Deciding on a Concealed Carry Gun

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I work in law enforcement and have carried on and off duty every day for 14 years. My best advice for you if you plan on carrying most of the time is to go small. Go with something small enough to carry comfortably. It also depends on how big a person you are. I am 5 foot 6 and 155 lbs. I have at least ten holsters and unless I wear a button up shirt and do not tuck it in there is no way I can completely conceal my Glock 19 comfortably. So what I end up doing is carrying a small .380 everywhere I go. Sometimes I carry it in my front pocket but most of the time I carry it small of the back with no holster. I never keep a bullet in the chamber off duty and I can draw, rack and shoot almost as fast as I can draw and shoot so I feel much safer carrying off duty without a round in the chamber. Small of the back with a small gun is very comfortable to me, even more comfortable than my glock in a very expensive holster. That being said if I go into a school or movie theatre or crowded place I resort to carrying my glock with a button up shirt, untucked. The M&P Shield is a nice small 9 mm that won't break the bank and is reliable. Kel Tecs are reliable if you use nickel cased ammo. Mine can jam sometimes with cheap target ammo in brass cases. It never jams with Hornady self defense ammo. It doubletaps very reliably with that ammo. Good luck.
 
For me, reliability and corrosion resistance are primary factors.

In my experience, CCW has been a 17 year work in progress, and is constantly being refined. I rusted a handgun, initially. Then I discovered that leather holsters drag when I draw and are difficult to re-holster. After moving to kydex, I discovered that one piece holsters have a stress riser at the clip, and break with frequent use, so I look for a rubber mounted clip now. Etc.. Etc..

Printing IMO, is not too big a concern. Nobody has ever noticed. Just take reasonable precautions. IE, don't sit in an open back bar-stool with your back to the aisle.

Above all, make sure your sidearm functions reliably with whatever Gucci defensive ammo you select. I have co-workers, cops, who qualified with FMJ, were issued Speer Gold Dots, and carried GDs for a year before finding out their 1911 wouldn't cycle them. I personally had a 9mm in the 1990s that wouldn't cycle 115gr Corbons JHPs. So field test your ammo of choice before a real test arrives.

Don't think of this decision as a final answer, because undoubtedly you'll refine your tools and techniques as time goes.
 
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Spats,

Thank you for the links about folks open carrying being disarmed. I read the stories in each link and make note of the following;

The first link you posted the person was open carrying the gun occurred on October 4, 2014 @ 2:00 am. This incident was discussed at length on THR and it was never determined if the victim was open carrying for self-defense or was just carrying the gun to another location.

The second incident that occurred on 4-15-15 @ 3:30 am a woman was sitting in her car with a gun in plain view in the center console of her car talking to someone standing outside her car. The guy simply reached through the open window and took the gun. I don't consider having a gun laying in plain view in a view the same as carrying on body.

In the third incident which occurred six years ago at 4:00 am the victim was robbed in a parking lot.

The common factor in all three incidents is they occurred late at night; 2:00 am, 3:30 am and 4:10 am. The circumstances surrounding incidents 1 & 2 are unusual to say the least. A woman talking to a guy on the street at 3:30 am may have been working (amen!) or looking to buy drugs.

For someone that is against open carry will use any incident no matter how bizarre to support their position. Other folks might be more inclined to say stay out of bad areas late at night.
 
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BSA1: I merely provide those as evidence that OCers do occasionally have their guns stolen. Doesn't mean that it happens a lot or that the OC'ers in the stories were very prudent.

Nonetheless, let's not derail the thread any further.
 
Although not a veteran CCW holder as some are here, I was one of the first 100 people in my state to obtain the Ohio CHL in 2004. In that time, I've learned many things. Here are a few:

1) people don't notice you have a gun....stop worrying about it...you will at first though.
2) good belt, good holster as stated a million times already
3) for me, width matters more than length or even weight to a point
4) if it's uncomfortable, you won't carry it enough
5) find that gun that you can shoot well. It matters.
6) practice with your carry gun every time you go to the range
7) practice drawing and firing if allowed. If not, practice shooting from low ready up to your firing position....take some courses.


In my 11.5 years of legal carry, I've carried a number of great guns....none of which were perfect:
Walther PPK
Smith 642
Smith CS9
CZ PCR
HK P30SK
Beretta 84F
American Derringer Model 1
Glock 19
Glock 26
Sig P239
Walther PPS

I'm sure I'm missing some.

My favorite is the Walther PPS by a long shot. Shoots as well as my full-size guns, incredibly thin, and packs more than most revolvers. I highly recommend. They have also just dropped in price from nearly $600 just a few years ago to currently around $380 at Budsguns http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...21_55/products_id/84621/Handguns/Walther+Arms.
 
