What to practice for CCW and Home Defense?

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Glamdring

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
916
Location
MN
In addition to practicing basics of shooting (ie safety, sight picture, stances, trigger control, etc), hardening perimeter of home, and situational awarness. What do you think one should practice for self defense as it relates to CCW and home defense.

I am NOT interested in IPSC, IDPA stuff. Mainly because I don't think they put the emphasis were it is needed. They focus to much on speed and long range (for self defense) shooting. The more I think about self defense shootings and the law, the more I think 10-12 yards is probably extreme range for self defense.

Most of practice should be at ranges measured in feet. If they are farther away COVER should probably be my first concern, not shooting.

Some of my concerns are:

What do you do when goblin is to close? Inside 3 feet?

What do you do if you have kids or others your trying to protect. Do you move bewteen them and the threat (be a sandbag)? Or do you move away (draw fire away)? Or does it depend? What does it depend on?

I welcome disagreement. But I would like some suggestions for concerns. I don't think awarness will always work to keep safe zone clear around you in the real world. Can you prevent any maybe dangerous person from ever getting closer than 7 yards? Trying to is good idea, but it isn't going to happen IMHO.
 
In addition to practicing basics of shooting (ie safety, sight picture, stances, trigger control, etc), hardening perimeter of home, and situational awarness. What do you think one should practice for self defense as it relates to CCW and home defense.
Click to expand...
Walk through your house during daylight, twilight, and full night time, with and without the shades drawn. Pay attention to corners and crannies where a BG could hide.

If someone breaks down your front door, what is your plan, exactly? Are you going to run down the hall to your children? Are you going to stay where you are?

If you have a spouse, which one of you is going to call 911 and which one of you is going to grab defense tools?

Is your bedroom door locked at night and does it have a phone, a cell phone, and preferably another way out such as a window? If you plan to use a room other than your own as your safe room (eg, the bedroom of your youngest child, perhaps) -- does it have all these things?

Do your children know what to do if they hear shouting in the middle of the night? (See http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1257665#post1257665 for more on this & what you can expect from kids at different ages.)

Examine the areas you may be standing and the directions you may have to shoot (eg, from your safe room door, look all directions). Which directions are absolutely safe and which ones are not safe at all? Where are your family members supposed to be -- and where could they be instead?

pax

A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. -- General George S. Patton
 
In Jeff Cooper's PPD book he suggests.

Observe your cat. It is difficult to surprise him. Why? Naturally his superior hearing is part of the answer, but not all of it. He moves well, using his senses fully. He is not preoccupied with irrelevancies. He's not thinking about his job or his image or his income tax. He is putting first things first, principally his physical security. Do likewise.

There are those who will object to the mood this instruction generates. They will complain that they do not wish to "live like that." They are under no obligation to do so. They can give up. But it is a feral world, and if one wishes to be at ease in it he must accomodate to it.

Anything out of place can be a danger signal, Certainly anyone you don't know approaching your dwelling must be regarded askance. It's 99 to one that he is perfectly harmless, but will you be reeady if he turns out to be that other one who is not?

Mrs. Toro


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
11 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which beleve not, lest the light of the glories gospel of Christ, who in the image of God, should shine unto them.
 
CCW

Going a little further than just situational awareness. When it is done right you actually appear as the predator. Other predators will recognize this. It's not enough to be aware, make it obvious to the BG to BEWARE! The other sheeple will think your nosey, but, who cares.

Recognize a threat, make it obvious you recognize it. Make them show their hand, by abruptly changing your direction, or with verbal challenges like "stop right there" if their keying on you, you will know.

Avoidance is the best way.

For training:
Draw-stroke from concealment.
Shooting on the move and at moving targets.
Flashlight and low-light techniques.
Use of cover and concealment.
Defensive driving.
CQB techniques such as close contact, compressed ready, palm strike step back, Tueller drill, alternative sighting methods, and responses to the right, left, and rear.

If any of these techniques are foreign to you get yourself some training from a reputable firearms instructor.

