Reloading Startup Cost

kingmt said:

I'd just hate to see those with less money read this & get discouraged.

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If they are that easily discouraged then they are not going to participate in this hobby anyway. I think I have probably said this about 1200 times, my Dad handloaded and I literally grew up casting bullets, prepping brass and assembling the components. But then the time came when I had to open up my wallet for myself. I probably stewed over the cost of things for 10 years before I made the move. Looking back it's easy to say that I always knew I would do it, but, until I could make the $$$ commitment the hobby eluded me.

Again, everyone on this forum with experience knows how to buy the absolute bare minimum and make it work but a newb may not even know exactly what they really want out of reloading. I know I didn't have it exactly defined and this is the reason why I think many newbs try to replicate factory ammo in the beginning. They simply haven't determined what they are looking for in their ammo. If I had taken the advice of some and was using a Lee PPM, safety scale and that dumb breach lock ss aluminum press I would be pissed with myself these days. So I'm not going to forbid my friends from buying at the low end but I'm going to try my best to steer then in the direction of quality even if it means they have to save up the money or I have to loan them something of mine until they are ready. I have given friends brand new media separaters, electronic scales (nice ones), die sets and I've loaned out uniflow powder measures and rock chuckers. I don't want my friends pissed at me because I didn't warn then that you get what you pay for.

I want to buy a red dot for my S&W 929 revolver. I can pick one up for less than $100.00 Anyone can. People use sub $100.00 red dots all the time. But I don't want one that cheap so I'm saving up for the $390.00+ red dot I really want. I'm not going to settle for an inexpensive one and it might be 6 months before I'm ready to move forward. I've almost always settled for the entry level and for some they don't care but at this point in my life I'm getting good stuff or none at all. Different attitudes I guess but even a cheap gun costs hundreds of dollars, all of the accessories add up, ammo isn't free and unless you live in the country and have 5 acres you need a place to shoot which probably costs a few bux.

All of the stories about how someone started with a Lee mole wacker that they found on the ground during their 5 mile walk to school up hill and with no shoes really don't impress me like they used to. Cranky I guess.

bullseye308 said:

A list of basic questions the prospective Reloader needs to answer before expecting a lot of feedback, like what is your budget, how many calibers to load, purpose of said ammo, quantity of ammo per week/month/year to load, previous experience reloading or a mentor available, time available to dedicate to loading, space available, and a few others.

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So a guy wants to start handloading. He owns firearms in 4 calibers so he wants to load all four. Two are handguns and 2 are rifles.

So the guy has no money but wants to feed 4 guns in 4 calibers. No, sorry. Pick one gun, the one that he shoots the most and learn to handload that caliber. Start easy. By the time the guy knows what he's doing on 1 caliber he is hooked and if he didn't spend all his budget on entry level tooling for 4 calibers he had many months to save up to properly equip himself for the remaining 3 calibers. Take the money that might have been spent on 3 sets of dies, several calibers worth of bullets, primers, powders and brass prep tools and spend it on good solid stuff for 1 caliber.

Thomas15

"All of the stories about how someone started with a Lee mole wacker that they found on the ground during their 5 mile walk to school up hill and with no shoes really don't impress me like they used to. Cranky I guess."

In general, I agree. It really depends what you learn on the journey.

I'd just hate to see those with less money read this & get discouraged.

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If they are that easily discouraged then they are not going to participate in this hobby anyway.

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I agree with both and it really comes down to expectations. Some folks could be happy with the bare minimum providing everything they want/need and others might not be content with "premium" gear.

If there was one "best" for everyone, there would be no choices.

That said I have seen more people discouraged from poor investments in bottom dollar equipment than those that did the research and purchased equipment more inline with their expectations.

I don't mean to come across as a snob because I'm not and I'm thrilled to see others take up the hobby. I just feel that if someone asks the question we should be as frank as possible. And yes owning the best doesn't translate into wisdom/experience the same way that buying everything at a flea market translates into an Olympic Gold Metal.

After reading a lot of the discussion here, I am curious what the general impressions are of some of the more mainstream equipment that I have seen discussed numerous times.

I have been very happy with my RCBS Rock Chucker single stage, and decently happy with the lee classic turret press. Would most here generally agree these are adequate, or is there a general disdain for the lee turret presses? I know from experience the Lee turrets have varying results depending on how you set them up, I have never primed on press at all, so I might be saving myself from issues there.

