A gun is pointed at you. What next?

Do three backflips and karate kick the gun out of the bad guys hand. Then pick up their gun and proceed.

In the movies and TV, a person who is facing a cold-blooded killer can always talk to the bad guy and either persuade him/her to put down the gun or keep him/her talking until the good guys show up and take care of the situation.

In the movies and TV. In reality, if someone wants to kill you, they go ahead and do it, they don't discuss philosophy, or morality, or whether they were abused as a child.

Just bang.

And you have no chance.

Jim

There is a good video on the tube that I watch once or twice a year, Resist by bigdad06. Personally, if I definitely thought they were going to try and kill me, I would resist. Their gun may not be loaded. The safety may be on. They may hesitate, jerk the trigger, or fumble. IMO, better to die trying to save the frickin day than to die with your hands in the air or tied behind your back. Once again, just what I would do, not what I demand others do.

I reckon the very first thing would be to MOVE!!!!! Down or right or left anywhere except where you are at that time..........after that either keep moving or take your chances engaging the baddy

I would "try" to disengage if possible. If they want the car, fine. I'm insured. If the opportunity presents itself, present them with a face full of lead, but if not, it's better to retreat to fight another day. Just my .02.

If close enough to grapple/deflect/control the attacker I would do that while drawing. At bad breath distance and he has the drop on me? I'm going for his gun and to break that joint or at least push it off target/move off center while drawing.

If too far away to control him I'd move laterally while drawing and shoot while moving. He better be pretty good at hitting a moving target in about 1.5 seconds or less. You didn't say you were in a car, did you?

Move. Always move first, fast, and laterally to cover if possible. If he's that close go for the joints and the face with the head butt thing while drawing pistol or knife and let it fly. That'd be the way I train - that'd be the way I'd fight.

VooDoo

Is he close enough for me to rip the gun off target and MOVE and let fly with my ESEE and move and some knees and elbows and move and strikes? then that's what I do. Main thing being surprise, speed, and violence of action.

If he's outside of closing and striking distance, I MOVE. And move. and move until I am close enough to cut the gun out of his hands, hopefully giving enough time for innocents or family to get out of there no matter what happens to me.

If I get to have my carry license and my gun? MOVE and draw and shoot all while I don't stop moving. Stop firing when everyone is safe or I'm on the other side.

I'd always act, even if death is near certain for me. I'm not leaving the fate of anyone up to people who have chosen evil, if I take a few bullets and die in the process, I'll be in heaven. It's the innocents and family behind me I'd be worried about.

Police training tip (supposedly) told to me a while back. The closest thing to you is the gun. Punch it with all your might. If it's an auto it may rack the slide open and jam the gun. It will certainly catch the bad guy off guard, and it may knock the gun free. Either way it's going to reaim the gun to a point of aim other than your left nostril. The backwards force also makes it hard to pull the trigger (supposedly)(durn sure I don't want to try it to prove it)In the commotion you should be doing the move very affectionately referred to as the "****-n-git" until you are out of harms way and can draw your weapon to continue your "conversation" on a leveled playing field should the need to do so arise.

I was taught - by two different men, two different occasions, and when I was a part of two very different audiences (one LE academy, one private class that focused on UOF justification) - that running from an attacker, while not necessarily always the best option, usually results in a would-be victim who was not shot; either because the attacker didn't shoot at all, or the attacker shot and missed. Apparently there's a statistic that goes along with this that suggests the average shooter will miss his target something like 75% of the time when his target is moving (eg, making a run for it).

Jim K said:

In reality, if someone wants to kill you, they go ahead and do it, they don't discuss philosophy, or morality, or whether they were abused as a child. Just bang. And you have no chance.

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Is this your way of suggesting that if someone is pointing a gun at you, and he hasn't pulled the trigger yet, that he doesn't intend to do it (unless provoked otherwise, etc) at all? I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it sounds like this is what you're driving toward.

If so, I disagree. I have no experience or case studies to suggest otherwise; it just sounds risky to hold this perspective as a general rule.

If I hold the perspective you seem to be arguing for, and I find myself facing a MWAG, it would be reasonably to conclude that he means me no harm, and only wants something from me, whether money, my car, whatever. If I'm wrong about his intent, I'm essentially digging my own grave by doing what he asks me to do.

On the other hand, if a MWAG is planning to shoot me, but hasn't done so yet, the best thing I can do (assuming we aren't standing face-to-face at bad-breath distance) is make an effort to run. I mean, if the alternative is taking a bullet to the head with my hands in the air, it's a no-brainer (no pun intended).

So where do we stand?

1. Gamble, hoping the guy isn't planning to shoot you, and do what he asks.
2. Make an effort to run.
3. Fight back.

I'm going with option two or three. Which one depends on my position relative to the MWAG, which way we're both facing, etc.