CCW choice is an evolutionary thing and choices all turn out to be compromises.
I want a 600 Nitro pocket gun that holds 30 rounds, sounds and kicks like a 22lr and has olympic target pistol accuracy. Since I haven't found one yet, I've compromised with a Glock G26 during warm months and a 1911 in cooler months. It's way to big to conceal in my summer speedo attire.

The other thing you need to decide on is action type.
 
I'm going to assume the OP is reading all the replies. I've got to throw my dos centavos in here in response to a post.

Don't "go small". Get a handgun that is indeed small enough to conceal, but big enough to use well. Size is a secondary consideration. It's a tool meant to be used in a fight to protect yourself, not a fashion accessory.

Don't carry an empty gun. Some people indeed ascribe to the "Israeli method", but most experienced handgunners will tell you it's at best inconvenient and at worst foolhardy.

Search to forums here for small of the back carry. Some injuries to the spine have been reported and a few doctors here have explained how severe the injuries can be due to falling on a lump of metal on your spine.
 
How much does width affect carry? My finalists vary from .9in to 1.2in wide. Should width affect my evaluation?

Yes, because thinner is more comfortable and easier to conceal. But you should choose whatever you are most comfortable when shooting because if you need to shoot, you need to shoot as accurately as possible and make that shooting as easy for you as possible.

Is printing illegal itself, just plain bad, or merely undesirable?

It's undesirable, the entire point of concealed carry is so no one knows you're carrying just by looking at you.

How much does weight affect carry? My list varies from 17oz to 26oz unloaded. Should weight affect my evaluation?

Weight mitigates recoil and yes, the heavier the gun, the more you will feel it when carrying it. Generally, with 9mm, the lighter the gun, the better for carrying, the heavier, the better for shooting. You just need to find the middle ground, but I think weight is key.

Anything else?

Capacity is everything. Single stack 9mm's are better than single stack .40's and .45's, but they're far from 10-12 round doublestack 9's that have been the backbone of the CCW market for 20+ years. Unless I'm looking for extreme comfort and concealability, there's no 9mm better than Glock 26. It takes every 9mm magazine starting from 10 rounders all the way up to the 33 round Glock 18 mags. That's versatility you can't beat and it's nice that those mags are usually $15 cheaper than the single stack magazines that people are getting robbed on.
 
How much does width affect carry? My finalists vary from .9in to 1.2in wide. Should width affect my evaluation?
Slimmer will be easier, especially depending on clothing, but main difficulty is the grip length
sticking out and printing.

Is printing illegal itself, just plain bad, or merely undesirable?
Depends on your local, both legally and practically. Pro gun state rural area nobody may care, anti gun city cop thinks you may be carrying it could be a problem even if the letter of the law is on your side. I know in Florida it isn't illegal yet is a constant topic on forums by new carriers worried about it. Don't worry about it too much unless it's excessive/obvious or illegal in your area. Find your states definition of exactly what "concealed" means.

How much does weight affect carry? My list varies from 17oz to 26oz unloaded. Should weight affect my evaluation?
Not much. Depending on what you're wearing and how you're carrying. With a proper belt and holster weight shouldn't be much of an issue unless maybe if you've got health problems.
Anything else?
Remember that, in general, smaller easier to carry will equal less shootable. Not necessarily too bad but enough to were you may have difficulty past 7yrd line which is around about the max for most DGU anyway. For those about to pounce on this, I know it's not a given and some people can do amazing things with mouse guns but longer sight radius and full proper grip will be easier especially for someone new.
 
piggy backing on some others here.... aside from the holster and belt, your body shape will be a big factor in comfort and concealability.

where you position the holstered gun on your belt will effect the level of comfort when sitting (not so much standing, but most Americans sit an awful lot). next, where you position the holstered gun on your belt will effect the level of concealment. if your gut is broader/bigger around than your shoulders you will have a harder time concealing. of course there is the degree of cant for the holstered gun that effects concealment as well. unfortunately you will probably end up like a lot of folks with a box-o-holsters until you find the right one for you...
 
+1 on the body shape.

When I first started carrying as a slim young Airman a G21 was easy in a normal t-shirt. Now, still doable with effort but the same shirts don't hang loose like they used to.
 
I have a shooting session planned to rank my firearm finalists, but there are aspects of carry that a range session does not answer. I'd like to know your comments about my questions, and any questions you'd put to me.

How much does width affect carry? My finalists vary from .9in to 1.2in wide. Should width affect my evaluation?

