movers

I'm about half. A practice session for me includes a few magazines of reinforcing the fundamentals, then a few magazines of drawstroke, then about half of my total rounds combining all three elements. Move, draw, fire (or not). It's important, too, to be able to move laterally. Moving straight forward or backward is often nearly useless.

(moving, then stopping, then shooting, IDPA-style doesn't count)

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Just for clarity's sake, in IDPA if shots are required on the move, then they must be shot MOVING. Not stopped. If your feet quit moving, that's a Procedural Error and penalty.

Now, there is lots of movement between points of cover, and then shots taken while stationary, but that's a different matter.

In my matches, there are ALWAYS shots required on the move. Maybe 10-15% of the match. About an even split between shots fired while retreating, and shots fired while moving laterally (both maybe 40%), with a lesser amount (maybe 20%) while moving forward.

I try to go for about 25% shooting while moving. Lately though I've been shooting more stationary (reliability testing, sight adjustment, etc).

Typically I'll post numerous simple 8.5 x 11 blank sheets of paper on cardboard, with the goal of keeping all my shots on the paper from various distances (20 yards to contact), varying my shooting speed accordingly while moving between random elements of "cover" I set up. If I start missing paper, I slow down my shots as needed.

Its pretty informal, but it works for me.

While all scores are recorded, and such info would be theoretically available, at least to some degree, the quick answer is no. I don't compile and analyze scores that way.

Seeing as you're generally allowed as many shots as you want, some guys may dump 4 shots at a target while moving and get the same scored hits as someone who only fired 2, so it might be hard to figure a direct percentage of hits/misses.

Now, the IDPA Classifier match has two segments (Strings 1 and 2 of Stage 2) which must be fired on the move and are "limited" (no extra shots allowed), so that would be a pretty simple analysis point. Maybe I'll try to put that analysis together after our next Classifier.

(They're pretty easy, though. Just 2 shots each on three targets while advancing, and 2 shots each on three targets while retreating, all between the 5 and 10 yard lines. So hit percentages are pretty high.)

My LE agency has an annual proficiency course we run that incorporates moving and shooting. They've had us shooting from our back and sides, while exiting cars, and clearing houses. One year, we had a scenario where you heard gun shots inside a home (the shoot house). They'd send a pair of officers in, with live ammo, to find the threat and stop it. Inside there were cardboard cutouts of people, some were armed and others weren't. I got teamed up with a senior citizen volunteer. I was terrified of having him behind me, with live ammo.

The annual qualification, has us move side to side, to get us to step off the line of force. With 30 cops lined up, it looks like a the electric slide... with pistols.

The local range I go to also has a Monday night shoot that incorporates movement.

My hit percentages are the same as standing, BUT I also move at a speed I know I can hit at, and I know it's not "full" speed. I've never shot at a full sprint.

I don't practice shooting on the move nearly enough, and it's one of my weak links. In IDPA, the rules indicate you merely have to be moving, no matter how glacially slow, so that's been my tactic. One of the reasons I plan on shooting more USPSA is to improve my shooting-on-the-move skill.

taliv said:

do you track scores, sam? what are the hit percentages for those shots?

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Hits on particular targets aren't tracked, but based on my personal observation, I'd say that your average shooter, shooting a 6-shot 7-10 yard 3-target array shot on the move, will shoot an additional 3ish "points down" over their "static" performance. Just a WAG, though.

My local ranges won't allow it. As such, IDPA or IPSC type competitions and firearms training classes are the way to go to get some experience.

While I do not practice shooting on the move as much as I should, most of my shooting is done at USPSA, 3 gun, and IDPA matches and shooting on the move can be required or merely beneficial.

The other day while practicing for a classifier match for IDPA I drew my handgun from holster, moved forward from 15 yards to 7 yards on the move and engaged 3 targets, 2 shots each, center mass (down 1) in 3.00 seconds.

These kinds of drills can be a good starting point. I practice the same drill in reverse as well.

When doing drills with my brothers, we often have shooting on the move requirements but they can be backwards, forwards, or sideways depending on what we set up.

I shoot on my property. Its cost effective that I move as opposed to the target thus the targets are stationary. In reference to the targets I move laterally, obliquely, and back away.