HTH
 
For ccw learn to point shoot. For ccw purposes isocoles/weaver/ect seems like a could way to have your pistol snatched and your arms used a as a lever agains you. Learn to shoot while protecting your handgun - after all you wouldn't run down the field with the football held at arms lenght, Would you?

For around the house? A dog.
 
Why not take one of the many quality courses out there? Practicing by yourself is like sex by yourself.
 
The only thing I would add to Snb's excellent response would be to practice:

-ground fighting: in fight where have you ended up?

-seated shooting

-weak hand: shooting and draws and transitions, no one promises us either hand in a fight

-transitions to bug, if carried

-malfunction drills

Double ditto training suggestion.:)
 
What's a "bug"? What's a "Tueller drill"?

Would take a self defense course if only I could afford it. AM teaching myself with books and Net forums.

THANKS

"Never"
 
BUG= BackUp Gun

The Tueller Drill is named after Dennis Tueller, a Salt Lake City cop and Gunsite instructor. Dennis wrote an article entitled "How Close Is To Close?" which appeared in SWAT magazine back in 1983. The gist of the article was that someone with a knife was a lethal threat even though they were 21-feet away from the gun armed goodguy. There are many variations on the Tueller Drill. A basic livefire version has the bad guy start back to back with the good guy. On the start signal, the bad guy runs away from the good guy, who draws and fires downrange. The bad guy stops when the good guy fires. Measure the distance covered. That serves as a benchmark on how far away someone with a contact weapon could be for that shooter to be able to successfully draw and shoot. Another version, done with dummy gun and rubber knife, has the bad guy start 21-feet away from, and facing the good guy. On the start signal, BG rushes GG attempting to cut him. Another version, BG starts on his own signal, forcing GG to react to BGs action. The purpose of the drill is to help gun people begin to understand the proxemics of encounters. This is something that martial artists tend to have a much better grasp of than do people who do not have a martial arts background.
 
What do you do if you have kids or others your trying to protect. Do you move bewteen them and the threat (be a sandbag)? Or do you move away (draw fire away)? Or does it depend? What does it depend on?
Click to expand...

OR.......... Do you go on the attack? The best way to get the children out of the equation may be to take the intiative and make the BG TRY to react to you. Get him on the defense, dictate the dynamics of the fight to him. Teach the kids to run until their safe and teach them to get help. Mother Bear the MF.

The only thing I would add to Snb's excellent response would be to practice:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words and the excellent additions.
 
Thanks

Thanks to Mr. Gomez for your respone. Maybe someday I can take your course.

Thanks to everyone for this excellant thread!

Regards,

"Never"
 
Glamdring/ NeveraVictimAgain

There are some excellent ideas in all these responses (and I’m sure more to come). They’ve pretty much covered the basics well, and there’s a wealth of tactical/situational awareness information out there by far better-trained folks than me. I can only add two ideas that came from my experiences …

1) If you have any thought that you may have to move about in your home in the wee hours to get to the family, clear a room, or whatever please be advised – with all due respect, you really don’t know jack about your house. ;)

TRAINING EX (a real eye opener I read somewhere)
Get a few kids to play hide and seek in the near dark with you. Equip them with flashlights and instructions to paint you the second they see you. Then try to clear/move.

I did it. Thought it would be a cakewalk. Wrong! Let me tell ya I was amazed at how fast the niece and nephew nailed big ol’ me in my own home! It became obvious real fast that clearing/moving successfully is not something I really want to do alone if I can at all avoid it! Sure changed my focus to securing a safe room primarily, and using coordinated tandem movement with my sweetie so we could cover each other if necessary.

2) Practice shooting to drop/stop. As a long-time competitor in a few gun disciplines I find we all tend to lock into a certain number of shots simply because of the repetitive nature of our target experience. We shoot two to the center of mass and move on. But what if two isn’t enough to stop the threat? In the time it takes to evaluate this the BG just might have you. Mozambiques and other drills are fine but they don’t always instill the proper mindset.

