Hunting for Trophy?

I agree and am also sick and tired of these guys who hunt with their wallets for bragging rights. A true trophy to me is any animal that you had to work for and makes you happy.

Click to expand...

AMEN! You probably know this, but in Texas, you can get a trophy if you can afford it. A managed south Texas lease like my wife's cousin has isn't cheap! But, ya know, he understands this, too. He isn't snooty about it. And, he doesn't waste meat. He won't shoot what I call a "meat deer", nothing, but what meets his standards. I don't begrudge him his fun. He has a heckuva trophy room. He's never hunted a small high fence operation, either. Those places somewhat sicken me. Like hunting in a zoo. The exotics are like friggin' pets in some of these places, like shooting your dog. But, that's another subject.

There are guided day hunts on places like the King or Kenedy ranches down here where they charge by the inch (antler inches) that can run 5 figures for a nice buck. They'll put you on one, the deer are managed on these ranches. Some ranches even have penned breeder stock, not just feeding programs and shooter standards, but genetic manipulation of the population. That's getting a bit carried away IMHO. Those places have HUGE bucks, but it ain't cheap...a pay to play thing for sure.

I just ain't THAT into it that I'd pay that kind of money for a "muy grande". I envy those out in the mountain states that can hunt public land with a chance at a nice one. The private land thing in Texas does kinda limit a working man's options. I don't think I'd care that much about it even if I could afford it, though. I'm happy taking an 8 point off my little place and filling the rest of my freezer with hogs.

35 Whelen said:

After having hunted for 30+ years, I'm finished trophy hunting. I'm also sick of hearing someone tell me they saw/shot a buck/bull that would score XXX points.

Click to expand...

I think I'll never be finished with trophy hunting because - at least for me - a trophy isn't a mount but the story behind it and the memories it stands for. Some have been lucky shots, others a result of literally weeks of stalking but ask me about any of them and you'll hear a story. I'm not much of a storyteller and I have a bad habit of boring people stiff but like I explained 'decorating walls with dead animals' to my teenage daughter: they're not just dead animals, they're living memories.

There's no number in existence, be it points, inches or whatever, that can describe what a trophy really means. Several years ago my son wanted a shoulder mount of a young, small impala with crooked asymmetrical horns. A camp meat kill. I protested for a minute until I realized that it was his first big game kill ever and it ment the world to him. Now it's on his wall and he is at least as proud of it as I am of any of my trophies. It's the whole experience that counts.

Man always hunts for trophy's, these are an expression of success.

Trophy job, trophy wife, trophy kids, trophy car, fail to see why this expression of individuality cannot be translated into hunting?

My problem with trophy hunting extends to that which one does not eat. Leopard, Lion, Hyena etc. But I am not hung up about this, each to his own. This side of the pond most species are carefully managed for sustainability, hunting is an industry that has it's stock like any other, and supply and demand will dictate price.

Trophy hunting is expensive. A Kudu bull sub 48" will cost in local currency R 5 000, you want over 60" then be prepared to pay in the order of R15 000. That meat right there is about 3X the price. The vast majority of hunters are meat gatherers, if the 60" was the same price as the 48" we would have no 60" bulls left so you see it is self regulating and self sustaining, the benefits go back into gamefarming. Commercial gamefarmers spend a lot of money buying good genes to keep the gene pool alive with trophy specimens.

With few exceptions, I generally cut off the front of the skull and nail the antlers on a garage beam. As said, memories. In a sense, those bucks are near-immortal, so long as my memory holds out.

As I sit here at the computer, I can look up from the monitor at a not-monster mule deer set of antlers. I could take you to where I shot him, twenty years ago. I recall the day, the circumstances.

Memories...

Some of those hunting TV shows give "trophy hunting" a bad wrap. I could see how someone who isn't familiar with hunting could get the impression that hunters travel all year long wontonly killing animals for trophy racks.

I've come accross poached animals where the racks have been hacked off and the only meat harvested is the backstraps. If that's what some non-hunters envision when they think of trophy hunters or hunters in general, they are way off base.

