Over seas without a gun, and I wish I'd had one. Sharing an experience.

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I lived in the UK for 6 years from 85-91, since moving back to the US I've probably made 25-30 trips to the UK and Europe, 5 to various parts of China, 7 to South Africa/East Africa, several to Singapore, several to UAE. You can get in trouble in any major city anywhere in the world, including the US. Or, with just a little common sense, you can largely avoid trouble.

There are parts of Houston I don't go to after dark, same with Pensacola, San Francisco, LA, New York... well you see the point. I've never been mugged, or robbed, or even threatened, except by a hippo on a river trip in Mozambique. Make good decisions and you will rarely encounter problems, don't go to places you shouldn't go, don't wander back to the hotel walking down the street drunk at 2 am, simple but effective decision making.
 
Some of you don't seem to realize that American facial expressions and body language are easily recognized, no matter which clothing you wear.
This can be apparent in nearby Canada.

Imagine how obvious it can be on the other side of the 'Pond'. Other countries' mannerisms/posture are not as casual as they are here, nor do people smile so often.
Do folks here not know this?

Here is the word 'gun', so the topic can continue. ;)
 
How long ago? Today I wouldn't go out alone in Paris or most of the rest of France, Brussels, or a lot of places in Germany. Czech Republic is a whole nother story, that would be fine.

Paris, Madrid, and Prague were all this year - business trips. Frankfurt was in 2006 when she tagged along for a conference I was attending and spent the days exploring the city while I was working.
 
Some of you don't seem to realize that American facial expressions and body language are easily recognized, no matter which clothing you wear.

Yes, one can stand out in a foreign country. However, shorts, flip-flops and a T-shirt says: "American Tourist" while slacks and button up shirt more likely says: "American businessman that has been here a time or two or maybe an expat working here". Also being an American in a foreign land isn't a big deal. Contrary to popular belief the world doesn't hate us.

People also underestimate how much goodwill learning even a few words of the local language will get you. Showing that you are trying helps a lot. Repeating yourself in English louder or asking if someone speaks English - in English - does not.
 
Been walking around in the cities of Europe for almost 50 years now.
Very seldom felt uneasy or unsafe, violent crimes are very low around here. That is for a guy, 6'3", 230 lbs.
Even women are safe as long as they stay in the crowd imho.

I must say I mostly carry a one-handed folding knife in my coat or jeans pocket, sometimes in my hand (hand in pocket) and my wallet is in my front pocket, when I walk certain Brussels streets alone at night.
 
Very few people here in the UK have guns and no one except the security forces carry a gun in public (except criminals of course). The legal route to firearms ownership is complicated and long winded, deliberately so. Shotguns are easier to get than other firearms and are licenced differently. Most people have no knowledge, experience or even interest in firearms of any sort. In the country most farms have shotguns and maybe some other guns for vermin control. These are generalisations of course but largely true. Violent crime is still quite rare, although knife crime is higher in recent years; most gun related deaths hit the news big time as they are mercifully rare.

I have traveled across Europe and visited many European countries and have never felt unsafe. The only place I ever felt unsafe was in Sharm El Sheik in Egypt on a diving holiday a few years ago, and then it wasn't for me I was afraid, more my wife and sons.
 
We were on a job on the Border of Scotland. We did encounter bird hunters and fellows shooting fox on a farm.
My partner and I used to being armed in America felt vulnerable in the rural hill country.

That's your paranoia talking.

In the borderlands you might get mugged for your cell phone or wallet by a drug addict (lot of them around), but the likelihood of anyone seriously injuring you if you give up your phone or wallet is remote.
 
JSH1: True, and I learned years ago to ask for "De rekening a.u.b." (in Schipol), "la addition s.v.p." etc. Most Americans seem to not want to try.
With two months in Blaubeuren ('77), working two trips into Rhein-Main in the 80s and twenty three vacations trips since, never detected any danger.

But the only places in 'eastern' Europe were Prague and Budapest. Never went to Russia.
 
That's your paranoia talking.

In the borderlands you might get mugged for your cell phone or wallet by a drug addict (lot of them around), but the likelihood of anyone seriously injuring you if you give up your phone or wallet is remote.
You make it sound like somebody has a RIGHT to forcibly take your phone or wallet.

Maybe THEY should fear physical harm instead.
 
You make it sound like somebody has a RIGHT to forcibly take your phone or wallet.

Maybe THEY should fear physical harm instead.
yes and you think it is your right to kill them. does any one know or want to fight any more? is it because most are to lazy?
 
