Why don't they add a box for 'Gift' when you purchase a firearm?

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Aim1

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If I'm correct the papwerwork to purchase a firearm is called a Form 4473 and on it there is a box that says, "Are you purchasing this gun for yourself?" .......and if you put no then you would be committing a straw purchase.


However, everyone knows that thousands of people a year buy a gun for a wife, husband, son, daughter, etc, etc......


So these people are in fact lying on their Form 4473 when they say they aren't buying it for themselves.




Why don't they just have a box that says are you purchasing this firearm as a gift?




Since it's legal to buy a gun for someone, right?
 
It doesn't ask if you're purchasing it for yourself it asks if you are the actual purchaser. If you are giving it to someone else then you are still the purchaser.
 
Aim1 If I'm correct the papwerwork to purchase a firearm is called a Form 4473 and on it there is a box that says, "Are you purchasing this gun for yourself?" .......and if you put no then you would be committing a straw purchase.
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Have you actually read the 4473?:scrutiny:
"Cause that's NOT what it asks.



So these people are in fact lying on their Form 4473 when they say they aren't buying it for themselves.
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No, they are not.




Why don't they just have a box that says are you purchasing this firearm as a gift?
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Because it's not needed.




Since it's legal to buy a gun for someone, right?
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As a gift, yes.
 
I can buy a gun and give it to you.
I cannot take your money, go to the store, and buy a gun for you.
 
JSH1 said:
I can buy a gun and give it to you.
I cannot take your money, go to the store, and buy a gun for you.
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Gift for spouse or child/grandchild is ok.

I believe there was a recent ruling (last year maybe) that said for example, if a guy sees a gun his friend has been wanting in a gun store, on sale today only, and the friend is out of town and definitely not a prohibited person, is it lawful for the guy to buy it with the intention of giving it to his out of town friend when he gets back, knowing he is not prohibited and private sales are legal in that state and the ruling was no.
 
Ryanxia said:
Gift for spouse or child/grandchild is ok.

I believe there was a recent ruling (last year maybe) that said for example, if a guy sees a gun his friend has been wanting in a gun store, on sale today only, and the friend is out of town and definitely not a prohibited person, is it lawful for the guy to buy it with the intention of giving it to his out of town friend when he gets back, knowing he is not prohibited and private sales are legal in that state and the ruling was no.
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As a legitimate gift.

If the friend reimburses you for the gun, it was a straw purchases.

The friend being allowed to possess the gun is not relevant to it being a straw purchase. Dumb, and counter to the commonly held belief that straw purchase laws are there to keep prohibited persons from easily getting guns, but that's the way it is.
 
Without knowing too much about it, this was what I read.

Significantly, the federal form and identification procedure make clear that only the actual buyers are eligible to make the purchase. It features in boldface these words: "Warning: you are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm to you."
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He appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing that his answer on the form was "not material to the lawfulness of the sale" because his uncle could have bought the gun legally on his own.

On Monday the high court rejected that argument by a 5-to-4 vote.
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I admit I haven't looked too much into this but to me it read that buying on behalf of another person is a no no if it isn't spouse/offspring. Granted this case the person was reimbursed but the way the court ruled made it sound to me that it doesn't matter.

Link: http://www.npr.org/2014/06/16/322650543/supreme-court-rules-against-straw-gun-purchases
 
He was not the actual buyer because the uncle reimbursed him.

You can buy a firearm for another person as a legitimate gift so long as no other laws are broken (obviously). But it's not a legitimate gift if they reimburse you, that makes them the actual purchaser.
 
Warp said:
He was not the actual buyer because the uncle reimbursed him.

You can buy a firearm for another person as a legitimate gift so long as no other laws are broken (obviously). But it's not a legitimate gift if they reimburse you, that makes them the actual purchaser.
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Oh, so being the actual buyer is whoever is paying for it. That would make sense. My bad.
 
It does not matter to whom you plan to give the gun to, as a gift. (If that's a prohibited person, you have a different problem.)

Child, spouse, boss, employee, stranger, whatever. All good, so long as you are purchasing the gun, intending to give it as a gift.

If someone's saying, "hey buy ME a gun and I'll cover the costs, or reimburse you, or trade you my cow for it, etc." that's different and it would be a straw purchase.

that would go against the .gov control of individual rights.

just my OPINION!!
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Huh?
 