Me? I'd love to bag a "trophy" animal, but I hunt with the philosophy that a bird in the hand it worth 2 in the bush. I take the first clean shot on the first legal animal I see. I hunt mostly in wilderness areas or areas where vehicles are not permitted, and I'm sure as heck not going to spend hours or days hiking in only to pass up an animal because his rack wasn't big enough.

My dad and brother down in Texas hunt on private land and would lose their hunting priveledges if they shot a deer with anything less than an 8 point buck because down there is would be considered unethical. Different places have slightly different philospohys, but one thing that's pretty universal is that wasting meat is highly unethical.

My trophies are the freezer full of meat and the satisfaction of not having to buy meat.

Even the trophy hunters I know are repulsed by the idea of waste. The folks you hear about who just cut off the horns/antlers and leave the meat to rot are few and far between from my experience. They exist I'm sure, but I've never hunted with anyone like that.

Click to expand...

The only times I have seen that were in gun magazines where they have articles about someone going solo and then all you see is him packing out with the rack on his backpack and no sign of what happened to the meat. Especially true with sheep and goat hunters.

Do you think a "foul" is committed if a person hits a deer with their car and fails to try to harvest some of that deer meat?
I ask as 2038 deer were killed by cars in my county in 2011, and for a county that is a mere 496 square miles, that's 4 deer per square mile killed by cars. OH and 70% of the county is so densly populated, that no hunting is allowed.

We're not talking about decimation of a herd of Bison in the 19th century just for the hides and the tongues. Modern, trophy hunters do not normally, take a trophy deer every year. I don't think the animals are "going to waste", as the critters that feed on carcases, even if we don't like them, are part of the eco system, and have to eat too. Cars are killing a lot more deer and letting them lay for the buzzards and the foxes than hunters.

I hunt for meat, so when I'm not legally restricted on the sex of the deer to be harvested, whatever adult comes along is harvested to fill my freezer.

LD

Click to expand...

No, I don't think there's any foul when an animal is hit by an automobile and left on the side of the road. Whoever hits the deer accidentally may not be in any position to retrieve and process the animal. It's not like they went out to intentionally run over an animal. Accidents happen and while it sucks that a game animal was killed on the road, sometimes it is not avoidable.

Much of this is opinion, but to me it doesn't matter that we're not talking about the decimation of the buffalo herds. Killing an animal purely to display the antlers and allowing the meat to be eaten by predators repulses me. I realize not everyone thinks the way I do. And as has been said, people who do this are few and far between.

Also, in most states, doing that is illegal and I'm glad.

The only times I have seen that were in gun magazines where they have articles about someone going solo and then all you see is him packing out with the rack on his backpack and no sign of what happened to the meat. Especially true with sheep and goat hunters.

Click to expand...

I imagine the choice cuts are wrapped up in the hide and packed out as well, but it would be impossible for one man to pack it all out.
For that reason, I wouldn't solo hunt for sheep or goats.

No, I don't think there's any foul when an animal is hit by an automobile and left on the side of the road. Whoever hits the deer accidentally may not be in any position to retrieve and process the animal. It's not like they went out to intentionally run over an animal. Accidents happen and while it sucks that a game animal was killed on the road, sometimes it is not avoidable.

Click to expand...

Unless they've changed the law, processing road kill in Texas is illegal. You're supposed to call 911, they're supposed to send a game warden, and the warden handles the meat IIRC. Supposed to go to a food bank or something. That's the story I've heard, anyway. I know folks that have taken road kill and butchered it. I guess they gotta catch ya. I've FORTUNATELY not hit a deer nor witnessed one hit. Living where I am, now, I'm not sure how long that record will hold up. More deer than people around here for sure.

Yeah I guess if you're caught butchering a deer in your yard that would make folks suspicious of whether or not you're poaching or something.

I honestly don't know if Arkansas has a law about that or not. I don't think they do.

Art Eatman said:

I have a bit of difficulty about getting all exercised over the malbehavior of a miniscule percentage of any group. It's a waste of psychic energy.

14 million big game hunters in the US. I take it for granted that a very few are evil, bad-nasty idiots.