I know I have recently considered getting the safety prime kit and trying it out, as my recent run of about 5,000 rounds over the course of a week, illuminated me on doing too much hand priming in batches. It really was getting to me towards the end of the run LOL......

What I do like about the hand priming, is I get lots of time spent looking each piece of brass over before priming it, it's just a matter of preference, and giving me another opportunity to find something before it becomes a problem later.

When I first started loading, safety was of paramount importance to me, and still is today. Which is why I like using a turret instead of a progressive. Running each round from start to finish is appealing, as I don't walk away for any reason until a round is completed, and there is no doubt or risk of double charging this way.

or is there a general disdain for the lee turret presses?

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I don't think so. Although I don't one one anymore (gave it to a good friend when he wanted to get into reloading), there are solid reasons to argue that they may be the best value in reloading equipment.

ar-newbie said:

Would most here generally agree these are adequate, or is there a general disdain for the lee turret presses? I know from experience the Lee turrets have varying results depending on how you set them up, I have never primed on press at all, so I might be saving myself from issues there.

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Here is an entire thread dedicated to the love some express to the Cyclops (Lee turret press). They work. You would have to work exceptionally hard to find a press today that doesn't work. There are two "problems" I see wit the LCT, the first is the safety primer is basically an after thought and the owners of said machine tend to exaggerate the speed. As JM sez if your expectation is 150 rounds/hour great but you get the impression that some have themselves convinced that the press is a "semi" progressive and thus lightning fast. It is neither. However if your on a budget it is probably the best buy.

Here is the thread... https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lee-classic-turret-press-a-love-sonnet.810476/

I had session where I produced 6000 rounds of 9mm similar to your experience, on a turret press. It was at about the half way point that I finally had the honest sit down talk with myself that I really need a progressive press.

I had that discussion with myself, however I couldn't convince myself that I can reliably keep track of all that is going on at one time, as well as I can keep track of the one round at a time through the steps. This large batch I just got done with was a one time thing, and I can't see myself going through that again. It was 5.56 ammo for a newly built ar-15 that caused that large production run, and replacing them as I shoot will not be that large of a batch again. I find the classic turret is perfectly adequate for runs of 100 to 300 rounds of ammunition.

To be honest, the 5.56 was the first time I did a large amount of rifle ammunition, and I am not a big fan of all the brass prep required. My first mistake was buying mixed once fired military brass to start out with, and that required a lot more diligence going through everything one step at a time. I did however buy a brass catcher for the ar, so I will be keeping my fire formed brass, and that will makes things much easier on the reloads.

thomas15
I generally don't agree with your thought process.

At different stages in my life I've had different incomes to work with. I consider myself good with money. I have had time in my life I didn't have$10 extra to times I had $20 I could spend on what ever I wanted. I have always had firearms since I was about 10 years old tho. However money isn't very important to me.

I have many tools & expect my tools to perform. Some of my tools are top dollar but that doesn't mean they are the best. My Snap-on tools are not the best but that wasn't my reason for buying them. I bought them because the tool man came to me within an hour of me letting him know I needed a tool. When an hour meant about $30 to me the value want in the tool. It was the fact I didn't have to spend 3 hours going to get it myself. That & my boss wouldn't have been to happy I left along with my customer not being happy they had to wait 4 hours for a one hour job. I also have Harbor Freight tools & they do what I expected them to. I've bought $7K Chinese machines that I'm very happy with & don't feel paying double would have gotten me a better one.

I have had a tool of some kind in my hand about every weaken moment for the last 30 years. I've gotten pretty good at knowing if a tool will do what I need it to do by holding it in my hands. I have been alluded a few times but not often.

All that said I still can't tell someone what the best tool for them is as a general statement. What might be the best tool for them today might not be in 10 years. Each person seeking advice should start their own thread so we can get to know them better.

Someone with a 38 revolver only shooting 50 rounds a month that has more time then money could be happy with a wack loader. Someone wanting to load for 4 different calibers would be wasting their money with the same style unless there is other reasons that would make them practical. Someone that will never own a rifle bigger then a 223 might not get the same suggestion as someone with a 50 BMG.

