Why do people keep falling for this sort of garbage?

One man's Garbage is another man's Treasure?

Perhaps it is for the people really concerned about overpenetration? How is it marketed?

Why do people keep buying Federal Hydra-Shoks even though they're an almost 30 year old design that severely underperforms by today's standards? Almost anything performs better than them nowadays. The reason is that most people are ignorant when it comes to ammunition. They'll believe any hype or claims without checking independent tests.

chopinbloc said:

This is their web page.

I don't believe the myth of over penetration.

Click to expand...

When you read the website, they make it sound as if it's the best thing since buttered bread.

Civil Defense 9mm Ammo Lead Free personal defense round has received the highest score from the National Tactical Officers Association Members Tested and Recommended Program. With a 50-grain weight and a velocity of 2,000 FPS (kinetic energy at >450 FPE), Liberty Ammo Civil Defense 9mm rounds have an accuracy rate of under 2-inches at 50 meters.

Shooting a temperature stable Clear Ballistics gelatin, the 9mm rounds consistently penetrates beyond 12”, and never exits the 16” blocks. This includes shooting through t-shirts, towels and other clothing material that participants wanted to shoot. However, it will penetrate car doors and windshields. The round penetrates to the FBI minimum without over-penetrating. Additionally, the light round will punch through sheet metal and laminated glass – two of the toughest barriers – without any problem.

Click to expand...

....lotta folks worry about over-penetration, especially when used a HD scenario. Folks should use what they feel comfortable with, are proficient with, have confidence in and what performs well outta the firearm they are using.

WardenWolf said:

Why do people keep buying Federal Hydra-Shoks even though they're an almost 30 year old design that severely underperforms by today's standards? Almost anything performs better than them nowadays. The reason is that most people are ignorant when it comes to ammunition. They'll believe any hype or claims without checking independent tests.

Click to expand...

Except Hydra-Shok was one of the best bullet designs of its time. Back then, it made sense to buy them. So the people who buy them today are just behind the times, that's all.

But at no time has specialty lightweight novelty ammo like Liberty Civil Defense, G2 RIP, etc. been the best choice for effectiveness; they've always been gimmicks.

buck460XVR said:

When you read the website, they make it sound as if it's the best thing since buttered bread.



....lotta folks worry about over-penetration, especially when used a HD scenario. Folks should use what they feel comfortable with, are proficient with, have confidence in and what performs well outta the firearm they are using.

Click to expand...

And a lot of the choices people make don't perform well

WardenWolf said:

Why do people keep buying Federal Hydra-Shoks even though they're an almost 30 year old design that severely underperforms by today's standards? Almost anything performs better than them nowadays. The reason is that most people are ignorant when it comes to ammunition. They'll believe any hype or claims without checking independent tests.

Click to expand...

How much difference does it really make? If you are wearing a vest and I hit you in the chest with 3- 230gr ball 45acp rounds you will go down unable to breathe. They might not get through but you will have broken or severally bruised ribs. Then I can handle the rest.

Old might not be the best choice but it will stop someone. Sure Hydrashok isn't the coolest, there are better choices marginally, but they will get the job done. That is why they have been around 30 years.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Worrying about over-penetration in a HD scenario is pretty pointless. If it has the ability to stop an attacker, any misses will penetrate an interior wall or other thin stuff there is in the house, and even exterior walls if it's made of typical papermache construction.

It's just how it is. Every solution to overpenetration has either failed to solve this, or failed to produce an effective round which can still physically stop an attacker. If you miss, anything which satisfies the standards is going to be dangerous even if there's an interior wall behind. If you don't miss, it would take some really heavy duty round to penetrate the bad guy, an interior wall, and still be lethal.

And a lot of the choices people make don't perform well

Click to expand...

I take it the poster meant "works reliably" given the context. If it doesn't feed or function reliably in your gun, then you have a very serious problem.

While an older and proven bullet design might be only 90% as effective as the latest whiz-bang, it doesn't mean it doesn't preform well. If we take it that an average handgun stops an attacker in, say, 2.5 rounds, something which stops them on average in 2.3 isn't some sort of quantum leap. If the shooter has a lot of practice firing the old round and it has a record of reliability in his gun, it might very well be more effective in his or her hands. I think that is what Buck was trying to say.

mkc451 said:

If you are wearing a vest and I hit you in the chest with 3- 230gr ball 45acp rounds you will go down unable to breathe.

Click to expand...

