.38 Spl - HS-6, What to Think?

ArchAngelCD · Oct 26, 2016

I'm reading the October Handloader Magazine and since it's the 50th year of publication they are reprinting articles from the same month in 1966 in each edition this year. Along with the articles there is the original advertising. It was strange to see Speer #7 priced at $2.95! Alcan advertising is good to see to.

Then I turn the page and there is an add titled "Hot Loads From Hodgdon." At the bottom a send-in for Hodgdon #19 manual for $1.00 but on top us the hot load data. The first one is for the .38 Special using a 158gr Cast Bullet and HS-6. They list a charge of 7.0gr HS-6 generating 965 fps @ 12,100 psi. That's right, 12,100 fps, not over 20,000 PSI like most people today think. Even if the testing equipment wasn't as good in 1966 as now that is a very low pressure.

This is good because that is the charge I use for my FBI replica load and I never thought it was a high pressure load compared to factory loads reported to be @ +P pressures.

What is one to think???

GooseGestapo · Oct 26, 2016

I've used that load. It performs as stated. I don't buy the 12,600 figure, though. However, due to changes in testing methods, and other variables it's no longer a recommended load. Currently 6.6 is listed with the 158gr XTP for 926 at 18,700 CUP (not psi).
I used it with cast non gas checked cast bullets. This raises velocity and lowers pressures.
You can get away with this load in a heavy frame gun or a .357mag, but will abusive to a lighter gun.
I suggest using current data with current components. They do vary lot to lot, and over time due to different vendors.
It's analog, Win540, was listed in Lee #2 with a 158gr bullet at 7.1max for 915 at 17,300psi. (Load I used). It will come mighty close to duplicating the FBI load.

JimKirk · Oct 26, 2016

My older Hodgdon maual(25) list in CUP not PSI .... and list 6.5 grs of HS6 as a max @ 14,400 CUP

ArchAngelCD · Oct 27, 2016

JimKirk said:
My older Hodgdon maual(25) list in CUP not PSI .... and list 6.5 grs of HS6 as a max @ 14,400 CUP

I didn't say that data was in a Hodgdon manual, I said it was in the October 1966 Handloader Magazine.

Steve C · Oct 27, 2016

HS6 has always yielded relatively lower pressures for top loads compared to other powders primarily because its a relatively slow powder for handgun. Pressure measurements for ammunition was measured by the copper crush method in CUP unit the development of the Piezo measurement system in the LATE 1960's (according to Wikipedia). It is highly unlikely that any load would have been pressure tested in 1966 or prior by a method producing a PSI result since the technology didn't exist or wasn't commonly available to do so.

Personally I am extremely skeptical in the load pressure quoted of 12,500 psi for a HS-6 load of 7.0 grs behind a 158gr lead bullet as it doesn't correlate with other sources of data listed by Hodgdon or Lyman published from the 60's to now. It is most likely a miss print in the article.

JimKirk · Oct 27, 2016

ArchAngelCD said:
I didn't say that data was in a Hodgdon manual, I said it was in the October 1966 Handloader Magazine.

My point was that Hodgdon gave measurement in CUP .... it mean't nothing else ....

Even though the PSI system was in use around 1970 .... it didn't start showing up in main stream use until much later ....as far as I remember ......

JimKirk · Oct 27, 2016

Steve C said:
Personally I am extremely skeptical in the load pressure quoted of 12,500 psi for a HS-6 load of 7.0 grs behind a 158gr lead bullet as it doesn't correlate with other sources of data listed by Hodgdon or Lyman published from the 60's to now. It is most likely a miss print in the article

In the same #25 manual from above.... the .38 Special + P load is 7.3 gr at 19,200 CUP .... so it must have been a misprint ...

243winxb · Oct 27, 2016

6.3 with 163 lswc in 38 was dirty for me. Even with a mag primer

murf · Oct 27, 2016

hs-6 is too slow for 38 special pressures, imo.

murf

Sunray · Oct 27, 2016

"...Hodgdon maual(25) list in CUP not PSI..." So does their current site. And the 23rd Edition manual(1977) I have. All CUP in it. Max load of 6.5 was 14,400 CUP. No PSI's anywhere.
"...send-in for Hodgdon #19 manual for $1.00..." Probably one of the pamphlet types vs a book. Mind you, in 1966, a buck went farther and Minimum wage was $1.25 per hour.

USSR · Oct 27, 2016

I'd say it was a typo that nobody caught.

Don

ArchAngelCD · Oct 28, 2016

I'm also fairly sure there is no way that combination could generate such low pressures but it was wild to see. :neener:

murf · Oct 28, 2016

archangelcd and i are addicted to hs-6. i try to use it everywhere. that's my excuse, anyway.

murf

ArchAngelCD · Oct 28, 2016

murf said:
archangelcd and i are addicted to hs-6. i try to use it everywhere. that's my excuse, anyway.

murf

Someone once said my online name should be ArchAngelHS-6 instead of ArchAngelCD and at times I have to agree.

The original powder trinity is Bullseye, Unique and 2400 mostly because there were no others.

My powder trinity is W231/HP-38, W540/HS-6 and W296/H110. I can load any handgun cartridge with those 3 and I do. I like HS-6 a lot and use it in the .38 Special +P, the .357 Magnum especially with lead bullets, the 9mm, the 45 Colt and I even tried it in the 45-70 with a 300gr Cast Bullet. I would not want to be without HS-6 or any of the three for that matter.

JimKirk · Oct 28, 2016

ArchAngelCD .... I have shot a boat load of W540(which Hodgdon bottles and calls HS-6) .... mostly in 20 ga shotgun .... but quite a bunch in many of my handguns ..... it works and works well .... and I am getting low stock so it is time to restock .... again!

.38 Spl - HS-6, What to Think?

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