In the scenario posed by the OP, running would be the best option. You're extremely unlikely to beat a guy on the trigger if he already has a gun drawn on you when you're alerted to the danger, so reaching for your gun would be roughly equivalent to suicide if the MWAG is totally focused on you. Further, his FOV is severely limited by being inside the van. You're obviously not going to outrun the vehicle, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think you could get to some sort of cover by moving laterally in relation to your attacker, and then go from there.

It just depends, but the options are basically limited and there are definitely wrong answers.

We in the gun community have the distinct advantage of knowing various handguns or longguns, their capabilities, etc. Observe the weapon. Can you see if it's unloaded or the safety engaged, or no round in the chamber? For instance, is the revolver cylinder mostly empty? Is the Springfield XD loaded chamber indicator showing empty? Is there a magazine in the pistol or rifle? Is the safety on? Does the shooter look experienced or novice? A novice shooter may not have the accuracy or knowledge how to operate the weapon. A bolt gun, pointed at you from 4 feet away, makes a poor weapon for the aggressor. A pistol may not have a magazine, or may be a model with a magazine disconnect - maybe you can get the mag release button in a struggle.

Us this information to your advantage.

I wouldn't do anything to provoke my death in an otherwise hostage situation, nor would I aid in making the situation worse. For instance if your carjacker just wants the car, give him the keys and walk away. If he wants you in the trunk of the car, odds are you're going to die a horrible death. So that's when you fight back.

Or, if the restaurant robbery wants to take everyone to the back room, that's when you fight back.

Obviously your time is up if they start popping hostages or take other violent acts above the hostage taking.

You can't always run, because family/friends/others hostages will die.

If you're going to attack, seek the most opportune time, cause a distraction, look past the shooter and do a headfake so-to-speak, etc. Violence of action - step inside the outstretched gun, strike to the throat as hard as you can, wrap up the gun, punch/strike the gun wrist from the top or inside as hard as possible, stomp on the top of the feet as hard as you can, strike solarplexus, etc. Move to the outside arc of the gunhand (harder for a right handed shooter to fire to the right than to the left), move, engage, move behind, etc.

Obviously, if you have a gun fight back at the soonest safe opportunity.

If you can escape/evade safely without endangering other hostages, imagine you are the shooter. Run in non-symmetrical pattern, take concealment, duck, etc. Distance and objects are your friend.

It would be wrong to do nothing or freeze and panic in the face of certain death, or when the situation goes from nervous robber or hostage taker, to murderer. I am puzzled when I see, particularly in the middle east, these civilians who just do nothing and are lined up and shot - they don't run, fight back, or whatever. They just give up.

leadcounsel, I agree with much of what you're saying, but it isn't difficult to imagine that if you wait until things seem to be going south, it could be too late to fight back. For instance, say you're standing in line in the bank and gunmen poor in. It's pretty darn likely they didn't go in their for you, but for the money. So obviously you have no reason to draw attention to yourself; just let them do their thing, get their money, and roll out.

Uh oh, a security guard or armed civi shot one of the robbers before he was taken out. Now they're pissed and delayed - cops are en route, you can hear the sirens already. Now they want everyone together in a back room. Seems like they're shifting to hostage mode. Odds are they now have all eyes on the group to ensure nobody makes an effort to fight. Probably way too late to fight back now.

Yeah, it's a pretty big what if, but that's the entire topic of this thread. I'm just spitballing. I hate to say "always resist," and I definitely wouldn't say "never resist;" but given this hypothetical scenario, which is specific but not ridiculously far-fetched, maybe it makes sense to work in absolutes when it comes to being victimized.

I actually had a similar dream...several times. My place of business was burglarized and burned after hours several years back. They never caugcouldn't criminal and started me on the path of firearms.

I oanother ve a dream where I am behind the counter and a guy pokes his head in the door asking if we arm open. I see him eyeball me and the situation before pulling a nickel plated semi auto and packing it in my face. I can't reach for my gun. It is either concealed deeply or under my counter out of reach.

That said, I don't think it's a nightmare about being armed or unarmed. I think it has more to do with anxiety due to a lack of situational awareness.

In a real situation, compliance as long as they have the advantage of distance on me. I am not faster than a speeding bullet. That said, I hope to have the presence of mind to observe the gun and shooter to determine if I am being robbed with a BB gun.

I have a customer who is a martial artist instructor who taught me a few feigning techniques. During a conflict, you put up a submissive stance and try to talk your way out of it. Defuse and evade. Live another day. However, those hands up in face are a trap if it escalates.
I am a physically fit 195# 33 year old. This gentleman is 30 years my senior. He mopped the floor with me while showing me these techniques. I couldn't hurt this guy if i tried.

While I would never rely on this, I am grateful to have a last ditch way to break away and maybe get a hand on my carry piece.

Fiv3r said:

I am a physically fit 195# 33 year old. This gentleman is 30 years my senior. He mopped the floor with me while showing me these techniques. I couldn't hurt this guy if i tried.