TRAINING EX (again not my invention, but fun and useful)
Get two IDPA or IPSC targets, some duct tape, a couple of balloons, string, a t-shirt, and a few 2-3†strips of cardboard. Punch a 1-2†hole in the center of the strips of cardboard. Tape the two targets together with the strips horizontal between them - one strip at the top of the head box and one just above the chest area. Run the string through the holes. Tie a balloon on the bottom so the target rests on the balloon when hung by the string. Tie the second balloon either loosely about an inch away from the top strip or well below the first balloon. Cover with the t-shirt and hang downrange.

What you have now is a great (and fun) failure to stop device. Shoot the target till it drops. Two shots to center of mass will not put this thing down. It will just slump a bit until the second balloon engages the weight. I find this a fun, useful exercise to overcome the habits acquired by shooting static targets at the range. And it’s a rather devious way to hang-up fellow shooters.

Get whatever training you can. Read the accounts and suggestions of others. Incorporate what works and makes sense to you. Remember, mindset and ability are always the keys to security.

Stay safe
 
Thanks for all the comments.

Room clearing: not something I ever want to do if I REALLY think there is a goblin around. That said I have cleared houses more than once because of noise that couldn't ID that sounded odd. And cleared buildings when I worked security.

Every place I have lived in I have practiced clearing with both SG and my Scout rifle (not that I would use the scout rifle as 1st or even 3rd choice, but long guns are harder to use than handguns for clearing real easy to let muzzle enter space that you can't see) in addition to running thru with my handguns.

Clearing rooms is much easier, and safer, if you turn the regular lights on, learned that in college working security. Even if no goblins are around it is real easy to hurt yourself walking around in the dark if your eyes are not dark adapted.

Learning lines of fire for home defense makes a lot of sense IMO. I think treating home defense like military does prepared defense is a good idea. Don't just think about lines of fire and lines of attack. Make range cards for each room and/or weapon. Lines that are safe for a shotgun with buckshot might not be safe with rifle, handgun, or SG using slugs.

When I don't have roomies, I normally use furniture and other items to create traffic jams on most likely lines of attack. Buys you time (helps out with OODA loop, specially if your asleep to start with). And remember that you can move up or down, most goblins are not going to expect you to exit in those directions from a regular room.

***
Wild Bill: Could you post a pic of the reactive target? I don't understand clearly how to rig it.

***
El Tejon: How different is seated shooting from sitting position or rice paddy prone? I don't know if I can use real chair at the range, but I can certainly try that with dryfire.
***
As to Cooper and his cats, they must be different than the ones I am used to. I sometimes sneak up on cats without trying to, they jump more than a little then :D
***
I don't think much of the shooting schools as places to go for self defense training. They are IMHO shooting schools. They are not holistic enough for self defense.

An example, at work I am pretty well stuck with pocket and/or off body carry. The guns have to stay concealed and I have a dress code to deal with. How many shooting schools do you know would even let me run thru their class working with my actual carry methods? Would they let me present from pocket holster? Or from soft briefcase?

Many of the techniques they teach only made sense will service size guns carried openly.
 
Glam,

I bring a chair and a table out to my range. People have commented on it, but when they realize what I am doing, a light comes on and they gain Tactical Truth. Always willing to help.:cool:

As far as shooting schools, to which ones are you referring to? This has not been my experience in the least.

You may want to reconsider pocket carry and off-body carry. While highly rated in gun rags, it is dangerous to you and others. Several instructors will allow you on the range with pocket carry.

I have a dress code as well--suit and tie. I carry a 1911 as a primary. The key is a good holster and belt.
 
Something I have found is your best defense is a bit of warning. A dog that barks may be a bit of a pain(you'll learn to love them :) ), but the warnign could give you those crucial moments.

(I have outside dogs and inside dogs since I live in a rural area, they are a pretty good motion sensor. :) )
 
Well, I can't wear covering garment at work.

***

Could you explain why you feel that pocket and off body carry are dangerous?? I am not talking holsterless carry. Rather using pocket, briefcase, or organizer to conceal holstered handgun.

I know it is slower than a strongside holster, but that isn't an option at that job.

