Those that have one of these, are they decent shooters? Which country makes the best version? I've been thinking about getting one since I acquired a ton of ammo, looks to be Russian. So I thought it might be neat to get a pistol and give it a try. Most prices I've seen aren't to unreasonable. Just looking for opinions on this cartridge that I don't know much about.
7.62x25 Tokarev
- Thread starter Skyshot
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Mooseman
Member
I have a Chinese tokarev and a CZ-52. Both have shot just fine for me. I think the Chinese tokarev might be the least desirable type available but others might disagree. Be aware that if you get a CZ-52 they absolutely hate dry firing although that can be solved with an aftermarket firing pin.
AirmanRatliff
Member
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I have also shot both, and would say just the same thing hah. In my case my CZ shoots much better, and to boot feels nicer in my hands. Just my 2 cents. I have to say, I've never gotten the whole dry firing thing. Snap caps/dummy rounds are ridiculously cheap, and have more than just one use. For example, I made some myself (aka spraybombed some orange dummy ones copper+ silver), and have a friend load up my mags and use them to simulate failures to fire/feed. Great little drill.
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entropy
Member
That's the caliber, which gun are we talking about?
I had a CZ-52, fun gun to shoot. I've shot various Tokarevs belonging to friends, I like the Yugo the best, and a 9mm Chinese Tokarev was fun to shoot, too.
I had a CZ-52, fun gun to shoot. I've shot various Tokarevs belonging to friends, I like the Yugo the best, and a 9mm Chinese Tokarev was fun to shoot, too.
FL-NC
Member
I've messed with chinese toks a bit. They seem reliable.
Ibmikey
Member
The Yugoslovian Tokorev is about the best for shooting, grip is a little longer and the add on safety does not look too added on. When I got mine they were in nice used condition, like all other pistols and rifles from Eastern Europe the availability is drying up fast.
Panzerschwein
member
Love my Romanian Tokarev! Good little gun, can pierce most armors. Reliable. Hits hard. I prefer Makarovs, but Tokarevs are very cool. The ammo for them is pretty high nowadays though.
AZAndy
Member
My CZ-52 was really inaccurate, but I admired the roller/rail mechanism. The CZ has a good reputation, so mine must have been faulty in some way. My Romanian Tokarev is a very good shooter. It's a fun cartridge.
GBExpat
Member
Yes, all of mine are decent shooters.
I think that that will boil down to personal preference.
I really like the 7,62x25 Tok cartridge. A .30cal 86gr bullet running at ~1400+ makes for a nice, flat shooter. If you are used to shooting pistols at 25yd, the 7,62x25 may have you shooting at 50yds with equal success.
I have 3 Russians (sans add-on safeties), 2/ea Romy & Pole and 4 Yugo Mod.57 Variants.
One of the Yugos came with a bad trigger action. I speculate that someone (armourer?) reversed the sear leaf when it became worn and there were no replacements at-hand. I replaced the sear leaf and polished all of the surfaces and now the trigger action is as it should be.
BTW, I wear size L/G gloves (long, thin fingers) and the original TT-33 grip just fits my hand. Very comfortable & concealable. In winter, while wearing gloves of any thickness (i.e., other than "patrol" gloves), I have to use one of my Yugo Mod.57s with the longer grip.
HTH
BTW, while the CZ-52s look interesting & are fairly accurate, I have found them to be heavy, cumbersome and uncomfortable. I have 3.
Devonai
Member
I have a CZ-52, it's a lot of fun, but I'd echo GBExpat's sentiments. If it was all I had I would not be too concerned. Mag changes are not easy, as with most European-style heel release mags. When I take it to a public range, it gets attention.
TRX
Member
There's the original style Tokarev, which had only a half-cock notch as a safety. The Soviet military had no problem with that, though they usually used flap holsters which protected the hammer. The Tokarev is a popular concealed carry pistol in Pakistan due to price and availability; for common IWB holsters or pocket carry, most people leave the chamber empty and rack the slide before shooting.