Is printing illegal itself, just plain bad, or merely undesirable?

How much does weight affect carry? My list varies from 17oz to 26oz unloaded. Should weight affect my evaluation?

Anything else?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

1) Width is very significant, as the more narrow the gun, the easier to conceal, all other things being equal. Yes, it should affect your evaluation. However, until you actually try the gun out, you won't know.

When I first got my Glock 19, I had to dress around it. When I bought my Glock 43, I didn't have to dress around it as much.

2) Printing is undesirable. If it's legal or not depends on your state. You don't want to lose the element of surprise.

3) Weight affects carry because it tugs on your pants, etc. If you have a good holster and good ("gun") belt, it won't affect you as much. Case in point: I have an Uncle Mike instructor belt and an outrigger belt, and I use either the MIC holster or the Galco King Tuk holster. I don't have problems with my Glock 19 or my Glock 43. But the King Tuk is expensive. I've tried the Alien Gear holster for these guns and they weren't for me, but other people like them.

It's going to be like shopping for shoes almost. It's going to take trying stuff on, etc. Thankfully, most manufacturers have very good return policies on their holsters. And if you have a rather large gun store in your location, they may have a lot of holster variety, which will only help you choose.

Good luck! :)
 
Holsters...good points above. I, like nearly every gun owner, have a big bag full of holsters. Many, many manufacturers out there. For IWB carry, I have found the Crossbreed Supertucks to fit the bill nicely. I have one for every one of the guns listed above. I now order exclusively from Crissbreed Seconds and pay around $40 each. I haven't found a noticeable difference between seconds and new yet. I prefer the horsehide.
 
Wow.

There is a lot I had not conceived of. Thank you.

I had naively been focused more on the firearm choice and less on the items for carrying it.

It's a moving target of needs
You've also opened my eyes to see that my choices in firearm + belt + holster, however well investigated, are not likely to be "the end of the matter" in a single purchase. That helps, because if I end up disliking some aspect of package, I'm better prepared to identify what and why, in order to move on cleanly to the next thing rather than bash myself over "making a poor choice." I hate that, so I tend to obsess over details in making a purchase. It's good to know that purchases in this area are not THE.FINAL.SOLUTION. as of the first--er, second--er, perhaps fifteenth time around.

Which gun (width x weight x caliber x rounds)
Dang. This changes daily! The gist of it centers around something I *will* carry and *do* shoot well. Short term, I lean toward the thinner 9mm's, but in time I gather this may change, and I'm open to that.

Body shape matters
Yah, fortunately that's been lessening because I began to develop back issues over gaining weight, so it's been a focus of mine. This will always be a work in progress, as it is. Perhaps I should consider ankle carry, when not in looser clothes and cargo shorts on the weekends?

Knowing the laws
As for carry in Kansas, the laws just changed to allow open and concealed a few months ago, but it seems there's always someone with "their own interpretation" of them when you're out and about. I'm not always in Kansas, also, so "not advertising" is still important to me, and having a CCW license and knowing reciprocity with the other states I frequent is equally valuable. I prefer to blend in, than stand out.

Gun belts
My pants wardrobe tends toward fitting thinner men's belts. Say, 1 inch wide. A lot of my day to day slacks have loops that are narrower too (they might accept up to a 1.5 inch width belt). Do you have a clothier widen your loops, or have I just never looked at that while shopping before (or should I be looking at shopping elsewhere)?

People don't pay attention
Just an observation that this is a truth. Can't say how many times someone gets new glasses or shaves off their mustache and people can't figure out "what's different about you?" I had not thought about how much this applies to carrying also.
 
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Gun belts
My pants wardrobe tends toward fitting thinner men's belts. Say, 1 inch wide. A lot of my day to day slacks have loops that are narrower too (they might accept up to a 1.5 inch width belt). Do you have a clothier widen your loops, or have I just never looked at that while shopping before (or should I be looking at shopping elsewhere)?
Click to expand...

Some makers of very good gun gear do produce belts down to the customary 1-1/4" dress belt width, if that's where you need to go. Beltman is one: http://www.thebeltman.net/www/htdocs/index.html

Width helps a lot with stiffness and anchoring a holster to keep it where it should be, but a maker who knows what he's doing can make a worthy gun belt that isn't 1-3/4" wide.