No problem! We've had some really tricky and touchy questions on this here before that would make for mighty interested cases if they'd ever come to prosecutions and trials.

Stuff like, "but what if I and my wife share a bank account...and I'm buying her a gun, but who's money is paying for it?" Or another fun one, "I asked my Dad to buy me a gun. I don't have money for this, but I'm going to work all summer cutting his grass in exchange." Laws sometimes run into fuzzy lines and get all tangled up. :)
 
THE INSTRUCTIONS ARE ON THE BACK OF THE 4473.

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party.
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Mike
 
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Ryanxia said:
...I admit I haven't looked too much into this but to me it read that buying on behalf of another person is a no no if it isn't spouse/offspring...
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The link you provided says nothing about the exemption for straw purchases for spouse/offspring. Do you have a link that shows where a straw purchase is ok for those 2 categories?

*ETA: Actually, I think Sam has cleared this up, as I understand the law to be.
 
I don't know about the rest of you married guys, but every time I buy a gun, it's probably a straw purchase, because what's her's is her's and what's mine is her's.:p
 
Out of curiosity, how long after a legal purchase do you have to wait to sell the gun and not be a straw purchase?

Example: you buy a gun. After a while you want to sell it. How long after the 'while' part must you wait to avoid problems?

Can it be that day? The next day? A month later?

Do you have to actually fire the gun before you can sell it?
 
crazysquirrel said:
Out of curiosity, how long after a legal purchase do you have to wait to sell the gun and not be a straw purchase?

Example: you buy a gun. After a while you want to sell it. How long after the 'while' part must you wait to avoid problems?

Can it be that day? The next day? A month later?

Do you have to actually fire the gun before you can sell it?
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There is no time minimum and no you don't have to fire it.

I picked up a gun at a gun show once, got it home and realized it had a 10 pound trigger pull! Needless to say that got passed along pretty quickly.
 
10 pound pull? wow. Couldn't a gunsmith adjust the spring in it?

So you are telling my I can buy a gun today and once in the parking lot I can resell it that quick and not be a straw purchase???
 
crazysquirrel said:
10 pound pull? wow. Couldn't a gunsmith adjust the spring in it?

So you are telling my I can buy a gun today and once in the parking lot I can resell it that quick and not be a straw purchase???
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Why did you buy the gun in the first place?

And yes, the answer to that question is pivotal in answering your question.
 
crazysquirrel said:
10 pound pull? wow. Couldn't a gunsmith adjust the spring in it?

So you are telling my I can buy a gun today and once in the parking lot I can resell it that quick and not be a straw purchase???
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Regardless of the answers you may get here, it'd be a bad call.

Not only would it be easy for a prosecuter to make the case that you specifically bought it to sell, therefore breaking the law by dealing firearms without a license, it could also potentially be spun that since you sold it the same day you might have been a straw buyer. Either way is bad for you.

Now you might not get convicted (although you probably would) but you'd still be dragged through the process and forced to defend yourself in court. It is a bad idea to buy specifically to resell the same day, period.
 
I haven't bought one -yet-.

When I do I want to buy two - one for me and one for my wife.

Why not just abolish that question on the form?

Does the government think that people who will do straw purchases actually tell the truth on there?

And without having evidence or proof of a straw purchase, how can they justify asking a silly question?

I personally see nothing wrong with a straw purchase at all (as long as the other person is not 'disabled' from firearm ownership.

The ATF is supposed to be a convenient store, right?
 
Kiln said:
Regardless of the answers you may get here, it'd be a bad call.

Not only would it be easy for a prosecuter to make the case that you specifically bought it to sell, therefore breaking the law by dealing firearms without a license, it could also potentially be spun that since you sold it the same day you might have been a straw buyer. Either way is bad for you.

Now you might not get convicted (although you probably would) but you'd still be dragged through the process and forced to defend yourself in court. It is a bad idea to buy specifically to resell the same day, period.
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I'm not sure it's illegal for a person to buy one gun with the intention of selling it. Example that has been given...you see a severely under valued gun at a garage sale or pawn shop or wherever else, buy it, then go find a knowledgeable buyer/collector who just has to have it and make a profit...that isn't necessarily illegal (I am not a lawyer!). This would be the "in the business of" thing.

A straw purchase would be...you buy the gun with the money from somebody else, or you buy the gun with the intention of somebody else reimbursing you for it, then you meet them in the parking lot.
 
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