My point is that with this thread we can't make general statement that is going to be true for everyone since there isn't a certain person asking for advice. I agree with bullseye308 that for a general guideline & a thread worth making a sticky it should be one telling the new guy the right questions to ask to get the best advice.

Must have's:
Safety glasses
Imperial sizing wax (for rifle)

Nice to have's:
Case trimmer (I use the Lee zip trim)
Powder trickler
Case length gauge
Powder funnel
Extra decapping pins
Electronic powder scale

I have two different reloading manuals so I can cross reference loads. I also use the Hodgdon online data center.

kingmt said:

thomas15
I generally don't agree with your thought process.

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I say this in all kindness and with all sincere respect but I really don't think you have a firm understanding of my thought process.

But you did write a really nice story, a very enjoyable read.

Take care
Tom

You need to specify "Metallic Reloading" least someone think this applies equally to shot shells.

Let me share with you some posts and threads I think you find useful. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think and read through these.


The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST "
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com'soading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
http://www.thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader". This was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/293...you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model" November 21, 2010)
My post 13 is "10 Advices for the novice handloader" November 21, 2010)

The first draft of my "10 Advices..." is on page 2 of this thread, about halfway down.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

Minimalist minimal
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810

or if the links do not work, paste these into your browser

thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
(posts are #11 and #13)


rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

Minimalist minimal (the seventh post down)
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810

Good luck. Always wear eye protection, especially when working with primers and don't pinch your fingers in your press. Be safe. Always, all ways.

Lost Sheep

If you are initeresting in reloading, but lost, don't buy any gear until you are no longer lost. The ABC's of reloading (under $20 from Amazon.com, but likely available for free at your local library) is a good source for relieving confusion. Also, the early chapters of any reloading manual contains a lot of what you need to know before you can make a reasonable decision about where you want to invest your money.

Super cheap:

Safety glasses - shooting glasses will do, but I have a heavy duty pair dedicated to my loading bench.
Manual - $30 Lyman's is the most often recommended
The ABC's of Reloading $20 - no load recipes, but a good description of the process.
Lee Load-All $25
Piece of wood to go under the Load-All
Plastic, Wood or Hard Rubber mallet to drive the process (The Lee Load-All is sometimes known as "The Hammer Tool" - but don't use a steel hammer)
A scale is nice, so you know how much powder you are using, but Lee's dippers are adequate to keep you safe, and an appropriately sized dipper comes with the Load-All.

The whole setup can fit in a shoebox or nightstand drawer (manuals included) or your pockets at the range (manuals not included).

If loading at home, spread a dropcloth to catch spilled powder, dropped primers and the inevitable debris from spent cartridges. Don't use plastic sheeting. Cloth is quieter and spent (or new) primers don't roll around as much because cloth drapes better.

Loading with the Load-All is dead slow, but many started that way and some of the most accurate shooters in the world use the tools and swear by the method.

Easier and more efficient to use, but still budget-minded:

On the other hand, if you want to shoot more than 20-50 rounds a weekend (and don't have unlimited time to reload) I recommend using a press.

There are hand-held presses that can fit in a largish shoebox, but with a budget of $200, I recommend a bench-mounted press. You don't need a bench. I mounted my first press on a 2"x6" board and wedged it into the drawer of a nightstand for loading. I still use it. Nowadays, I mount my press on a folding workbench (Stanley or Black & Decker make nice ones).

My entire loading bench fits in three toolboxes, the largest of which is . (Plus the folding workbench) and that includes 7 sets of dies.

One is 23" x 10"x10" and contains my press (Lee Classic Turret), mounting system (a 2"x6" board that I clamp into a portable workbench or anything handy) a small "4"X8"X1.5" fishing tackle box to contain all the small parts & tools and the primer feeding system. There's room for a couple of manuals in there, too, but I store them on my bookshelf, with one next to the computer.

The second (15"x8"x8") contains all the gunpowder handling parts. Scale, funnel, 2 Powder measure/dispensers and a set of Lee's measuring scoops/dippers and my loading safety glasses (as opposed to my shooting glasses).

The third (15"x7"x7") contains seven sets of reloading dies, mounted in their turrets inside their plastic storage cylinders, ready to plug into the press and use.

With my folding workbench, I can set up my reloading room anywhere in just a few minutes.

