Montana Hiking Gun Poll

This is a debate that I have seen before and will likely see again. I usually carry my G22 with 180 grain gold dots. This was my duty gun for the last 10 of my 22 years with the PD. It will do everything I need it to do if I do my part. I also take bear spray with me because I have had a chance to be up close and personal with a few black bears and a couple of griz.... To be honest people any handgun seems really small to me when you are close to a griz. Those da** griz are really big when compared to a bullet. I have slowly backed up the trail a few times to avoid bears and sooooo far things have worked out for me. Personally for me I would only shoot if my spray didn't work. Just my thoughts from the Big Sky Country. Be safe all.

Sergei Mosin said:

The guy on the Mark 51 director, not shown.

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So the 40 was power driven and no one sits on the seats anymore?

Deaf

I would go with the 10mm Glock. No need for super-potent ammo though, why give the gun a short functional life?

Deaf Smith said:

So the 40 was power driven and no one sits on the seats anymore?

Deaf

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Generally speaking, yes. That photo was taken aboard HORNET (CV-12) in 1945. HORNET, like most ships of the era, was fitted with several Mark 51 directors, each of which could control a group of 40mm guns (or 5-inch guns if necessary.) Both train and elevation could be remotely controlled in power by the director; the hand wheels and the sights on the mount were for local control. The trainer sat to the right of the guns, the pointer to the left. In the photo, part of the train power drive can be seen below the trainer's footrests.

The quad mount had a crew of eleven - gun captain, pointer, trainer, four first loaders, and four second loaders. In this photo we can see the four first loaders (they are the men feeding four-round clips directly into the guns), two of the second loaders (they are the men passing ammunition to the first loaders), the trainer, and the mount captain. The mount captain appears to be screaming at the trainer, probably telling him to quit watching the battle and sit down!

My shooting uddy goes on a hiking / camping trip
each summer with his brother. A few years ago
they got a warniing of bear activity in the area
They were in the N. Idaho Panhandle He was
carrying his Glock 19 and later told me he felt
a bit undergunned.

I told him I once read of the Danish Army choice
for 2 man teams they put on the greenland Ice
to boserve/cenesus Polar bears and other wildlife.
They are each armed with a .30-06 Bolt Action
rifle and a Glock 20.

I live in SE Wash state just 8 miles from Moscow
Idaho pop. 24K? home of U of Idaho. At least a
couple times a year a Moose will wander into town.
& that happened here in Pullman WA. as well, dumb
Moose was hanging out in a backyard. F&G takes
care of them We do have Cougar sightings, and
some have been taken. Last fall a local farmer shot
a gray wolf. No charges were filed. They're protected
and it wasn't attacking livestock.

Get a Glock 20 - it'll be lighter than an Ruger Alaskan
& practice shooting it with loads you'll carry.

Sergei Mosin said:

Generally speaking, yes. That photo was taken aboard HORNET (CV-12) in 1945. HORNET, like most ships of the era, was fitted with several Mark 51 directors, each of which could control a group of 40mm guns (or 5-inch guns if necessary.) Both train and elevation could be remotely controlled in power by the director; the hand wheels and the sights on the mount were for local control. The trainer sat to the right of the guns, the pointer to the left. In the photo, part of the train power drive can be seen below the trainer's footrests.

The quad mount had a crew of eleven - gun captain, pointer, trainer, four first loaders, and four second loaders. In this photo we can see the four first loaders (they are the men feeding four-round clips directly into the guns), two of the second loaders (they are the men passing ammunition to the first loaders), the trainer, and the mount captain. The mount captain appears to be screaming at the trainer, probably telling him to quit watching the battle and sit down!

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Thanks. I've read some more on it. Range set to 5000 yds fixed. Cage the gyro till enemy plane is in sights then release gyro as you smoothly track the target.

Might just work on bear if they would set the range a bit closer.

And you know, you might just be right, he was screaming at that man.

Deaf

For those that think you need to carry a heavy hitter to deal with the remote possibility of running into a bear, I refer you to this after action report by Massad Ayoob regarding the mass release of Lions, Tigers, Bears etc... A couple years ago in Zanesville OH, about an hour or so south of my home:

http://americanhandgunner.com/lions-and-tigers-and-bears-for-real/

Mostly LEO duty weapons & issue ammo were used to kill about 50 animals with 165gr .40 S&W working on a big black bear.......2 shots....one a finisher. The LEO did what he needed to do with a sub-optimum weapon & load. But it was enough to do the job when placed properly.

Not that I don't have & love some big bore heavy hitters, but for hiking weight matters. A smaller bore gun weights less, as does it's ammo. And truthfully, most any common handgun cartridge 9mm on up with good ammo should suffice for the majority of vermin that one might encounter in much of the country. The closest call I ever had in the woods (local park actually) was with two huge dogs off their leash who were very interested in snacking on my little pup..and maybe me too. Luckily the owner got them rounded up but it was pretty dicey for awhile.

For those that think you need to carry a heavy hitter to deal with the remote possibility of running into a bear, I refer you to this after action report by Massad Ayoob regarding the mass release of Lions, Tigers, Bears etc...

Mostly LEO duty weapons & issue ammo were used to kill about 50 animals with 165gr .40 S&W working on a big black bear.......2 shots....one a finisher. The LEO did what he needed to do with a sub-optimum weapon & load. But it was enough to do the job when placed properly.

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Using lighter calibers in non-defensive situations on unexcited or non agitated animals that arent charging is quite different than stopping one with ill intent. It doesnt really equate. A 40 is likely enough for many difficult situations, but there are certainly better choices. When discussing it with people that have shot a number of larger animals in a variety of situations, the comments I've heard about service caliber handguns rounds and loads (like hollow points) hasnt been very complimentary.