However, based on my acquaintance with quite a few hunters, these last fifty years, my opinion is that as a group, hunters are more ethical than most.

Click to expand...

I don't hunt because I don't need to and don't like it. BUT... the MAJORITY of those I know who do occasionally hunt... are evil, bad-nasty idiots... who waste the animals they kill.

Mike1234567 said:

I don't hunt because I don't need to and don't like it. BUT... the MAJORITY of those I know who do occasionally hunt... are evil, bad-nasty idiots... who waste the animals they kill.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate? I guess I'm asking if wasting the meat makes them the things you describe.

35W

35 Whelen said:

Can you elaborate? I guess I'm asking if wasting the meat makes them the things you describe.

35W

Click to expand...

Yes, they kill squirrels that are causing them no harm and let them rot where they fall. They kill hogs and let them rot where they fall... okay, wild hogs deserve it. But they kill deer and let them rot where they fall. They kill whatever they see for no good reason and let the carcasses rot where they fall. THAT is the MAJORITY of those I know who "hunt".

Tha twould upset me too. Shame that most of the hunters you know are that way.

35W

As for roadkilled deer,in Pennsylvania you call the Game commission,they give you permission to take the deer and its yours.I often drive 100 miles to a favorite hunting area in the fall.During the rut I see dead deer by the road in the dozens.Sometimes 3 or 4 in one spot hit by a semi.Most of them are there for days.This fall I saw a guy in orange dressing out a buck in the grass median on a 4 lane.

3212 said:

As for roadkilled deer,in Pennsylvania you call the Game commission,they give you permission to take the deer and its yours.I often drive 100 miles to a favorite hunting area in the fall.During the rut I see dead deer by the road in the dozens.Sometimes 3 or 4 in one spot hit by a semi.Most of them are there for days.This fall I saw a guy in orange dressing out a buck in the grass median on a 4 lane.

Click to expand...

I like and respect that... hunters who take the initiative to avoid wasted life.

Yes, they kill squirrels that are causing them no harm and let them rot where they fall. They kill hogs and let them rot where they fall... okay, wild hogs deserve it. But they kill deer and let them rot where they fall. They kill whatever they see for no good reason and let the carcasses rot where they fall. THAT is the MAJORITY of those I know who "hunt".

Click to expand...

That would infuriate me.
I am usually a "live and let live" kind of guy. I don't go poking my nose in business that isn't mine. However, I would report the people who did that to the G&F Commission immediately. That is against the law in Arkansas, as well as most other states.

It is against the law to waste the hindquarters, shoulders or backstraps of deer (I think that applies to rabbit and squirrels too) and is illegal to waste the breast of game birds. Penalties include fines and loss of hunting privileges.

As for the farm raised trophy deer.I am opposed to deer farming because it has helped spread CWD.

So long as all laws are followed, then I'm all for it.

If someone can afford to go to Africa and pay $30,000 to hunt lion legally as a trophy, then more power to him or her.

I didn't read any other posts, but Gallstones is right on. Very few people actually are purely sport hunters and waste all the meat, but those that do screw up the image of hunters for everybody else. Its kind of like guns. If guns weren't shown killing people and creating violence, than nobody would really have a negative view on them. There are far more leisurely, hunting, and self-defense uses for firearms than there are idiots who kill people with them. (excluding war)

Mike1234567 said:

I don't hunt because I don't need to and don't like it. BUT... the MAJORITY of those I know who do occasionally hunt... are evil, bad-nasty idiots... who waste the animals they kill.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be a smart*** here, seriously, but you need some new hunter friends.
People like that shouldn't be allowed to hunt. Or fish. Or breed.
Respecting life, be it for meat or trophy, is an essential component of hunting.

(This may be riddled with bad grammar. If so, sorry)

Trophy hunting in many places, especially Africa, is vital to the local economy. Nothing is wasted. And the money it costs to hunt these animals can be astronomical <also reintroduced to the economy. Some places as seen on TV like New Zealand, are farm raised animals that have been turned out a few days prior to the hunters flying in. How do I know? A close friend of mine is from New Zealand and she has family that does it. It's big business. She said its really sad to see "hunters" show up and be so proud that they shot such an impressive trophy. Most care less about the meat. They don't even eat it in camp. They just want to ship the head to their taxidermist.