Here's the inventory of gear so packaged:
Lee Classic Turret Press, 2x6 x 18" board and three carriage bolts with wing nuts
Lee Safey Primer Feed for both Large and Small Primers
miscellaneous tweezers, screwdrivers, magnifying glass, toothpicks etc.
Balance beam scale RCBS 10-10 or Lee Safety Scale. depending on my mood
Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure (two of them)
Lee Powder Scoops
Powder funnel
Safety Glasses
Seven sets of dies 38/357, 9mm, 45ACP, 45/454, 44/44mag, 41mag, 45-70


Kempf's Gun Shop sells a nice kit, Lee Classic Turret press, Primer Feeds Powder Measure and one set of dies for under $200. Add Lee's $25 Scale (some find it frustrating to use if you can't figure out how to read a vernier, but its accuracy cannot be denied)

The Kempf Kit will serve most folks admirably forever, for under $300.

You can start with just the press, dies and powder dippers for $130. Add primer feeders when you get tired of using your fingers $30. Add a good scale when you want to get more sophisticated (or near the edges of the performance envelope) with your powder measuring $25 to $100 for balance beam or $50 to $300 for electronic. Add a powder measure for $30 to $150 to get faster.

Good Luck and thanks for asking our advice.

See my next post for links to interesting reading, including my "Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader"

Lost Sheep

Budget Beginning Bench You Will Never Outgrow for the Novice Handloader

I noticed a couple of threads started recently from a couple of members and I thought reviving this thread would be worthwhile. Originally I posted it on RugerForum.net.

You can start with $150 and be minimally equipped for one caliber, and can expand from there as you have the money and feel the need for more tools. But you will have spent nothing on items you will later discard.

$204 will get you up to a really nice setup for one caliber. $287 and you have a really good setup.

$422 and you have just about everything you need to load one caliber, 100 rounds per hour at an easy pace or up to 200 if you are faster than me (and I am slow) on a continuous basis for as long as you want.

(NOTE: These dollar figures are from June/July 2010, but you should still be able to match them if you shop carefully.)

Budget another $100 for miscellaneous small tools plus $50 per additional caliber.

Bold subject line, eh? Let me qualify it down. I load for handgun only; 5 calibers, about 100-400 rounds per session and about 5,000 rounds a year. I stow my gear in 3 medium size toolboxes when not in use. If this comes close to describing your situation, you might like to read on.

35 years after starting, I found I outgrew some gear and overbought elsewhere. So, I cleaned house. I emptied my bench and populated it with the best equipment I could find precisely fitting my loading needs. I could have saved a lot of experimentation and waste if I had known back then what I know now (about handloading and about myself).

Informed by my experience reconstituting my loading bench, I compiled a list of the barest essentials that would allow a novice loader to load well and which would still be gratifying in 30 years. (In my opinion and somewhat matching my style of shooting and loading.)

I think it makes an ideal shopping list for the handloader just starting out. I hope you do, too.

Press, scale, dies, a way to measure powder and a work surface are all you need, really. Everything else just makes it easier or faster.

$17 ABC's of Reloading. Ok, it's not really equipment, but tools without knowledge is just dead weight, right?
$10 Loading Data. The "One book/One Caliber" pamphlets are $10 each and are LOADED (get it?) with loading data.
$0 Loading manuals. They cost, but I didn't want to skew the budget; you do need at least a couple. Check the local library if money is tight.
$0 Eye protection. No cost, because you DO already have a pair of shootingglasses, DON'T YOU!?
$85 Press, Lee Classic Turret (Chosen because Lee makes the only turret presses that auto-advances at the discretion of the operator and the Classic is superior to the Deluxe for several features.)
$33 Dies, carbide. Lee because it includes a shell holder, a plastic dipper for powder and the "powder through" design.
$5 Work surface. Mount your press on a plank of scrap 2x8 and secure it to a (padded) coffee table.
$0 Dropcloth to catch any spilled powder or lost primers (dead or live). Use an old sheet. Quieter than plastic, less static and drapes better.
$150 plus shipping At this point, you can reload, but are limited in flexibility and speed.
$8 Lee Scoops/Dippers. Cheaper than any powder dispenser/measure and repeatability/cosistency is excellent.
$3 Powder funnel. Lee's funnel fits right in the their "powder through" die.
$161 plus shipping At this point, you are minimally equipped to load well. Not too convenient, but not handicapped to the point of terminal frustration, either.
$22 Lee Safety Prime. You can use your fingers, but this is so much better. Fits on the Lee Press.
$21 Scale, any brand. Lee's, at $21 is cheapest. You can do without, with the full set of Lee Dippers, but better to weigh. For peace of mind if nothing else.
$204 plus shipping At this level of investment, you are decently equipped
$33 Lee Auto-Disk powder dispenser/measure. It mounts atop Lee's "Powder through" die. With this, you may not need the funnel or dippers.
$50 Loading Bench. A folding workbench works fine for me. You can get a kit or build your own, too.
$287 plus shipping Now you are well-equipped as most reloaders, except for convenience accessories or tools you will use only occasionally.