***
As to gun rags all that I have read for some time now are Rifle and Handloader. They haven't said much at all about any concealed carry :rolleyes:
 
Hey, the problem with off-body carry is that you set your stuff down sometimes.

If someone comes in the front door yelling threats with his gun drawn, I'm going to dive under a desk or run out the back door.

If the gun isn't clipped to my personal body, there's a good chance that I'll be cowering under a table, helpless, with my gun across the room from me.

Not to mention the usual concerns about losing it or other people inadvertently getting ahold of it.

I suppose the ultimate off body carry (one used by a lot of my women friends) is just to rely on a trusted other to carry your gun for you. See my sig about the problems with that.

:D

pax

Now I am undeniably a pessimist. Just ask my friends. They'll all tell you, "He doesn't even bother looking at the glass anymore." But I'm a comforting sort of pessimist because I get more cheerful when things go wrong. As long as everything is going wrong I know that all is still right with the universe. It gives me a sense of peace and comfort. So when I look at this bear standing 25 yards away, halfway between me and my buddy -- or more to the point, halfway between me and my pistol -- I get this overwhelming sense of peace and comfort. All is well with the universe. – Don Stahlnecker
 
Well the way I normally use off body carry, is to backup mouse gun carried in pocket with a real gun (4" 357 or 44) carried in lockable briefcase.

As long as the gun is in your control or safely secured I don't see how it is anymore dangerous than any other carry style?
 
While tactics are dictated by environment, off body is slow, may not allow a good grip, can be more subject to NDs, and is not a good retention position in a fight. Pocket carry is also slow, clumsy and subject to more NDs (including a noted one here at THR/TFL where a little boy was killed by his father and his preference for pocket carry).

However, if that is your only option because of your environment, then work to minimize these risks.:)

BTW, I often carry without a "cover" garment. I just untuck my yuppiescum Territory Ahead shirt over my pistols (I do wear a v-neck tee shirt as I am a big pansy).
 
Glamdring

My apologies for the rough nature of the diagram below – had to make it in paint since that’s the closest I have to a draw program on this machine. Hope this clarifies the idea.
 
Wild Bill: Thanks! Very good diagram. I understand what you mean now.

***

El Tejon: What kind of ND is common only to pocket carry?

As to pocket carry being slow and clumsy, perhaps we are thinking different draw techniques?

I use two basic techniques.

Ideally I start with hand griping gun. This isn't cheating since no one knows you have already gone to grip with a pocket holster. Only difference from firing grip is that thumb is placed over hammer (or with my P32/P11 over back of slide, which will actually make it difficult to pull trigger, it has sort of like a Bodyguards hammer, exposed but shrouded). The thumb increases safety and also provides a "wedge" for smooth draw (no snagging). Then you draw back and up, you end up in a high retention position (sort of like a speed rock).

The other draw, Panic or OS, hand forms sort of a C or wedge till fingers enter pocket. Then it is the same as ideal draw.

IMHO proper pocket draws are up and back, not forward like a strong side belt holster stroke.

I think if you try it a bit with a good pocket holster you will find that it isn't that slow or dangerous. And the basic draw stroke is to a retention position.

If you time it with hand on pocket holster vs belt holster concealed I suspect pocket draw might be faster.
 
You can practice the panic part of the draw all the time, your just going to grip, gun stays in holster. So it is safe. Also in the real world you can (I DO) get a grip on gun at a much lower threat level than you can with a strong side belt holster.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

1
  • Locked
Practical Self Defense Theory
Replies
5
Views
907
Brian@ITC
B
C
  • Locked
What distance to practice
2 3 4 5
Replies
122
Views
3K
Kleanbore
K
F
  • Locked
USTC Offers New Home Defense Course
Replies
2
Views
322
luzyfuerza
luzyfuerza
P
  • Locked
How to build a home defense plan
Replies
19
Views
756
Deltaboy1984
Deltaboy1984
G
  • Locked
What is your practice regimen (or recommendations)?
2 3
Replies
56
Views
2K
JShirley
JShirley
Back
Top