CZ vz 52 in 7.62x25, not Tokarev Ammo?

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jj1962hemi

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Hey Gang,

I just came across a neat deal. Unissused vz-52s for $309 (~50 yrs old). The price included shipping!

I have a Polish Tokarev that is very accurate and fun to shoot. In reading about the vz-52s, they say the Czech 7.62x25 was more potent (higher pressure, more powder) than the 7.62x25 round used for the Russian Tokarevs.

Any ideas on: 1) Whether the pistol (52) will function well with std. 7.62x25 ammo?

2) Where one would get Czech military ammo?

Here's the link below.


http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-52/
 
These are actually worse then the T33. I turned down previously issued one for $125 not long ago. Lot of that old Czech ammo was loaded for submachine gun use and should not be used in handguns. I advise you to forget about that "deal".
 
All 7.62x25 ammo, Czech, Russian, Chinese, etc., was loaded for both pistol and SMG use. There is no evidence whatsoever, anywhere, to the contrary. There is no such thing as Tokarev "hot SMG" ammo.
And yes, TTs have proven stronger than CZs, despite the oft-repeated internet myth.
 
I shoot both a Polish TTC and a CZ 52. Both are fun to shoot in their own way. The rounds are so hot that over half of the necks are cracked afterwards (old surplus Polish and Bulgarian). If you want something different, you can't go wrong with a 52 with it's roller mechanism. Just be aware, if you go with the CZ 52, don't ever dry fire it as the firing pin is made from cast and will break if done repetitively. Also check out Marschalgrips.com for one of the only custom grip makers for these guns (along with other old surplus gun grip offerings).
 
Thanks guys!

I keep wondering why the 7.62x25 cartridge isn't more popular. Whereas a 9x18 Makarov is only slightly stouter than a .380, the Tokarev seems like a barn burner! I love the TTC I have, but, being a CZ fan (I have an Eastern Euro mix of ancestry, so Polish/Czech stuff has an interest), it seemed like a great deal. I think the unissued part made it seem all the more interesting. Classic Arms has a Radom P-64 I like the looks of, but it would be almost a purely emotional decision because the 9x18 cartridge doesn't make sense to me.

All in all, I love this milsurp stuff!
 
If you like CZ and the 7.62x25 get a CZ52. The dry fire point has been made, do not do it. There is an outfit selling milled steel firing pins that may hold up better. Shoot any factory ammo you want in it, but do not make hot handloads for the CZ52. I would recommend searching THR member "CLARK" and his threads to see what happens when you hot rod a CZ52.
 
One can always look for Chinese Tokarev with 9x19 barrel. Seen one recently imported by
Navy Arms it had same slide & mag well as 7.62x25 but the barrel was 9x19. One could always swap for .30 cal barrel recoil spring, std mag and possibly barrel bushing and have both 9mm and .30cal in one pistol. The pistol Tu-90 or Pu-90 appeared virtually new and price was $220. Far better choice then the CZ52 clunker.
 
CZ52 pistols are fine, just don't dry fire. Surplus ammo sometimes is a problem because primers are either too hard or are getting old. Yugo surplus ammo could at times be very bad (click, bang, click..........bang, click click click bang).
 
$309 is too expensive. Look around, and you should be able to find one for less, and maybe significantly less.

It should work fine with most milsurp. I've had some annoyances with hard primers on Romanian ammo, but there are even remedies for that.

I keep wondering why the 7.62x25 cartridge isn't more popular.

It's too long. It's longer than .38 super or 10mm. Manufacturers would have to tool up for new slides, frames, and barrels. There's isn't enough demand for it, and especially since the super cheap milsurp ammo has seemingly dried up. I also suspect that manufacturers don't want to deal with neglectful shooters complaining about rust from corrosive ammo.
 
Gone are the days you could get these for $150. He's not describing a blued refurb but one that is unissued. I have one from when they were cheap. New-condition 52's are that expensive.
 
Gone are the days you could get these for $150. He's not describing a blued refurb but one that is unissued. I have one from when they were cheap. New-condition 52's are that expensive.

Exactly Ash!...The ones RC listed above are not what I'd consider "nice ones" but blued refurbs.

The 52 is far from a clunker when not hacked back together at the arsenal.

Here's what an unissued one, as the OP is describing, looks like, minus the Hogue grip. I wouldn't trade mine for $300 so take that however you want. There was only approximately 150,000 made and not too many unissued condition 52s left.

CZ52-1.jpg
 
The rounds are so hot that over half of the necks are cracked afterwards (old surplus Polish and Bulgarian).

The neck splits are not the result of the rounds being loaded "hot". I have noticed that quite a few of the necks on my old Polish 7.62x25 have become so brittle that they have split before being fired.

FWIW, I have not noticed an issue with split necks, either before or after, with Romy or Yugo x25. I have always avoided Bulgy x25, which was easy for me to do because of the ready availability of the other 3 flavors.
 
I've got a CZ-52 from back around 2004 or so. Paid $99 for it at the time. Overall they're pretty good guns for that price. For what they're wanting for them these days - not so much.

The 7.62x25 ammo is fun to shoot but costs a little more for non-surplus ammo. Not really anymore than shooting something like .45ACP or any other round, but compared to 9mm its pricier. Also harder to reload (bottleneck case). It certainly can be done and I've done it myself, but its just more of a headache.

Also, the sights are tiny, the firing pin is prone to breaking (get an aftermarket one while you still can), the gun has the euro-style heeled mag release, there is no slide release, and the safety seems backwards (it still pivots downwards to deactivate, but the pin is forward of the lever rather than behind it, making it just quirky).

Its not going to jam up on your or anything, but it wouldn't be on the top of my acquisition list.

EDIT: Just wanted to add though, that my CZ-52 does certainly work with any regular 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo I've tried in it.
 
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besides not dry firing, do not trust the decocker.

it may work fine, it may continue to work fine....
and possibly it may act like a trigger when used.

i like mine a great deal. such a flat shooter that the 100 yard 12 and 18 inch gongs are almost easy. mine shipped with a 9mm bbl that requires the use of strong +P ammo or a lighter bbl spring. rates a 10 for fun to shoot.
 
The decocker is an issue with the rebuilds - but the advice remains good. My dad had one with a decocker that would trip the sear. Surprised the heck out of me and my dad one time.
 
I've got a CZ-52 from back around 2004 or so. Paid $99 for it at the time. Overall they're pretty good guns for that price. For what they're wanting for them these days - not so much.

It's not 2004 anymore ;) ..... $99 and after that, you'd pass? Hell, my LCP cost $300 and is quite frankly a toad turd of a weapon compared to an unmolested 52. I can buy an LCP at every gun shop anywhere in the States, not so for an unissued condition CZ52.

Also, the sights are tiny, the firing pin is prone to breaking (get an aftermarket one while you still can), the gun has the euro-style heeled mag release, there is no slide release, and the safety seems backwards (it still pivots downwards to deactivate, but the pin is forward of the lever rather than behind it, making it just quirky).

Yep, the sights are tiny like most military sidearms from this era....True on the firing pin if dry fired repeatedly....I just purchased the machined FP for little expense, right after purchasing my 52 and saved the original. The pistol has worked flawlessly with the replacement FP for about 1500 rounds (mix) of surplus and S&B ammo.

Yep, the CZ52 is a quirky design but for some that's part of the appeal, along with the low quantity produced and the hotrod round it shoots.

Its not going to jam up on your or anything, but it wouldn't be on the top of my acquisition list.

EDIT: Just wanted to add though, that my CZ-52 does certainly work with any regular 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo I've tried in it.

As you said they are reliable!....Both my buddies (his a refurb) and mine have approximately 1500 rounds through them without a failure.....Can't say the same thing about the LCP :rolleyes: but uh-oh it fits my pocket nicely...lol...and only cost $300. :cool:
 
besides not dry firing, do not trust the decocker.

it may work fine, it may continue to work fine....
and possibly it may act like a trigger when used.

As far as the decocker goes, no decocker is fail proof and I do believe it's certainly more of an issue with the refurbs as Ash pointed out.....With that said, I don't trust any decocker and if I use them I always make sure the pistol is pointed in a safe directions so it's a non-issue for me but it's good you point this out to people who may not know!
 
I sold my CZ-52 as I could never warm up to the grip. After being impressed by my first Yugo M57, I sold my CZ-52 to fund the purchase for a 2nd M57.

My coworker is selling his CZ-52 currently. I want to say he's asking $250 for it, but I'm not certain.
 
I sold my CZ-52 as I could never warm up to the grip. After being impressed by my first Yugo M57, I sold my CZ-52 to fund the purchase for a 2nd M57.

My coworker is selling his CZ-52 currently. I want to say he's asking $250 for it, but I'm not certain.
Yeah - I get that. The grip still strikes me as odd in depth front to back relative to thickness but I hang onto 'er outa an attraction for the weirdness of it, my love of firearms, Czech and its legacy as a favorite among several of the "old school" socio-political European terrorists of the '70s.

That, and it just looks like it shoulda been in every episode of Man From U.N.C.L.E., Mission Impossible, The Prisoner and The Avengers instead of those silly Astras.
 
Czech submachineguns were made first in 7.62x25mm and their M48 cartridge was developed to give higher velocity in a ~10" barrel than the Soviet loading. Then they made the CZ52 to use the same M48 cartridge.

I suspect they used a slower burning powder giving the same pressure as the Russian load but a 20% or so higher velocity. The Czech S&B 7,62x25 load supposedly matches the old M48 load

The recoil impulse from the M48 load is hard on the bolt stop of the C96 Mauser. The Tokarev pistol though is as tough as its rep. But it is light compared to the CZ52. Just looking at the barrels (and not the effect on the rest of the gun or the shooter's hand), standard issue 7.62x25 Russia or Czech is as hot as you want to get with Tokarev or CZ52; in blowup tests with overloads, the CZ52 barrel will let go at the locking roller recess before the Tokarev or Mauser barrels will fail. Search user Clark for test-to-destruction details.

I bought my 7.62 CZ vz 52 at Appalachian Fair Gun Show in 2004 for $129.95 w. holster, rod, 2 clips, bought from an FFL dealer with NICS check (so much for "gunshow loopholes" :rolleyes: ). Mine is the late 1954 production still with the matte grey finish (not rearsenaled). The only change I made was to shrink a rubber tube over the trigger: the sharp edges hurt my finger after two mags.

I'll admit I am still learning about the 7.62x25 and 7.63 Mauser and my CZ52 and C96 pistols.

Some ballistic figures I have run across on current factory ammo:
7.62x25 85gr bullet 525 mps (1706 fps) from 250mm 10 inch barrel. PPU
7.62x25 85gr bullet 503 mps (1630 fps) from 120mm 4.8 inch barrel. S&B
7.63 Mauser 85gr bullet 460 mps (1495 fps) from 150mm 6 inch barrel. PPU
-PPU Prvi Partizan (Serbia) S&B Sellier&Bellot (Czech)

In reading about the vz-52s, they say the Czech 7.62x25 was more potent (higher pressure, more powder) than the 7.62x25 round used for the Russian Tokarevs.
Again, higher velocity can be obtained with slower burning powder at the same pressure. (Watch the muzzle flash when firing Czech ammo in a pistol compared to other 7.62x25 ammo.)

Referring to W.H.B. Smith, "Small Arms of the World", Stackpole, 1966:

The Czechs were forced, as part of the Warsaw Pact, to adopt the 7.62x25mm cartridge.

The Russian 7.62x25mm loading from the Tokarev pistol was listed at 1378 fps, and from the PPSh submachinegun (SMG) at 1640 fps from a 10.6 inch barrel. (With the Russians, their pistol came first and the SMG was adapted to the pistol round.)

In 1951 the Czechs adapted their Model 24 and Model 26 SMGs from 9mm to 7.62x25mm. However, they gave their M48 7.62x25mm cartridge a loading that gave them 1800 fps from an 11.2 inch SMG barrel. Then they adopted the new CZ vz 52 (CZ52) in 1952 a year later to use the same ammo as their SMGs. The CZ52 pistol was listed as having a 1600 fps muzzle velocity with the Czech M48 load. (With the Czechs, their SMG loading came first and their pistol was adapted to the SMG round.)

Whether the pistol (52) will function well with std. 7.62x25 ammo?
Mine (1954 production, last year) functions well with any surplus ammo I have tried. One batch of military surplus PPU with Berdan primers requires a second whack of the hammer to fire 1 out of 10 or so. The commercial PPU with Boxer primers: no problemo.

Where one would get Czech military ammo?
Don't know, but as I have said, the S&B appears to dup the M48 performance.

The rounds are so hot that over half of the necks are cracked afterwards (old surplus Polish and Bulgarian).
I suspect cracked necks is more a testament to the age of the brass than to the hotness of the load.
 
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