That absolute statement you just made is false.

mkc451 said:

They might not get through but you will have broken or severally bruised ribs. Then I can handle the rest.

Click to expand...

Broken or merely bruised ribs is in no way a guarantee of anything, and absolutely does not guarantee a person will stop what they are doing, or go down.

mkc451 said:

Old might not be the best choice but it will stop someone. Sure Hydrashok isn't the coolest, there are better choices marginally, but they will get the job done. That is why they have been around 30 years.

Click to expand...

The other choices are more than marginally better.

They (hydrashok or the better choices) may or may not get the job done.

ANY handgun may or may not get the job done. Actually, handguns are weak and ineffective as a general rule.

What does a person usually do after being shot with a handgun? Whatever they were doing before they were shot with a handgun.

Warp said:

That absolute statement you just made is false.


Broken or merely bruised ribs is in no way a guarantee of anything, and absolutely does not guarantee a person will stop what they are doing, or go down.



The other choices are more than marginally better.

They (hydrashok or the better choices) may or may not get the job done.

ANY handgun may or may not get the job done. Actually, handguns are weak and ineffective as a general rule.

What does a person usually do after being shot with a handgun? Whatever they were doing before they were shot with a handgun.

Click to expand...

A bit silly to put both of those comments in the same post.

Warp said:

What does a person usually do after being shot with a handgun? Whatever they were doing before they were shot with a handgun.

Click to expand...

Care to cite proof of that statement?

How much difference does it really make? If you are wearing a vest and I hit you in the chest with 3- 230gr ball 45acp rounds you will go down unable to breathe. They might not get through but you will have broken or severally bruised ribs. Then I can handle the rest.

Old might not be the best choice but it will stop someone. Sure Hydrashok isn't the coolest, there are better choices marginally, but they will get the job done. That is why they have been around 30 years.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

hahahahahaha.....yeah, youve been watching too many westerns.....a .45 is not going to "knock you down"......

hell, this guy shoots himself with a .44mag, and barely phases him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWNBV6ndmH4&nohtml5=False

also, even if you do manage to break a rib, which is unlikely.......you had better hope that person isnt on drugs.....or hopped up on adrenaline......or has martial arts or combat experience......or is just a large brute.......otherwise your plans may no work as you are hoping.....

You guys haven't heard that saying before? I thought it was pretty universal.

Handguns are weak and ineffective as a general rule.

Unless you disable the CNS, there is no guarantee you'll even be able to tell you got a hit.

And it is laughably silly to proclaim putting two rounds of .45 (or whatever) into a bullet resistant vest will knock a person down and render them unable to breathe

Warp said:

You guys haven't heard that saying before? I thought it was pretty universal.

Click to expand...

Apparently as universal as the term "trigger dingle".

To answer the OP's question... "Why do people keep falling for this sort of garbage?"
I'd say people generally don't fall for it, none of that stuff has really taken off and been successful to my knowledge. Lots of those "best ammos ever" pop up and can't be found 2 years later.

Good video, and thanks for the education on clear ballistics gel, I never knew that.

I would never buy this ammo. That said, while penetration is 1.5" short of the minimum, this is no Glaser.

Impact at 1900fps with fragmentation will cause a lot of tissue damage in the temp cavity similar to a 5.56 from and SBR and the 10.5" will get it done from the front.

I wouldn't pick it due to lack of penetration for the less than perfect shots (through arms, side angles etc.)

strambo said:

I would never buy this ammo. That said, while penetration is 1.5" short of the minimum, this is no Glaser.

Impact at 1900fps with fragmentation will cause a lot of tissue damage in the temp cavity similar to a 5.56 from and SBR and the 10.5" will get it done from the front.

I wouldn't pick it due to lack of penetration for the less than perfect shots (through arms, side angles etc.)

Click to expand...

A 5.56/.223 round appropriate for the application will do a lot better than this in an SBR.

Federal Fusion for example.

A buddy of mine called Federal and asked them why they still produce Hydra-Shoks when they produce other rounds (HST, etc) that give better, more reliable performance?

Their answer was because people, and law enforcement agencies, keep buying them. The person from Federal stated that they get enough interest in the Hydra-Shoks every year to keep them in production. To lots of people, even with new and better developments, the Hydra-Shok is still the gold standard.

The only reason I could see purchasing that Civil Defense round is if you were in an area with constant large crowds (school, shopping mall, etc) and overpenetration would be a very real concern. Even with that being said there are better and cheaper rounds for that.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr