Help me out here...

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Okay, I am not looking for a "weapon" as such, just looking for a usable tool. The "non-firearm weapon" slot here seemed to be the best place to put this inquiry. I am not looking for a defensive weapon, not even as a last-ditch effort to stop any sort of assailant. I hope this question still qualifies for this forum!

What I am looking for is this knife:

http://www.amazon.com/Kershaw-3160-...&qid=1462340068&sr=8-1&keywords=kershaw+crown

but of better quality steel.

Originally I got this knife "just because" (like I need a reason!) and it has been my EDC ever since. I love the smooth opening, the liner lock, and yes, the hollow grind (even though I thought that I wouldn't like that part).

What I want is a folder of quality steel (something that holds an edge better than this!), with thumb stud for opening single handedly, a liner-lock, and finally (this is the toughest part), a knife that looks as good as this Kershaw does. I don't care if it is point up or point down carry, I can adapt. Also, I need to be able to afford it! Oh, NO SPRING ASSIST! I can open my own knife, and the blasted "safeties" tend to get in the way, if they are there.

I like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Lion-Steel-Kn...ID=3BF27NYXMJT7ZV982QEX&ref_=pd_cart_vw_2_1_p

but I just can't afford that right now. So... something like that. If you have an idea that is pricier than the Lion Steel one, post it anyway, and maybe I will be able to afford it later!

Thanks all!
 
Well, I'd suggest Benchmade but they are pricey compared to Kershaw. They are also worth every penny.

Try the Mini-Griptilian:

http://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-Kni...d=1462343331&sr=8-7&keywords=benchmade+knives

It is an AXIS lock, which is very good. I have several BM's with this lock and love it.

Then there's the knife I like, the full size Griptilian:

http://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-Kni...d=1462343331&sr=8-9&keywords=benchmade+knives

Also with AXIS lock, these two knives have a huge following and are very popular for a reason. Save up and buy one, I'd say.
 
The knife you can't afford is less than $100, the Kershaw is less than $20. In 2016 anything noticeably better than the $20 knife is going to be pretty near $100. Most good really good knives are going to be $100+. I'd stay with a cheaper $30 ish knife until I can afford the one you really want. Or just save my money until you can get what you really want.

If you really like the Kershaw, then buy it.
 
I agree. Hard to beat a Delica for EDC. Slim, lightweight, quality materials, great ergos and a very reasonable price (VG10 versions). The OP may not appreciate the looks as it falls outside of the "gentleman" category, but I would bet he'd like it if he tried it.
 
Keep in mind that most budget knives, say $30ish, are going to have the same 8Cr steel that you don't seem to want.

What is your absolute max you can spend?

Sent from my LGL33L using Tapatalk
 
There's really nothing wrong with 8CR13MOV. There aren't really "better" steels so much as a list of trade offs in properties. 8CR13MOV is a fine steel for a general purpose EDC knife if it has a good heat treatment.
 
The knife your looking at is a mild grade stainless steel a bit better for knifes than 440C Stainless

Find a blade is S30V or Sandvik For Stainless

Even D-2 or O1 tool steel "Ball Bearing" steel if you dont mind making sure it doesnt rust.

the better steel is stronger and better to hold a finer edge without rolling. and if the RW hardness is correct you wont have to worry about chipout.

The knife RC Model linked is an equivalent to 440C stainless and is not very good steel for knifes. thats why its 20 bucks. the 100 dollar + benchmade that RC has probably has the wrong grind or to thick of main blade. pretty common on benchmade to make them really strong to not break.
 
The knife RC Model linked is an equivalent to 440C stainless and is not very good steel for knifes.
Click to expand...
I hate to disagree.
And this isn't my first knife rodeo!!

440C, or 7CR17 can be very good knife steel if properly heat treated.

And whatever it is that Coast is doing to these blades for sure falls under the 'Properly' description.

Once again, they stay sharp for a very long time, and are easy to sharpen again on crox-sticks when they eventually need it.

I'd suggest, instead of throwing them all under the bus as inferior steel?
You should buy one for $10 bucks and see for yourself!

rc
 
Tirod said:
How bout something like this: http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=1_181&products_id=1078

Bolstered folders with wood grips involve precision manufacture and fitting - high end if an American Brand, and sometimes lacking finesse if imported. AUS8 steel is good working material, plus you won't likely ever see one of these in a store case.
Click to expand...
Beat me to it, I was about to suggest the same kit. Similar style to the kershaw and they are surprisingly good knives.
 
rcmodel said:
I hate to disagree.
And this isn't my first knife rodeo!!

440C, or 7CR17 can be very good knife steel if properly heat treated.

And whatever it is that Coast is doing to these blades for sure falls under the 'Properly' description.

Once again, they stay sharp for a very long time, and are easy to sharpen again on crox-sticks when they eventually need it.

I'd suggest, instead of throwing them all under the bus as inferior steel?
You should buy one for $10 bucks and see for yourself!

rc
Click to expand...
I'm sure they are OK..... But you say it yourself. Easy to sharpen.... If it is easy to sharpen it is either soft steel or micro chipping out. Not a bad thing but in stainless that is a pretty hard RW and would be prone to breaking with any sort of bending or misuse. I'm sure they Rockwell it hard since it's staying sharp for a long time. Don't drop it on a hard surface or you will not have a knife.
 
I feel the need to clarify a few things:

7Cr17MoV is nearly identical to 440A, not 440C.

440C is an excellent knife steel that has contrasting strengths when compared to D2. 440C is not a step down from D2. Unless you're making razor blades, 440C is a better steel than the Sandvik steels most commonly seen in pocket knives.

440A can be a good knife steel if your priorities are corrosion resistance, ease of sharpening, and low cost over edge retention.

For the folks suggesting knives with AUS-8 blades, that's not going to help the OP. AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV are nearly identical steels, and Kershaw's manufacturer in China has demonstrated that they know how to do a great heat treat on that steel.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-Bar...TF8&qid=1462623481&sr=8-36&keywords=Benchmade

I've been carrying this knife for at least 8 years. Awesome job at holding an edge. Opens easily. The pocket clip hasn't lost any of its "springiness". I don't really care for the serrated blades (difficult to sharpen, for me) and if I lose this I would replace it with the non-serrated version.

Save your pennies until you can buy quality. I'm not familiar with the other knives mentioned but I can highly recommend this one for EDC. I've cut a lot boxes on the way to recycling and it holds the edge. Plus all the other stuff you need a knife for-camping, hunting, gardening, etc. Even field dress deer with it.

And mine came with a sharpener. Couple of swipes and the edge is like new. Rarely needs it, though.
 
If it is easy to sharpen it is either soft steel or micro chipping out.
Click to expand...

That's a common oversimplification mistake a lot of people make. Hardness is important, but composition and chemistry of the steel is equally important in ease or difficulty of sharpening and wear resistance. Hardness values really only become relevant when comparisons are made within a family of steels with equivalent heat treat, and even this can be misleading at times. Any equating of hardness and wear resistance is a mistake. Actual chemical compositions and resulting metallurgical structures are what have to be considered as criteria for wear resistance. Actual wear test such as ASTM G 65 are needed to make such comparisons. 440C (and similar composition steels) were often pushed to high hardness making for difficulty in sharpening, but using heat treat to provide the user with less brittleness of the edge while retaining good wear resistance due to the chemistry without making sharpening overly difficult is easily achieved these days by good manufacturers and makers (Ray Ennis' Entrek knives are an example along with the 440C knives made by Jesse Davis).

Here's a good entry level read on this topic from Crucible.
https://www.crucible.com/pdfs/SelectorKnifePocketRotatedCrucibleLLC.pdf
 
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Unfortunately, I do not like the Benchmade lock... Otherwise, I have played with many of them and really like them.

I do already have the Kershaw, and like absolutely everything except the blade (doesn't seem to hold an edge, maybe I got a lemon, or maybe Kershaw doesn't do as good of a heat treatment on this model). I don't mind having a blade that takes a while to sharpen.

I really don't mind making sure it doesn't rust. I don't have any stainless guns, and I have had no problems with that! On the heat treatment thing, I do understand that a good heat treatment is more important than the particular alloy. Is there a good quick guide for alloy types and strengths/weaknesses of each (perhaps like the Crucible link, but with more info)? I have done a (very) little heat treating, and find it fun, but I just don't know enough about it to do a good job at it (yet)! I have thought about just getting some tool steel and making a blade for my existing knife.

That knifekits kit looks pretty nice, and I have absolutely no aversion to making my own scales!

I have looked at the Kershaw "Skyline", but it just isn't jumping out at me as of yet.

In all, I don't make a habit of dropping my knife, and I use it as a slicer, which probably is why I unexpectedly appreciated the hollow grind. I don't know if I just got a lemon, or if the folks at Kershaw (still like Kershaw's quality, I like their other knives too) just have a different heat treatment for their "Crown" (the fifteen dollar one that I have).

For affordability, I would just like to keep it under $100, and whatever goes below that I consider a bonus. I have been looking at this,

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B3NNR2K...TF8&colid=2CU1R22SSGS1L&coliid=I1NVKG20Y168YV

and really have no idea what "420 HC" is. Anybody know anything on that one, or if Buck has a good heat treat on it? I know their heat treatment is supposed to be pretty good on their 110 folder, but I have no experience on that one.

I also saw one in 1095, anybody know the qualities of that one? It is a Schrade, not a folder, just saw it and wondered about the steel (and Schrade's heat treatment).

Thanks for all the help so far!
 