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I'm a physically fit 58 year old....20 years professional martial arts instructor. If there is *one* thing I can tell you that will increase your odds when you are attacked it is simply this: Train

Remain physically fit and in decent weight. Walk regularly, shoot regularly, eta well and keep yourself fit. Challenge yourself physically, mentally and spiritually. No one has a chance to save themselves if they have let themselves get "3 sheets to the wind"...

VooDoo

"Get off the X". That is, move from the place where the muzzle and the potential shooters immediate attention is.

Fight or flight. Which one best serves my needs at the moment? Alone, I'd probably choose to get far from there in a hurry. With my family, that's not an option so i fight while they escape.

Change my skivvies. And call the law and lawyer.

Who knows, maybe your next situational dream/encounter will have a better ending. Or, don`t eat hot pepper before bed time.

there is a technique taught by some that if you are within grasping distance of the gun, you can make a move for the muzzle. There is a 90% likelihood the gun will be in the right hand of the attacker, so you'd want to use your right-hand to cross and grasp around the muzzle with your thumb going under the gun and hand over the top and pushing to your left, while rotating your hips and body sideways (out of the line of fire). Never cover the muzzle, but continue to put pressure towards the outside which can eventually break the grip of the attacker on the gun and/or bend/trap his finger in the guard. Once the muzzle has been cleared, you have your left hand for a follow-up immediate attack (eye strike). Then disengage.

This is a very risky technique. The attacker may well try to or successfully shoot you while you attempt to execute it. The attacker may re-establish range so that you cannot grasp the gun. I would not try it unless my back was against a literal wall.

Better off making a run for it.

Interesting and thoughtful post here:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...raining/113418-drawing-against-drop-datd.html

One other consideration is that in a tense situation, even well-trained people miss shots. Soldiers and police shooting videos show that shooters miss.

Figure your average thug with a pistol probably isn't trained. He may shoot one handed or gangsta style. Maybe he loaded the bullets backward. Maybe the safety is on. Maybe he'll close his eyes when he shoots. The gun maybe a Bryco Jennings and unreliable.

As we all know the gun isn't a magic death ray. Sure it's lethal and dangerous, but keep your cool and think your way out of the situation. Sometimes that may be negotiating and patience, sometimes violence of action and initiative. And it may go from the first to the latter in a split second. When you commit to violence, go 100% until it's over.

If you are in northern Georgia, the gang members might be undercover police. That's what happened to Rev. Jonathan Ayers in 2009.

NOMI WASP said:

Do three backflips and karate kick the gun out of the bad guys hand. Then pick up their gun and proceed.

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No no no... just one back flip will do while kicking the gun out of their hand. I prefer to flip over their head a hit them from behind with my feet as I flip over them.

Realistically, if they have the drop on you and are not dumb enough to get close I suggest giving them your money.

But if they do get close enough to grab, there are several good techniques you can use to disarm if you can get them distracted. Getting them to talk is one good way to distract.

Deaf

Get in as close as you can?? cry beg offer cash tell about your sick cat anything to get close enough to grab that gun push away from being shot twist that gun around hard use a knee or ram with your body . tear that trigger finger off. Then dial 911 while you beat the guy senseless with his gun ..

If someone has the jump on you with a gun, and it isn't yet being fired at you, your choices are still roughly the same as they always are:

1) Comply
2) Run
3) Fight

No one can teach you how to win in a CQB situation in an Internet post. If you're planning to survive by fighting the assailant for his gun, you'll probably need skills that have been repeatedly practiced over the years (or a fair degree of luck). If you go for your own gun you'll need to assess your chances of survival in doing so. But, if it ever comes to that remember to act decisively, and commit to action when you decide to make your move. If you run, screaming and running a random zig-zag pattern could help.

Around here you may as well pull your gun & fire as most of the savages we have around here will shoot you after they take your money or your gun.

tuj said:

there is a technique taught by some that if you are within grasping distance of the gun, you can make a move for the muzzle. There is a 90% likelihood the gun will be in the right hand of the attacker, so you'd want to use your right-hand to cross and grasp around the muzzle with your thumb going under the gun and hand over the top and pushing to your left, while rotating your hips and body sideways (out of the line of fire). Never cover the muzzle, but continue to put pressure towards the outside which can eventually break the grip of the attacker on the gun and/or bend/trap his finger in the guard. Once the muzzle has been cleared, you have your left hand for a follow-up immediate attack (eye strike). Then disengage.

This is a very risky technique. The attacker may well try to or successfully shoot you while you attempt to execute it. The attacker may re-establish range so that you cannot grasp the gun. I would not try it unless my back was against a literal wall.

Better off making a run for it.

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I was instructed to use my left hand to push the muzzle aside (grabbing the gun) while twisting body away. If you are more or less squared up and they have it in their right hand, your left hand has a shorter distance to travel before getting to it than your right hand.

Also, if you are carrying yourself, if you can get the gun out of their hands, or start to wrangle over it, you can continue to do that, or hold their gun, in your left hand while drawing your gun with your right hand.