Absolutely this... Also echo the thoughts about the no-fly list, and the "suspected terrorist's" and the NRA/whatever organization the feel like singling out...
I thought we'd learned this lesson by now... (McCarthy...)
POTUS address
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I thought we'd learned this lesson by now... (McCarthy...)
Let's not bandy about absurd extremes like NRA's membership being put on the no fly list. There are just too many of us for that not to get noticed immediately. It is the more insidious abuse of innocent Americans that have done nothing wrong put on the list for some arcane reason or the other that could put any of you on such a list.
WestKentucky
Member
I do wonder at times how the man decided he was qualified to run the country. All I have seen him run is his blowhole about things he doesn't understand, nor does he care to research or get opinion on before acting. His gun grabbing schemes have failed, but they have driven prices up. Cash for clunkers failed by design, anybody seen the price of a used car lately? Mandated healthcare, foreign policy, domestic policy, all seem to have taken our tax dollars and squandered them while inflation devalues the dollar daily. I'm not saying everything he has done is bad...he did sign a bill to put 1911s from the arms rooms of the military into the hands of the CMP.
buck460XVR
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The real question is how the majority of American voters decided he was qualified. I think in reality it came down to he was the lesser of two evils, both times.
Warfare in the world has changed greatly since the 2nd Amendment was written. At that time folks dressed in bright uniforms and stood in lines out in the open to shoot at each other. As the years went on, soldiers used cover more as firearms became more efficient, but they still wore uniforms to define who they were and they played by rules(The Geneva Convention, previous treaties and others). Nowadays there are no rules, there are no uniforms and woman and children are soldiers, and their targets are not other soldiers, but civilians. While warfare has changed, the ideals and the reasons for the 2nd Amendment have not, they have only gotten stronger and needed more than ever to protect the lives of civilians. While folks continue to politicize this, it is not about politics, it's about America and being free, and being able to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our neighbors.
The other problem is if they are given that power, they may well label all members of GOA, NRA or any other pro gun group terrorists. Some in the media is already doing that, its no stretch that our Democrat President's people would do that. Heck the zealots at Move On are already circulating a petition.
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/declare-the-nra-a-terrorist
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/4/wayne-lapierre-nra-chief-labeled-a-terrorist-by-ny/
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/declare-the-nra-a-terrorist
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/4/wayne-lapierre-nra-chief-labeled-a-terrorist-by-ny/
Carl N. Brown
Member
Apparently there is no procedure to get off the list once on it. If the 72 DHS personnel currently on the list are removed, it would be interesting to find out when and how.
These lists have false positives (people on the list who are neither suspected nor proven terrorists) and false negatives (people who are terrorists but not suspected or proven). Blind faith in these lists ought to be taken as a sign of insanity.
X-Rap
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Agreed, that would be a noticeable group but what of those who might order 1000 rds of 9mm/5.56 or 5000 bullets, 10,000 primers or 16# powder.
Or perhaps those who are RC car enthusiasts. I'd compare it to the way the gov has somewhat successfully countered domestic meth production by tracking purchases of common OTC drugs and the almost universal support it received from the public.
Aragon
member
President Obama gave the impression of being well, sort of beaten while giving his address. His comments about "assault rifles" seemed almost perfunctory -- as if he was following a script. Almost as if he had to mention X number of points and then get off the air ASAP. If I were a member of ISIS I think I would be pleased with what I saw and heard...
X-Rap
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I don't think he comforted any Americans that are in mortal fear of terrorists nor did he scare those at war with us, about all he did was appease a religious faction and piss off gun owners.
Gun control is not a matter of national security, screening and preventing malicious immigration is.
Gun control is not a matter of national security, screening and preventing malicious immigration is.
TimSr
Member
They are trying to drum up the old "semi-automatic" is an "assault weapon" is a machine gun fervor again. Other than the AR15 has replaced the AK47, it's looking like a 90's flashback. Only problem with that politically is that since semi-automatics are probably better than 90% of defense gun sales today, there are a lot fewer of the too ignorant to know the difference people out there to swallow it.
The problem with the no fly list, as everybody knows is that there is no standards by which a person can get on it, and no methods by which they can get off of it. You have toddlers on the list because of their name. Just think of it - Mr. "we can't stereotype Middle Easterners or Muslims" says its okay to put a guy on the list, and denying him 2nd A rights for having the wrong name, but a guy named "Hussein" can command the world's most powerful military with less documentation than the San B. terrorists. If you think about it, with his Muslim connections, and frequent communications with terrorist organizations and states, should Obama not be on the no fly list?
The problem with the no fly list, as everybody knows is that there is no standards by which a person can get on it, and no methods by which they can get off of it. You have toddlers on the list because of their name. Just think of it - Mr. "we can't stereotype Middle Easterners or Muslims" says its okay to put a guy on the list, and denying him 2nd A rights for having the wrong name, but a guy named "Hussein" can command the world's most powerful military with less documentation than the San B. terrorists. If you think about it, with his Muslim connections, and frequent communications with terrorist organizations and states, should Obama not be on the no fly list?
boatdoc173
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he and the rest of the anti gun folks need to realize we live in a different world these days
although I hope to never see another attack like last weeks in the USA(or anywhere). it is unrealistic considering the shear # of muslims in our country and how easily they have been swayed by isis type rhetoric.