There are modified Tokarevs with safeties added on. Most of those were done to war surplus pistols in Eastern Europe, for export to the USA.
There are new-manufacture Tokarevs with safeties, and a short "Commander" size version.
There have been some 1911s modified to shoot 7.62x25. They used the 9mm slide and a custom barrel. The Tok cartridge is too long to properly fit in a 9mm magazine; to get more than a few cartridges in usually requires modified or reloaded ammo with a shorter OAL. On the other hand, the Tok runs over 500 ft-lb muzzle energy vs 425-ish for .45 ACP. (depending on who's loading what...)
The cartridge now known as "7.62 x 25 Tokarev" was originally the 7.63 or .30 Mauser, designed for the Broomhandle Mauser. The cartridges physically interchange, but the Tok is loaded *much* hotter than the Mauser cartridge.
There are modified Tokarevs with safeties added on. Most of those were done to war surplus pistols in Eastern Europe, for export to the USA.
There are new-manufacture Tokarevs with safeties, and a short "Commander" size version.
There have been some 1911s modified to shoot 7.62x25. They used the 9mm slide and a custom barrel. The Tok cartridge is too long to properly fit in a 9mm magazine; to get more than a few cartridges in usually requires modified or reloaded ammo with a shorter OAL. On the other hand, the Tok runs over 500 ft-lb muzzle energy vs 425-ish for .45 ACP. (depending on who's loading what...)
The cartridge now known as "7.62 x 25 Tokarev" was originally the 7.63 or .30 Mauser, designed for the Broomhandle Mauser. The cartridges physically interchange, but the Tok is loaded *much* hotter than the Mauser cartridge.
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JohnnyFlake
Member
I have a Romania Tokarev that came in Excellent Plus Condition. It shoots like a dream and is very, very accurate! When I ordered it, I also ordered a complete set of new springs from wolf for it, in case they were needed. I have put about 400 rounds through it so far and it runs perfectly, in the original condition it came in. I have not replaced the springs yet. I truly love this piece of history. It cost me $239 for a hand selected unit!
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Unless you have hundreds of pounds of surplus ammo stashed I see no reason to buy 7.62 TT. For $50 to $100 you can buy NEW modern state of the art 9x19 pistol from Turkey and ammo for that caliber is commonly found and cheap.
Dain Bramage
Member
PabloJ, did Fedor Tokarev kick your dog? You seem to turn up in every Tokarev thread, decrying the cartridge and gun as useless. For me, that would be a lot of work for something I would just ignore.
stchman
Member
I have a Romanian Tokarev TTC that I bought years ago. It is a great shooter. I have a bunch of the milsurp ammo in spam cans.
Panzerschwein
member
Skyshot, you might do well to buy one of the $200 Romanian Tokarevs that are available on the market now. Most are arsenal refurbished and are in great shape, excellent shooters. If you've got the ammo, it's got the time.
GBExpat
Member
First I have heard about a shortened version out there. I will have to look around.
Like I need another TT-33 Variant ...
<chuckle>
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FWIW, during those times when I choose to CC one of these pistols, I always choose one of my Romys.
While the add-on safety (trigger block) on both the Romys and Poles are in the same place, the ones on my Romys operate more smoothly, so ...
JohnnyFlake
Member
Could you please provide whatever information you have concerning your statement above?
"There are new-manufacture Tokarevs with safeties, and a short "Commander" size version."
I know that there are many, many original Tokarev that have been factory updated with safeties, as that is the only way they can be shipped to the USA now days!
tark
Member
TRX the last sentence in your post # 11 is totally false, it is a myth that has been floating around for many years. The Russians copied the German round exactly, without changing anything. The WW-2 Russian load was 1390 FPS, out of a Tokarev barrel. The Germans were loading the 30 Mauser round to 1575FPS with the same bullet weight. Which one looks hotter to you? My source is "Small arms of the World" by Smith and Smith.