But also we modify the IDPA Man targets. Cut at a diagonal from the shoulder to the waist, cut in half from the head to the bottom of the body, and etcetera all to reduce the targeted area.

I shoot on state land, and usually alone or with one or two other people.

I do some static shooting for function test/ shoot from the draw.

I train shooting on the move laterally, usually cover to cover.
I train shooting on the move while advancing toward the target
I train shooting on the move while retreating from a target.
I need to incorporate shooting on the move single handed while dragging weight to simulate dragging a wounded person.

I also train transitioning from long gun to pistol.

I don't have any provisions for shooting moving targets safely, so I don't. I will set up multiple targets to engage.

When shooting with others, I'll have a non shooter call out targets to engage based on either color or number.

Can't think about this subject without hearing SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT in my mind's ear, that inimitable accent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MujiSSm_dE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaJ1QhafjI

For those unfamiliar with the drill, the targets are steel swingers, the paper targets are no-shoots that must be avoided both with incoming projectiles and 'outgoing' ones.

Fred Fuller said:

Can't think about this subject without hearing SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT in my mind's ear, that inimitable accent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MujiSSm_dE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaJ1QhafjI

For those unfamiliar with the drill, the targets are steel swingers, the paper targets are no-shoots that must be avoided both with incoming projectiles and 'outgoing' ones.

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I didn't even have to click the links to know how you meant. I've done that drill. It keeps you busy. Once in a class, he said he heard his voice on tape and said something to the effect of "I sound like that? I don't know you all put up with it." I really miss him.

1911 guy said:

I'm about half. A practice session for me includes a few magazines of reinforcing the fundamentals, then a few magazines of drawstroke, then about half of my total rounds combining all three elements. Move, draw, fire (or not). It's important, too, to be able to move laterally. Moving straight forward or backward is often nearly useless.

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+1. A liitle warm up, static draw practice, then some shoot, communicate, and move.

I practice that in a sandpit on the in-laws' back forty, and at the range when there are no other groups on the line.

Probably the latter. I never shoot on a "square range" by any description and I imagine the folks who visit ST&T are likely to be more of that sort than the average.

I shoot at a home range. Probably 75% of my shooting is just standing still, either drawing or not, and the other 25% involves either lateral or backward movement while firing at stationary targets. I don't have a setup for shooting at moving targets.

I tend to agree with the range access argument. When I do shoot at a "square range", I'm limited to standing there and putting rounds downrange. That's of very limited utility. I have to make the effort to get to places that allow much more latitude. Often, that means private property and offering my limited services for training time.

Wish I could, but a city-dweller has few options other than your state-of-the-art indoor ranges. That being said, I've enjoyed a few training courses where movement was taught and practiced.

I don't really do any "training" for self-defense, per se, but I shoot a fair amount of USPSA. I shoot close targets while on the move with some frequency. I have learned that shooting at medium-range targets while moving is mostly a low-odds proposition, and rarely worth it. Every once in a while I'll sling a round at a full-sized popper at <50' while running if I have a chance to shoot it later or while running into the position where I'll engage it; sometimes I get a hit, sometimes I don't... but with steel, at least I know. I wouldn't waste the ammo trying to do it with paper, because I'd re-shoot it later anyway.

I don't even think about taking long shots while running. Nor shots at swingers or texas stars or other targets with lateral movement. I might shoot a close drop-turner while moving, but that's a different proposition... the aim point doesn't change, just the availability of the target. No tracking (much less leading) is required.

For the most part, though, unless a target is close enough to point shoot, you're better off moving hard to a spot from which you want to shoot, then shooting quickly and accurately, then moving again.

How does that apply to self-defense? Probably pretty closely, I'd guess. The difference would be in the value of misses. On the one hand, "suppressive fire" might keep someone from shooting at you. On the other hand, there's usually not a berm in the real world, and you're responsible for all those misses. It would be case-specific, but I'd generally say that you should only take self-defense shots you think you can hit reliably. And that's going to generally mean not shooting on the move at other things on the move.

In a combat situation, the calculus is probably significantly different.

guyfromohio said:

Wish I could, but a city-dweller has few options other than your state-of-the-art indoor ranges. That being said, I've enjoyed a few training courses where movement was taught and practiced.

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Go shoot a USPSA match. You will have ample opportunity to shoot while moving... and to learn whether that makes any sense for you.