Which gun (width x weight x caliber x rounds)
Dang. This changes daily! The gist of it centers around something I *will* carry and *do* shoot well. Short term, I lean toward the thinner 9mm's, but in time I gather this may change, and I'm open to that.
Click to expand...
The nice thing is that while there is a huge field of possible choices, a very great many of them will work just fine for you, especially as you start out and don't have firm preferences fixed in your mind. And, there are so many people carrying these days that there is a great degree of data so you can pretty easily pick something that's in the "middle of the road" and be secure in the knowledge that it will probably be better than 95% of a perfect match for you.

For example, you could choose a Glock 19 and just about everyone who carries a gun would say, "yeah, that'll work fine." Might not be your favorite gun of all time, but it's a well known carry choice with a great track record. And there are lots of similar choices that nestle together in that middle-of-the-road category. Pick one and start training!
 
As was stated earlier:
Plan2Live said:
Carrying a concealed weapon, any concealed weapon, is a big sticky ball of compromise.
Click to expand...
On to your other comments:
jamesmhebert said:
Wow.

There is a lot I had not conceived of. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Welcome to concealed carry!

jamesmhebert said:
. . . . I had naively been focused more on the firearm choice and less on the items for carrying it.

It's a moving target of needs
You've also opened my eyes to see that my choices in firearm + belt + holster, however well investigated, are not likely to be "the end of the matter" in a single purchase. That helps, because if I end up disliking some aspect of package, I'm better prepared to identify what and why, in order to move on cleanly to the next thing rather than bash myself over "making a poor choice." I hate that, so I tend to obsess over details in making a purchase. It's good to know that purchases in this area are not THE.FINAL.SOLUTION. as of the first--er, second--er, perhaps fifteenth time around.
Click to expand...
The truth is that almost nobody gets their rig set up perfectly the first time around. At this point, I own 3 carry guns and 7 holsters that I can think of off the top of my head. In order to carry full time (well, everywhere and everywhen legally permissible), I found that I needed more than 1 carry gun. I have 2 that I carry about 95% of the time. 1 small gun for pocket carry and 1 medium gun for belt carry and the large that I occasionally carry in colder weather. Selecting the firearm, holster, etc., is as much a part of getting dressed as picking which shoes to wear. For the small, I have a pocket holster. For the medium, I have an IWB hybrid (Crossbreed Supertuck), as well as an OWB leather for business casual to suits, and an OWB Kydex pancake for the woods, farms, etc., where I can OC. I also have 3 holsters for the large, for different situations.

jamesmhebert said:
Which gun (width x weight x caliber x rounds)
Dang. This changes daily! The gist of it centers around something I *will* carry and *do* shoot well. Short term, I lean toward the thinner 9mm's, but in time I gather this may change, and I'm open to that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it may change. That's OK. Happens to all of us. Don't overlook ammo costs, though. For example, as much as I like the .45 acp round, it's considerably more expensive to shoot than 9mm.

jamesmhebert said:
. . . . Perhaps I should consider ankle carry, when not in looser clothes and cargo shorts on the weekends?
Click to expand...
First, I have to admit that I've never tried ankle carry, but consider pocket carry as well. Something like an LCP or a J-frame revolver can be slipped into a pocket (& pocket holster) pretty easily.

jamesmhebert said:
. . . . Gun belts
My pants wardrobe tends toward fitting thinner men's belts. Say, 1 inch wide. A lot of my day to day slacks have loops that are narrower too (they might accept up to a 1.5 inch width belt). Do you have a clothier widen your loops, or have I just never looked at that while shopping before (or should I be looking at shopping elsewhere)?
Click to expand...
I never looked at the width of belt loops until I started carrying. Now that I wear a 1.5" belt every day, I always look at them when buying pants. I've never had any loops let out. I just pocket carry when I can't use my gunbelt. That's pretty rare, though. You can find 1.25" gunbelts, though.

I'm fortunate in that my daily wardrobe usually includes a jacket of some kind. When I get to dress casually for work, it's khakis and a sport coat. On more formal days, I'm in a suit. It's as good a cover garment as I've found. :D

jamesmhebert said:
People don't pay attention
Just an observation that this is a truth. Can't say how many times someone gets new glasses or shaves off their mustache and people can't figure out "what's different about you?" I had not thought about how much this applies to carrying also.
Click to expand...
We live in a world where everybody and their dog hangs stuff off their belts. Cell phones (& some of them are quite large), pagers (less so these days) . . . You get the picture.
 
jamesmhebert,

Kansas Conceal and Open Carry Laws are very clear and leave little room for interpretation.

Since you want to carry out-of-state you will have to take a approved conceal carry class which is 8 hours long. The cost of the class runs anywhere from $65.00 to $100.00. All of the information in the classes is the same per State Law so this is a situation where cheaper is better. The course will teach you exactly what the law says so you will know whose "interpretation" to ignore.

The application fee is $132.50. The qualification course uses 25 rounds. My wife and I took the class together. I went ahead and got a concealed carry license for out of state carry (mainly Oklahoma & Texas). My wife decided that since I was armed and non-license carry is legal within the State it wasn't worth the additional cost for her to get a license.
 
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If you're concerned about printing, it means you are in a place that is not gun friendly. So concealment should top your list of criteria. Go small but not light.
Light guns are unpleasant. A good example is Walther PPK/S. Small, very concealable but with sufficient mass to make shooting it quite comfortable. Another is the older Smith J-frames such as the model 36, and especially, the model 49 bodyguard. And no matter what people say, don't discount the Beretta 21 Bobcat.
 
I am not a proponent of carry rotation. Continuity of purpose applies thus a S&W MP9 and MP9C.

Both are set up the same Apex Duty/Carry kit, 10-8 sight sets, 10-8 magazine floor plates, employ the same belt slide holster FBI tilt, same magazine pouch and ammunition type.

One other item the magazine disconnect feature which a substantial number of personages other than myself dislike.
 
The real secrets to concealed carry are:

1) Use a good belt. I like Comp-Tac 1.5" kydex reinforced belts.
2) Use a great Inside the Pants holster because it tucks the close to the body. I use either the Milt Sparks Criterion (supercedes the Versa Max 2) or a solid appendix carry holster for the G26. I also use a DeSantis Nemesis (with flat mag base) for pocket carry.
3) Carry at least one spare magazine in a magazine holder. I use the Milt Sparks IPS for Glock 19 for my 9mm mag carrying needs.
4) Wear a slightly loose shirt.
5) +1" or +2" in the waist measurement.
6) If your gun is larger, or you're using the G19 mag in the G26, then the mag could print. Get a holster with forward cant. The Milt Sparks Criterion works great and has more forward cant.



Follow the recommendations that Tom Givens uses. I cannot find the article, but as I recall:

1) Capacity of 10 or more rounds. This is easy to do with 9mm.
2) Of a size that you can shoot well but will still readily carry
3) Highly reliable

Here is a related article:
http://blog.shooting-performance.com/youre-going-to-be-in-a-gunfight-tomorrow/

If you want specific recommendations:

Glock 26
S&W M&P Compact (flat magazine base)
SIG P320 Subcompact
HK P2000

...and similar.

My personal choice is a Glock 26. I carry it with 10 round magazine inserted with finger rest base. The Glock 12 round mags are just a bit too tall at the back and cause printing when in the gun. I carry a spare G19 mag if my shirt is loose, a G26 12 round mag if not and a 10 round mag if I absolutely cannot make the others work. The flat base 10 round G26 mag is good for more concealment and I use it in that role.

I use a Glock 3.5# connector and a NY-1 8 pound trigger spring for an exceptionally smooth 6 pound pull (exceeds factory spec). The gun is fully capable of hits on 10"x12" steel at 65 yards. The trick is to use high quality sights (don't even take the gun home...have the gun store install night sights). I use standard Trijicon 3 dot night sights (NOT HD). Don't get Warren Tacticals either.

Glock 26 with G19 magazine and A&G Grip Adapter and a standard G26 mag with finger rest.
glock26-800x600.jpg
 
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And remember that everyone is a little different, leading to different challenges...


For example... I may have missed it, but I don't recall mention of what to me is an absolutely critical factor in concealment: shirt/jacket length. I have a long torso in proportion to my overall body, and standard shirts (including some "Tactical" brands) and jackets often stop above my belt line.

Another body may never experience that.
 
Lately I have been carrying a Taurus PT 111 Millennium G2 (roughly the same size as a Glock 26 with a slightly longer grip). It carries 12 + 1 rounds of 9mm. I tend to prefer double stack carry guns as with the subcompact 9mm's there is usually only about 1/8" difference in thickness between the double stacks & the single stacks. I usually carry OWB using either a paddle holster or a belt slide type holster under an untucked loose fitting shirt.

In colder weather I carry my XD-40 which is larger. I usually wear a t-shirt with an unbuttoned, untucked long sleeved shirt over it when it is cooler. It also hides my SR 1911 easily if I carry it.

I agree with everyone else get a good quality belt & holster whatever mode of carry you decide to use. One other thing. Dark colors hide things better than dark & a shirt with a pattern or print on it tends to help break up the outline of whatever is underneath.
 
@ tomrkba

As much as I like my G19, I sure do like that G26 you've got there. I don't know that I've seen a mag adapter like that before.
 
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