Other stuff:
$20 Bullet puller I never used one for my first 20 years of loading.
$30 Calipers I had none for 30 years. Now that I do, I find uses.
$50 Tumbler Never had one. Got one now. My brass is prettier. Shoots the same.
$10 Loading blocks ($5, if you use, use two). For batch loading. Buy, or make with a plank and a drill.
$25 Powder Trickler - handy if you weigh each powder charge.

$34 misc accessories & tools, (e.g. chamfer tool)
$60 Difference to get a more user-friendly scale than the Lee
$0 Turret and Dies for 38/357 (included with basic setup)
$46 Turret and Dies for 45/454
$46 Turret and Dies for 44
$46 Turret and Dies for 45 ACP
$46 Turret and Dies for 9mm
$700 plus shipping To duplicate my entire current loading bench with all new stuff, misc accessories and tools and I would not be in the least inconvenienced in my loading endeavors.

There are many accessories that add convenience of functionality, but are so highly optional they do not belong on this "essentials" list, or belong down near the end. Besides, if I included them all, the list would be endless.

I chose a turret instead of a progressive because I am more comfortable with performing and monitoring one operation at a time and changing calibers is dead simple. I chose a turret instead of a single stage because it facilitates processing in a "pass-through" mode (much like a progressive) rather than the batch mode of the single stage. But I still do have the option of operating as a single stage in batch mode if I choose.

You could build this list using any mix of brands. I chose Lee's brand because the Auto-indexing is not available on any other press and the Auto-Disk powder measure is the most convenient I have seen, in combination with the Lee "Powder through the Die" design. The Auto-Disk is not convenient to adjust powder quantity, but it is light and compact.

Lost Sheep

P.S.
Thanks to Sue Kempf at Kempf's Gun Shop, and Mark and the guys at Factory Direct Sales and the technicians in Customer Support at Lee Precision.

kingmt said:

Someone with a 38 revolver only shooting 50 rounds a month that has more time then money could be happy with a wack loader. Someone wanting to load for 4 different calibers would be wasting their money with the same style unless there is other reasons that would make them practical. Someone that will never own a rifle bigger then a 223 might not get the same suggestion as someone with a 50 BMG.

My point is that with this thread we can't make general statement that is going to be true for everyone since there isn't a certain person asking for advice. I agree with bullseye308 that for a general guideline & a thread worth making a sticky it should be one telling the new guy the right questions to ask to get the best advice.

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I have thought about this thread some and my responses to it. I don't want to disagree with the above or with anyone else that has a different point of view from mine. I will admit that it is possible to handload ammo on a very tight budget and I have never tried to imply otherwise.

So, it is true that you can purchase a Lee kit such as the breachlock aluminum single stage and PPM, safety scale and all you would need are the components, dies, inexpensive caliper and load data. This can be done for $180.00 plus shipping without too much stress. Buy some handgun fmj bullets, a pound of powder and a box of primers locally and this might cost roughly $85.00. So there we are, under $300.00

That above with allow an individual to handload a round of ammo that will exit to firearm. There are, depending on the individual, misc. incidentals that we either need or want. An example of an incidental that we might need is a provision to mount the press or store our materials. If you are setting up in a dark corner of your basement, the cost of lighting is then part of the cost of starting this hobby. And do you have to have something like a loading block when using a single stage press? True, you will not be arrested or cited by the reloading police if you don't use one but not having one will be a big gigantic pain in the *. There are lots of incidentals on our benches. These cost money in some form or another.