that said , when the next attack comes, I can only hope a well trained person with a CCW or a veteran takes them out-- and we make a BIG deal of it. That will help demonstrate that lie the Israelis--we need MORE people who train with and carry guns so we are not just sheeple waiting to be slaughtered
sadly Obama and bloomberg
will waste our time and $$ fighting their worthless agenda. Background checks... do not work. Prohibition did not work either. The black market and the criminals who use it always get what they want--without regard for our laws-- the politicians are answering to the 1%ers who do not want us to beable to resist their government if the time comes--JMHO
although I hope to never see another attack like last weeks in the USA(or anywhere). it is unrealistic considering the shear # of muslims in our country and how easily they have been swayed by isis type rhetoric.
that said , when the next attack comes, I can only hope a well trained person with a CCW or a veteran takes them out-- and we make a BIG deal of it. That will help demonstrate that lie the Israelis--we need MORE people who train with and carry guns so we are not just sheeple waiting to be slaughtered
sadly Obama and bloomberg
will waste our time and $$ fighting their worthless agenda. Background checks... do not work. Prohibition did not work either. The black market and the criminals who use it always get what they want--without regard for our laws-- the politicians are answering to the 1%ers who do not want us to beable to resist their government if the time comes--JMHO
The charade to use the “no fly list” as tactic for more gun control signifies how desperate the left is in attempting to undermine the 2nd amendment. Are these not the same people who eschew voter ID and illegal alien profiling? I guess when you are trampling on the Constitution, it’s no concern as long as the mean is couched with “keeping Americans safe”.
I am one of those in the camp that believe Obama gutted his speech of more gun control laws since his deceit is all too well exposed. He has reached the limit of his executive orders and now must pander to the freighted masses to achieve his objective.
I am one of those in the camp that believe Obama gutted his speech of more gun control laws since his deceit is all too well exposed. He has reached the limit of his executive orders and now must pander to the freighted masses to achieve his objective.
tactikel
Member
Using the "no fly list" as an excuse to deny, arbitrarliy and without recourse, Contitutionally guaranteed rights to uncharged citizens is just a way to work around that pesky, annoying Bill of Rights. This scares the heck out of me.
Any terrorist will use the black market, staw purchases, or theft to obtain the weapons they covet. Unless the "list" is open, transparent, open to appeal, this whole idea is just uncontitutional.
Any terrorist will use the black market, staw purchases, or theft to obtain the weapons they covet. Unless the "list" is open, transparent, open to appeal, this whole idea is just uncontitutional.
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rodregier
Member
The "No Fly List" lack of due process in this context might actually result in
co-operation between the ACLU and the NRA, which has been lacking up to now...
co-operation between the ACLU and the NRA, which has been lacking up to now...
buck460XVR
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I believe that the lack of solutions presented both by the POTUS and others(Republicans seeking the nomination, forum posters, etc) shows that there is little we can do, ethically and without giving up some of our freedoms. Folks don't want to restrict their 2nd Amendment rights to hinder criminals(whether it would work or not), folks don't want their kids to go to schools that are like prisons( fact is, that's the only way we can guarantee their safety), folks don't want to be strip searched to board a plane/train or bus. Keeping new folks out of our country is not going to stop domestic terrorism or mass school shootings. Nor is leveling whole countries with bombs going to end international terrorism. What I saw from the President and from his Republican opponents the other night was frustrated folks with no ideas of how to solve this problem. I see the same thing here. Folks whining about what others propose with no proposals themselves. Truth is, I don't believe there are many viable solutions without a major change to our way of life here in the U.S. The one thing the President did say that made sense was to not divide ourselves. This is just what ISIS and other terrorist groups want. Divide and conquer.
Artofgolf
Member
On the morning CNBC show, they had the mayor of Jerusalem on as a guest. The discussion was centered on how they dealt with terrorism: profiling by behavior was one of the methods mentioned, along with about 3% of the population with CCW permits. He was very reasoned about how important all the parts of the effort were integrated into a plan that was quite effective for them. He also mentioned that there was a group of US law enforcement officials currently visiting to study their methods. I hope POTUS takes their recommendations seriously, as his administration's efforts have been lackluster in dealing with domestic & ISIS terrorist attacks.
X-Rap
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There probably aren't many short term solutions. We have spent trillions trying to keep the country safe and we are more at risk today than we have been. I believe that to be true, simply because of the revelations from the authorities since the San B attacks, it's clear they were caught totally off guard.
One thing that must happen for them not to win is we must change the total panic and extreme response in the aftermath of their attacks.
Just imagine the expenditures of just this country since Paris. It's clear that we need to revamp how we react to these attacks that could easily and likely increase over the coming years. ISIS will be replaced by something else just like those groups before them even if they succeed in actually forming a real country. Given the way the free world is presently responding to this threat I believe a relative handful of these committed fanatics could continue to wage this war for longer than we have the finances.
One thing that must happen for them not to win is we must change the total panic and extreme response in the aftermath of their attacks.
Just imagine the expenditures of just this country since Paris. It's clear that we need to revamp how we react to these attacks that could easily and likely increase over the coming years. ISIS will be replaced by something else just like those groups before them even if they succeed in actually forming a real country. Given the way the free world is presently responding to this threat I believe a relative handful of these committed fanatics could continue to wage this war for longer than we have the finances.
yokel
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Really?
Obama's disingenuousness was breathtaking and is just moral grandstanding for cheap political points.
His unimpeachable certainty is that he has a monopoly on all the good arguments and all the best motives.
He would rather go for everything he wants and get nothing — but keep the political issue — than make progress on common ground.
old lady new shooter
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The Alaskan
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That's probably the best comment I've seen around here in a while.
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