Every year I come across at least 5 headless deer. Heck last year I came across 4 all lying next to each other. It made the local paper in fact.

Will I shoot a deer with a big rack? Absofrigginlutely. Have I? Idk. My biggest buck scored 130". But my trophies are measured by the memories I made with my friends while hunting. And we don't waste any meat.

Mike1234567,
Your "friends" aren't hunters. They are poachers. By ethics and by law. They are criminals.

Trophy hunting and "meat" hunting aren't somehow mutually exclusive. I enjoy the challenge of the sport, and if I were to simply take the first legal deer available to me, my seasons would be very short and unsatisfying. I typically get at least one "any deer" tag which means I can harvest one buck or doe, mule deer or whitetail (we have both). Most seasons, I could harvest a doe within minutes of shooting light. I don't like my season to be over that fast, and find absolutely no satisfaction in such a hunt. I have absolutely nothing against shooting does, and know its a necessary part of hunting in some areas. However, I like the challenge of hunting mature bucks, and despite what many people have told me over the years regarding bucks, I've never found the bucks I've shot to be any tougher or have poorer quality meat than any doe. Grain fed deer taste good, regardless of sex! If shooting a trophy somehow equated into wanton waste of meat, I'd certainly have an issue with it. If I eat my bucks, who is anyone to tell me I'm doing something wrong by challenging myself and holding out for something a bit above average? Often I also have a doe tag or two available to be filled. If I already have more meat than I can use, I sometimes use of of those tags, harvest a doe, and donate it to Sportsmen Against Hunger, who distribute it to food banks and needy families. I don't waste meat,and go out of my way on occasion to provide others with food they may not otherwise have....yet I consider myself a bit of a "trophy hunter" and darn right I hunt because I enjoy the "sport" of it,

I don't hunt because I don't need to and don't like it. BUT... the MAJORITY of those I know who do occasionally hunt... are evil, bad-nasty idiots... who waste the animals they kill.

Click to expand...

I'd reevaluate the company you keep if the MAJORITY of hunters you associate with behave in such a manner. 26 years of hunting, and I can honestly say aside from varmints and the like, I've never seen a game animal intentionally left to rot, which leads me to wonder what kind of POACHERS you hang out with.....lets use the right terminology.....the people you describe DO NOT deserve to be labeled as hunters. They are unethical POACHERS. Don't sully the name of actual hunters by lumping those sorts with the rest

Mike1234567 said:

BUT... the MAJORITY of those I know who do occasionally hunt... are evil, bad-nasty idiots... who waste the animals they kill.

Click to expand...

It makes my physically sick even reading that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with hunting, quite the opposite as hunting is the last and purest link to food chain we still have left. When someone kills for just the sake of killing, without taking the responsibility to make use of the game to his or her best ability, it's not hunting anymore.

Varmints aside, there's no excuse. Even with them and some game management or safety-related secondary gain kills (wolf, lynx, raccoon dog, mink...) it's good ethics and good practise to use whatever you can, be it hide, using the carcass as bait (when legal) or anything else you can think of.

To give your friends a probably undeserved benefit of a doubt, can you please elaborate about the waste, please?

To each his own. Maybe that`s why high fence hunting is so popular.

There are lots of folks who hunt, & lots of reasons for doing so. Almost without exception, the hunters I know are good stewards of the environment and the animals they hunt. Over the years, I have hunted with people who are wealthier than me, & can afford to go to places & have opportunities for trophies that are out of my reach. I have also hunted with people who have a lot less than I do (from a material perspective). They all hunt because they love it - maybe for different reasons.
It bothers me that so many are quick to label those that do not think the same way they do, or that shoot or hunt for a different set of reasons, or that are in a different socioeconomic situation, as bad or unethical people. As shooters and hunters, we have a lot in common. If we keep playing the game of "anyone who is not like me is evil or stupid" we play right into the hands of those who would deprive us of our second amendment rights.