I have 2 buck knives with their 420HC. I also have a leatherman with 420HC blades.
The buck knives by far outperform the leatherman blades in the same alloy. Buck really does a good job with it. It doesn't hold an edge as well as 440C, or ATS34, let alone the new "super steels". The buck bantam I paid 12 bucks for a couple year ago and really only carry it as a loaner knife. It takes a hair popping edge and holds it a reasonable time, not forever. Its very easy to sharpen though.

I can't find any other options on that knife, but buck has several models they are making in multiple blade steels. The vantage for example has sub models of select, avid, and pro which correlates to 420HC, a sandvik 13c26, and S30V. So if you find a Buck model that you like, be sure to check which steels you can get it in before you buy.
 
Buck knives sets the standard for HT, and many makers (including myself) have used their HT facility. No need to worry about a Buck for that reason. As to 420HC, I really don't know but 1095 is a very good steel but IIRC it's not stainless.
 
Reading this and other threads, I'm still confused...I have come to the conclusion that any major manufacturer, and probably most of the minor ones do not make knives from "BAD" steel! ;) They have to sell in a very competitive market, and most carry lines that are manufactured "offshore", not that that is an all bad situation.

Remember the knives we carried in our youth? Boy Scout jackknives, little $ 1.99 2-blade specials from the drugstore, or, in my case, a Stockman from the police department's confiscated box. (My uncle was a policeman.) I would wager that the best knives back then were on a par with a lot of the "economy" offerings today.

I bought my dad a Swiss Army knife when I was in Europe in the '60s, and when he died , I carried it for years till I lost it. Lots has been written about the less-than worthy steel of the SAK. Compared to what? Today, I'm carrying my 4th or 5th one, and have one in the drawer, only this one has scissors on it! Cleaning fish, digging splinters, whittling, cooking, adjusting Swiss rifle sights...bet you didn't know that is what the little "tit" on the can opener blade was originally for, did you? Me neither.:eek: I have 4 or 5 good and a couple not so good folding knives with assisted opening, clips, etc., etc., and a couple of Leatherman tools, but the SAK is plenty good so far. And, it doesn't come open in my pocket like the switchblade my uncle got for me when I was a teen-ager did. :eek: Stopped carrying that one in a hurry!

As far as steel, all the numbers and claims that this is better than that, or that one will shave you smoother for weeks make my poor head hurt! :banghead:

As far as price, I believe there are a multitude of knifemakers offering knifes that will be an adequate and trustworthy companion, and all for less than $50!

Of course, if you have the $$$, and want one of the Superheroes, more power to you!
 
You have to realize there are a lot of knife steel snobs on the world.

They want you to buy the latest greatest 'Super-Steel'.
And they belittle anyone who would settle for less.
(Better buy the diamond hones to sharpen them too.)

I have pretty much all of them.

But the best & sharpest, and easiest to keep sharp knives in my collection were made before WWII, out of plain high-carbon mystery metal, by Case, Marbles, K-Bar, etc.

Some of the latest & greatest is really hard to sharpen, and doesn't stay sharp any longer, if as long, then the 1916 Marbles Woodcraft in my collection.

rc
 
I hear you on the "steel snobs" thing. I use a Lansky sharpener (which, while anyone may or may not like, I like it and believe that the edges of my knives show that it is effective, if not the most efficient), and have never needed anything other than the aluminum and ceramic stones, although I have purchased supplemental stones, but not the diamond ones! If I can't sharpen it with those, I don't want it.

Aha! On that Swiss Army Knife, I have used a Wenger version (yes, I know that Victorinox adherents claim it to be the original, or something like that, but Wenger fans say the same thing...) for years. However, the issue at hand is well illustrated by this issue. I simply want something that will hold an edge a little longer. I don't drop it, chip it, baton with it, or otherwise abuse my cutlery, but I do use it, and I simply want to sharpen less often (although it might take a little longer).

On old knives, my favorite one to sharpen thus far is a "Richards" jackknife from England (apparently based in Sheffield) from a generation ago. I believe it holds a decent edge, along with a similar shaped and featured Camillus "Cub Scout" knife that my dad purchased when he was probably nine years old. These things hold an edge, and they do it better than my EDC (that Kershaw), so I know that what I want is somewhere out there! Both of these knives are pretty cheap, but the blades tend to be what I want (in the case of Richards, apparently they were simply cheap souvenirs, so maybe I just happened to get a good blade out of the thousands that were produced).

Okay, 1095 is what K-Bar seems to be making their classic patterned knives from now. I realize that it isn't stainless, but if it holds an edge that might be the one for me.
 
In my making days I couldn't afford the latest and greatest super steels - I mean the price of my knives would've had to have really gone up if I had used them. But I stuck to O1, 440C (which I found got very sharp) and ATS-34 and of course D2 and CPM-D2. These "basics" will make all the knives you'll ever need I think.

which probably is why I unexpectedly appreciated the hollow grind
Click to expand...

I do not know why some don't like hollow grinds, it's about all I made with no complaints. It was good enough for Loveless it was good enough for me.
 
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