It's 159,000,000 rounds

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I've always brushed these off as tin-foil stories...However, I once heard that these rounds purchased weren't FMJ, but hollow-points.

Do they train with hollow-points? It doesn't make sense. If true, it's a huge waste of money compared to a FMJ of equivalent grain.
 
I worked for the gov't for 30 years. The average citizen can not comprehend the waste that the gov't is responsible for. They don't however waste ammo. They just stockpile it.

The only reason people don't like the gov't buying ammo is they think the gov't created the ammo shortage. The truth is they have been buying ammo in the same amounts they always have.

The average shooter is now buying ammo and stockpiling it like the gov't.
 
The only reason people don't like the gov't buying ammo is they think the gov't created the ammo shortage. The truth is they have been buying ammo in the same amounts they always have.


Good to hear.
 
I know a lady that works for DHS. She gets two boxes of S&W .40 per month. she will MAYBE shoot a box per year. That's not much practice, is it.


Can a non-enthusiast shoot .40 through a (25 oz. polymer pistol?) well?

Maybe these people will be able to sell their ammo when it becomes surplus. Wishful thinking.
 
I'd like to see the yearly numbers for the armed forces...that number should shake up the tin foilers!
 
Isn't there a Federal training dept. that trains almost every Federal agency in firearms training? I don't have the figures of course but considering the training regime... qualification requirements...special operations training etc. there must be a tremendous amount of ammo going down range. MP-5s...type weapons...M-4 type weapons...exotic weapons...etc. must burn up several thousand rounds annually each per respective agent. And I'm sure there are more than a few agents that if like me if given keys to the ammo and armory rooms could personally rip through several tons of ammo a year. :D
 
I worked for the gov't for 30 years. The average citizen can not comprehend the waste that the gov't is responsible for. They don't however waste ammo. They just stockpile it.

Well, if they are just giving everyone two boxes a month, without requiring them to fire it...and those boxes are being taken home, sold, etc...and I am paying for that ammo, then I would say they are most certainly wasting it.
 
A friend who was on the Navy Rifle Team received a steady flow of whatever flavor of 5.56 or .223.
He retired from the NAVRES years ago and never used the extra 7,000 rds. of it. Some of what they shipped allowed him to break two records with the AR.

Do most of the staff in diverse DHS departments like to practice with their guns?

CoalTrain49: Purchased 3,000 rds. of Russian 7.62x39 within the last month. The order yesterday was because of the inability to find an original, lower-cost Saiga 5.45 rifle, possibly related to anticipated US reactions to last weekend's "cultural exchange program"
near the northern shores of the Black Sea.
 
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There is high demand for ammunition because the average recreational shooter got left at the altar during the first Obamascare. They didn't get too hurt by it as traditional cartridges weren't impacted much. But, they learned to be afraid, and the drumbeat from gun ownership groups had time to filter down to their casual level of attention. They paid more attention this time.

Once the casual shooter gets something in their mind, they stick with it. We continue to see high demand now because they changed their habits and there is no incentive to not keep buying ammo. It's part and parcel of being a gun owner to them. They aren't plugged in to the industry and don't get to hear the good news that would placate their feelings of concern. Since they are all buying ammo and they pretty much only communicate to each other, it's now a situation where they feed off of each other's fear.

When that happens, it's called a panic.

Like soccer fans leaving a burning stadium, they have a "me first" attitude about it. While there isn't any lethal stomping at the exits, the infighting with deadly credit cards and lining up at the most restrictive sources - like Walmart - continues to feed their concerns.

There is no "shortage" of ammunition, the .Gov isn't buying it up. What is really happening is the mass of casual shooters have exponentially increased demand beyond capacity. They are placing orders thru multiple vendors and scouring the retail landscape buying up every box they can so that they have "currency" to barter and trade in case there is a national shortage - or worse.

They perceive the problem to be that bad, and it's going to take a few seasons to calm them down. This administration isn't likely to offer much in the way of dropping the anti gun agenda, and will likely blunder from one hyped "crisis" into another to play the media. That's going to keep the hysteria fueled and the ammo buyers hungry.

Unintended consequences, for the most part, I doubt the gun grabbers saw it coming.

The next Presidential election is two years out, and considering the range of candidates, I see no letup. That's the gamble the ammo makers are weighing - expand now to sell more in 6-12 months, just to see the market collapse, or does it keep on? Past trends have all tapered off and the shift schedules went back to normal. Does this series of influences mean something different?

You could stare into a bowl of Chinese noodles and make as good a guess as any.
 
I've always brushed these off as tin-foil stories...However, I once heard that these rounds purchased weren't FMJ, but hollow-points.

Do they train with hollow-points? It doesn't make sense. If true, it's a huge waste of money compared to a FMJ of equivalent grain.

Yes, training with JHP has become increasingly more common than not, except for perhaps smaller local level agencies who don't get their ammo through large procurement contracts. It also helps diffuse concerns about training ammo being different than duty ammo.

When the ammo companies awarded contracts sell the JHP ammo at the same (or lower) cost as their typical FMJ ammo, it makes things simpler for both the manufacturers and the buyers when it comes to huge volume, multiple year procurement contracts.

Also, when you're talking about inventorying different loads for training & duty usage, it can save time & money at the agency/field office level to only have to inventory one type of load, especially if you're dealing with more than one caliber of handgun ammo.
 
It was common practice back in the day when Customs, Border Patrol and INS were separate to take whatever old ammo left over from the previous contract to the "dump" or the local gun store or home. The abuse was criminal if you ask me.

If the gov agency told them to take it to the "dump" and they instead took it home, I have no problem with it. This certainly wouldn't surprise me with the stupid, wasteful things I've seen our government do.
If they were just scheming and said they were taking it to the dump so they could stockpile it themselves, I agree that it should be criminal. In fact if that's the case and it were proven, I'm sure it would be deemed criminal.
 
To answer question on the shortage and what caused it, the answer is we, the shooting community caused it. The shooting community panicked after the last election on a decade old rumour that high taxes were going to be put on ammution. Then after. Sandyhook it was the fear of the gun ban. The shooting community started stock piling and hoarding ammunition and newbies started buying guns for fear they couldn't get them in the future. They also started buy ammo and were willing to pay what ever it cost to get ammo. The law of supply and demand kicked in and that is how we got to were we are today.
The Ammo manufactures have told us that the govt. is only getting what the they have contracted for, and as I understand it,the contracts were agreed upon before the panic.
Some of the threads on these forums talk about having thousands of rounds of ammo. That's more than most LGS carry in stock before the panic. Now we have shown the suppliers that we are willing to pay a high price, so those high prices will remain in effect now. The so called New Norm.
 
If the gov agency told them to take it to the "dump" and they instead took it home, I have no problem with it. This certainly wouldn't surprise me with the stupid, wasteful things I've seen our government do.
If they were just scheming and said they were taking it to the dump so they could stockpile it themselves, I agree that it should be criminal. In fact if that's the case and it were proven, I'm sure it would be deemed criminal.
I agree with you and why do these people need so much training shooting all this ammo? Are they at war and who with? I was hunting on state land and the troopers had a range there. I would say in an hour they fired ten thousand rounds. I was stunned and thought it was an endless loop tape playing. I left and they were still going at it.Why do they need to fire that many rounds?
 
To answer question on the shortage and what caused it, the answer is we, the shooting community caused it. The shooting community panicked after the last election on a decade old rumour that high taxes were going to be put on ammution. Then after. Sandyhook it was the fear of the gun ban. The shooting community started stock piling and hoarding ammunition and newbies started buying guns for fear they couldn't get them in the future. They also started buy ammo and were willing to pay what ever it cost to get ammo. The law of supply and demand kicked in and that is how we got to were we are today.
The Ammo manufactures have told us that the govt. is only getting what the they have contracted for, and as I understand it,the contracts were agreed upon before the panic.
Some of the threads on these forums talk about having thousands of rounds of ammo. That's more than most LGS carry in stock before the panic. Now we have shown the suppliers that we are willing to pay a high price, so those high prices will remain in effect now. The so called New Norm.
That's about it and the number of recent .22LR firearms purchases. Obama has got (not a political statement just an observation) everyone still jumpy. If we win the House and Senate (highly unlikely) but if we do, the market will start to stabilize after the ammo hungries feed out on the resulting new ammo buffet. Plus, it's a provable statistic there are a tremendous amount of new firearms being bought and they need to be fed. Again...many of those are 22LR purchases.
 
I hesitate to use the word "fear" as more like uncertainty for the future. Americans have a way of seeing past the Government proganda when their neighbors and family loose their jobs or they are directly impacted.

For the first time the media is comparing Obama and the economy to the Carter era (the peanut farmer President).

However the data that Sam Cade and myself posted clearly show a reduction in ammunition purchases which is the point of the thread.
 
It's a matter of public record.

I've seen figures that estimate the ammunition training requirements (for the DHS) at in excess of 100,000,000 per annum.

To put things in perspective, if every FBI special agent shoots their 60 round qualifier twice that is nearly 2,000,0000 rounds.
To follow on that thought ....

When you break it down to how many per individual, it comes out to just a few thousand. That isn't a lot of rounds per year per person to practice and qualify with.
 
Does this DHS/Ammo hoarding silliness ever end?

Clearly not :banghead::banghead::banghead:
There is probably small army of people buying up Russian & Ukrainian ammo now. AKMs, Nagants,.....from Russia will probably disappear into private closets too.
 
OK....and what are they gonna do with ALL that ammo? Use it on us??? We the People?
I don't trust it for a minute...I too work for the state govt.....they are buying up a bunch too....
 
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