Tomrkba;

I'm somewhat amused by the very few people posting who actually live in Griz country and have experience vs the large number of postings from other people. Myself, for your stated purpose, the GP100 is a no-brainer. I probably wouldn't even bother with buying the ammo unless you've already got it on hand. Under the conditions you've set forth, the chances of an encounter are pretty rare. Somebody would have to do something really rather stupid to promote an attack. But, if there are females in your group, and one/some might be in menses, don't let 'em go 30 yards away to be well hidden while changing out. That would qualify as really rather stupid.

When hunting elk in griz territory I do carry a large handgun, but the bear's do know that the dinner bell sounds like a shot. When I'm just out, it's a .357 and I'm not worried at all.

I do live in Montana, have lived for many years in Wyoming also. I also live rural and in bear and elk territory. When I was much younger, and dumber, I did get to meet a bear bad-breath close. Armed with a 20 gauge single shot shotgun, hunting grouse, I, believe it or not, managed to survive without annoying the bear or dropping the gun. Before bear spray became readily available too.

900F

I live and recreate daily in grizzly country and have for the last 15 yrs or so.

Crappy picture of my two current carry guns (tried, unsuccessfully, to enhance w/photobucket). The Kahr CW45 is loaded with 255gr LFN Buffbore and is carried in my left front pocket. The S&W L Frame M69 .44 Mag is loaded with 260gr WFNGCs over a hefty charge of H110 and is carried strong side in a Simply Rugged Sourdough Pancake.



Over time I've carried every load you mention above (except 9mm) and several not on your list (Heavy .45 Colt, .480 Ruger Alaskan, .475 Linebaugh FA83) and have settled on the two pictured above.

I say pick what ever gun you are most comfortable with and shoot the best. Unless of course you want to buy a new one .

I figure that if I have to shoot a bear (to be avoided at all costs), it will be at contact range. This will allow me to make the best possible shot and might help mitigate potential legal entanglements.

Just my opinion of course.

Paul

paul105 said:

I live and recreate daily in grizzly country and have for the last 15 yrs or so.

Crappy picture of my two current carry guns (tried, unsuccessfully, to enhance w/photobucket). The Kahr CW45 is loaded with 255gr LFN Buffbore and is carried in my left front pocket. The S&W L Frame M69 .44 Mag is loaded with 260gr WFNGCs over a hefty charge of H110 and is carried strong side in a Simply Rugged Sourdough Pancake.



Over time I've carried every load you mention above (except 9mm) and several not on your list (Heavy .45 Colt, .480 Ruger Alaskan, .475 Linebaugh FA83) and have settled on the two pictured above.

I say pick what ever gun you are most comfortable with and shoot the best. Unless of course you want to buy a new one .

I figure that if I have to shoot a bear (to be avoided at all costs), it will be at contact range. This will allow me to make the best possible shot and might help mitigate potential legal entanglements.

Just my opinion of course.

Paul

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My God!

Could a better "bear gun" be devised? Methinks not. VERY nice revolver you have Paul!!!

"Could a better "bear gun" be devised?"

Yup. They were a couple decades ago.

dickydalton said:

"Could a better "bear gun" be devised?"

Yup. They were a couple decades ago.

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But I bet Paul's model 69 ain't so heavy by days end.

Fella's;

And that quad mount 40mm Bofors was known in the day as a "Chicago Piano".

900F

the dual 40mm Bofors on a track chassis was called a Duster and was the most awesom jungle weapon I saw!

And that quad mount 40mm Bofors was known in the day as a "Chicago Piano".

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No the 1.1"/75 (28 mm) Mark 1 and Mark 2 was known as that.

Deaf

Even though cannons are cool, let's keep this focused on handguns please.

There's nothing in Montana that the buffalo bore 180 gr. hard cast round can't handle. I've lived here for 29 years and have yet to run across anything that couldn't be stopped with that round.

Cooldill said:

But I bet Paul's model 69 ain't so heavy by days end.

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Maybe so but, I'll trade 3 oz more(including another round) for the extra shot in bear country.

I can lose that much weight watering the bushes.

If you guys are worried about 5 or 10 ounces of weight of a gun...

Go on a diet and lose FIVE POUNDS.

I have no doubt everyone here can lose far more weight than the difference between a Ruger Super Redhawk .454 and a S&W 329PD.

Deaf

Not for me. I'm 99.9% body fat.

Jk! If I were to lose that much fat, I could carry a brace of Model 500s and not be overburdened!!

OP, what have you chosen?

Weight is a big factor when hiking. I have a 686 4 inch, a ruger 45 colt 4.xx bbl, and a g10. The g10 wins with the right combo of power and weight and rounds. The 45 colt with ruger only loads is quite a bit more powerful, but weight matters. If I was hiking more than 5 miles, I'd consider only 8 to 10 rounds in the g20 for weight savinfs.

Weight is a big factor when hiking.

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Believe it.

You can spot a novice hiker every time by the amount of useless crap they carry. Me, I like to hold the weight to 25 lbs, and I can spend a week on the trail with a pack of that weight.

Vern Humphrey said:

Believe it.

You can spot a novice hiker every time by the amount of useless crap they carry. Me, I like to hold the weight to 25 lbs, and I can spend a week on the trail with a pack of that weight.

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But Vern, what about the guys that (allegedly) hike with several 15-round back-up magazines and half a dozen quick-clot bandages....just in case?

I guess the lesson to learn is that when asking advice, give the suggestions of the people who actually DO it more weight than the rest. Which is why I usually ask the asker to define what 'hiking' or 'camping' mean to them.

Revolver will case the least 'disturbance' I'd go with that