Now, it is true that today's 7.62X25 ammo is loaded red hot. Some loads are over 1600 with the 85 gr bullet. Advances in powder is the reason. It is not loaded to higher pressures. There is no such thing as "Sub-gun" 7.62X25 ammo. Never was. My source for that is Johnny-C who has forgotten more about 7.62X25 ammo than the rest of us put together will ever know.
I own three Tokarevs, I consider the Yugo's by Zastava to be the best. They have an elongated grip and they hold 9 rounds in their mag. My military M-57 has an added on safety that looks like it came from the factory that way. It works exactly like a 1911 safety.
It is very accurate, has a muzzle blast and flash like a howitzer and will put a bullet through a nine inch pine tree.
Not all Toks are created equal. I had a Russian WW2 example that beat itself to death after a few hundred rounds. It was obvious that the heat treating was either faulty, or non existant. I had a Chinese commercial gun that was just the opposite. It was too hard and the frame cracked where the slide impacts it.
If you get a CZ52, heed the wisdom of Mooseman. DO NOT dry fire them. The firing pin will break.
Now, it is true that today's 7.62X25 ammo is loaded red hot. Some loads are over 1600 with the 85 gr bullet. Advances in powder is the reason. It is not loaded to higher pressures. There is no such thing as "Sub-gun" 7.62X25 ammo. Never was. My source for that is Johnny-C who has forgotten more about 7.62X25 ammo than the rest of us put together will ever know.
I own three Tokarevs, I consider the Yugo's by Zastava to be the best. They have an elongated grip and they hold 9 rounds in their mag. My military M-57 has an added on safety that looks like it came from the factory that way. It works exactly like a 1911 safety.
It is very accurate, has a muzzle blast and flash like a howitzer and will put a bullet through a nine inch pine tree.
Not all Toks are created equal. I had a Russian WW2 example that beat itself to death after a few hundred rounds. It was obvious that the heat treating was either faulty, or non existant. I had a Chinese commercial gun that was just the opposite. It was too hard and the frame cracked where the slide impacts it.
If you get a CZ52, heed the wisdom of Mooseman. DO NOT dry fire them. The firing pin will break.
Deaf Smith
Member
It did and does. The same engineers that designed the gun, made the safety. Dang good safety. And yes, dang good gun.
Deaf
As I said if one has many pounds of inexpensive surplus ammo TT is good choice. For same money as Romanian TT I found this......
The fit and finish is very good. On the inside even some small parts have three digits of serial number etched on them. This was surprising I did not expect to find that.
Devonai
Member
Pablo, I find it odd that you eschew the Tokarev in favor of a more modern design in 9x19mm, then offer the Makarov, apparently to bolster your point. I happen to agree that the Mak is a better choice but for none of the reasons you allude to in post #14.
It's still a heavy pistol with a heel mag release, in a caliber you'd be hard pressed to find in anything other than FMJ in any given brick-and-mortar gun store.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the Tokarev is the pinnacle of pistol design, and should be immediately (re)adopted by all the armed forces and police departments world wide. Yes, the Makarov is a better choice in my opinion if you have to choose between the two, but that's not the point you were trying to make. Let us have fun with our weirdo bottleneck cartridges if we want to.
It's still a heavy pistol with a heel mag release, in a caliber you'd be hard pressed to find in anything other than FMJ in any given brick-and-mortar gun store.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the Tokarev is the pinnacle of pistol design, and should be immediately (re)adopted by all the armed forces and police departments world wide. Yes, the Makarov is a better choice in my opinion if you have to choose between the two, but that's not the point you were trying to make. Let us have fun with our weirdo bottleneck cartridges if we want to.
I own a Tokarev.
It isn't my go to pistol but it is a fun to shoot range toy and while ammo isn't cheap anymore it is easier to find than .22 Magnum in my area.
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