So, to finally summarize my attitude on the subject. On these internet forums there are posters asking the question how much money does it cost to get started? Is the person really asking the question in such a way that he or she actually means "I want to start handloading and want to spend the absolute least amount of money because I'm broke" and we say you need to have in your wallet $150.00 While we are technically telling the truth we are not doing the person asking the question any favors because in a very short period of time that $150.00 will become +/- $400.00

This is the reason why I say the cost to join our club is $500.00 If the person really wants to do this and wants to own equipment that will satisfy for many years and 10 of 1000s rounds then we should steer them in that direction. It is possible that perhaps just a little bit of encouragement from us to point the newcomer to spending a little more than the minimum might actually work and the person asking the question will be happier in the long run.

We as a group warn other not to trust anything we see on the internet. I will not argue with that sound reasoning but if anyone searches youtube just about every method of handloading is available for viewing. Some good some bad but this is a way of finding out what we are getting into when we purchase the tools we need to handload ammo. Not to imply that I'm personally the measure of all things, but the day I started handloading 9mm ammo, my consumption of 9mm ammo increased by a factor of about 6. I think this is typical, If I were going to plow through 500 rounds of Win white box from walmart some summer afternoon I would be thinking about how much my day is costing but as a handloader I think that the same day is going to cost me an hour at the bench.

I believe many of us that started this hobby with modest gear but are active on this forum and others when removing the nostalgia factor from our experience, would wish from a monetary standpoint started with what we have now rather than what we actually started with. Exceptions are there no doubt.

I believe many of us that started this hobby with modest gear but are active on this forum and others when removing the nostalgia factor from our experience, would wish from a monetary standpoint started with what we have now rather than what we actually started with.

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I started when I was 12. I bought a LMC 12 ga shot shell reloader from my next door neighbor for $10, he gave me what wads, hulls, shot and primers he had and I had to go get a can of Red Dot, made by Hercules back then that doubled my investment.

It would be pretty easy to sell everything I have for reloading gear, components and processes for more than enough money to never shoot all the factory ammunition I will before I die but serves wants not needs at least for ammunition that can be bought.

One can get $300 for a 5 gallon bucket of 45 ACP but you don't need that many to be a reloader.

You are jmorris, the exception, not the rule

Oh, I started cheap, with a lee breech lock kit. Around $120 as I recall. But then there are reloading trays and new presses and multiple dies and multiple powders and check weights and fancy scales and...and...and

Forget about saving money, it's an expensive hobby. Might as well have bought a horse for the way it uses up spare money.

berettaprofessor said:

Forget about saving money, it's an expensive hobby. Might as well have bought a horse for the way it uses up spare money.

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I agree with your post in it's entirety but as an individual that has owned horses on and off for many years, handloading is absolutely easier on the wallet.

But, the saying goes, a $150.00 horse and a $25k horse both eat the same amount of food. Another saying, ALWAYS look a gift horse in the mouth. The last time I checked, it cost $1100.00 to have a dead horse professionally removed from a barn yard, more if it's in the barn. Of course this was on the east coast.

What about a horse of that color or a horse of a different color?

Reloading can be, without a doubt, an expensive hobby. There are no shortage of expensive hobbies out there, my wife would testify I like all of them. Rolling ones own can be practical and inexpensive (depending on ones point of reference) to extremely expensive. I can reload using a set of Lee Dippers or sink several hundred dollars into a scale. I figure one can be a frugal reloader as one can be a frugal gourmet. Just a matter of where one wants to go with it. Nowhere is it written one must start with all brand new top of the line equipment. Matter of fact this forum like many forums has a Buy, Sell and Trade: Reloading Components and Gear section. While I did not start with the Lee Whack-A-Mole many a hand loader did. Over years a collection of reloading tools grows, there is no need to go ballistic on day one buying the entire store. Moderation really isn't a bad thing and the idea of a section of the forums devoted to reloading is for the more experienced to nurture and share their experience with the new hand loader coming up.

Finally:

thomas15 said:

The last time I checked, it cost $1100.00 to have a dead horse professionally removed from a barn yard, more if it's in the barn. Of course this was on the east coast.

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I will take note of that just in case I decide with my other hobbies I want to branch into horses.

Ron

thomas15 said:

The last time I checked, it cost $1100.00 to have a dead horse professionally removed from a barn yard, more if it's in the barn. Of course this was on the east coast.

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How much for a mother-in-law and 2 uncles???