My wife and daughter have traveled to Paris the last two summers and in the tourist areas, uniformed Gendarmes with automatic weapons where at every major monument and intersection. But they're not there to prevent individual tourist from getting rolled/mugged, rather they are there to quickly counter a Charlie Hebdo style small arms attacker.

The pick pocket crime is so bad around the Eifel Tower that the workers there actually went on strike to demand that the gub'ment do something about it. Lot's of hucksters, set ups and scams going on as well. My wife is a very savvy traveler and knows how to hold her purse and camera close and to forcefully respond "NO" to these scammer types.

The Brits rely on CCTV to catch criminals after the fact and pretty much every square meter of London is monitored. This of course, does nothing to prevent crimes from happening in the first place.

I recently attended a multi-day training program in NYC, right near Time Square and my boss insisted on walking from Penn Station to the hotel with wheeled luggage in tow. The side walks were extremely crowded with thousands of people pressing against one another, and we stood out like a sore thumb, such that I was not comfortable at all. Until we actually got to Time Square, the police presence was pretty light. Once there, the NYPD was out in force.

Penn station had pairs of NY Nat. Guardsmen armed with M9 side arms and M4 carbines every 50 yds or so. I struck up a conversation with a Sgt. while waiting for our train and he was happy for the full time billet, which was funded by DHS. Oddly, the Guardsmen were apparently coming and going to Penn Station via. Humvees, which stood out like a sore thumb on the NYC streets.
 
Interesting that much of the thread has been anecdotes:
However, statistics do not bear up that Europe, particularly the UK and France, are that much safer from violent crime. Indeed, robbery, rape, and assault rates are significant in European countries, just not homicides as of yet.

Major issue is that most of the cross national reports focus on the murder rate which is indeed higher in the U.S. than in other countries and obviously the use of firearms results in most of those murders in the U.S.

Indeed, the trend for European crime has been going up during the last few years and it has been particularly pronounced in certain countries that have significant numbers of new residents. I suspect that 2016 figures will top 2015 figures again in many of these countries.

Just a few sources that others might find interesting.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Crime_statistics
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12112024/Violent-crime-jumps-27-in-new-figures.html
http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf
 
When ever I travel internationally I order a large cut of meat for my first dinner and simply pocket the sharp knife the give me to cut it.
You can always stop on your way out for a final meal and "drop" it off.
I've never had an issue, but I refuse to not be prepared as best I can in case one comes up.

Bad idea in the UK, if you go there.
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Yes, they had posters all over about "knife crime" when I was there in 2008. They passed their laws against guns, and knives became their focus.
 
The bottom line was that England was a wonderful place to visit, but I felt positively naked without a gun and in crowds that large. There was so much potential danger I almost found it difficult to enjoy myself at times due to the behavior of my companions....
Their behavior was what made us a target. My perception is undoubtedly skewed as I actively avoid large cities, and I just spent a few days in two of the busiest cities out there, but I believe my Spidey sense was tingling for a reason.

While it's fine to be aware and cautious, I do read a lot of what you wrote as simply the perception of danger, when really there might not have been any. Of course, we'll never know. Not quite understanding the "there was so much potential danger" statement, though. And you said you actively avoid large cities, but spent a few days in the world's busiest cities. This sounds a lot more like it could be paranoia on your part than awareness to me. Total speculation.

I think that you're used to carrying a gun, and without one, your worry got the best of you in some of these situations BUT there is nothing wrong with staying alert when overseas. I applaud you for being vigilant for those around you. However, I wonder how much fun I would have if someone I was with was handling or avoiding all sorts of perceived threats, or chastising me for whatever I'm doing because I'm acting like a tourist, when in fact I AM a tourist and doing things like taking photos or asking for directions. Is it better to pull your luggage through an even worse part of town, rather than stop for directions from someone who looks like they could help? I don't know.

I travelled to London alone for a vacation, and there were police with MP5s occasionally. I thought nothing of it. You never saw a firearm in the airport, or around the palace or tower? Or did you not go to those places at all? I remember well armed police in each of those locations. The guards at Parliament and Buckingham palace had some nice looking bullpups and MP5s. Police on the streets weren't armed, though. I also thought nothing of that. I wouldn't want to mess with them, they took a drunk gal down who jumped a barricade like a WWE superstar, and were basically ready to pile on her if she resisted.
 
My sister just did a semester abroad in London. I know most of London isn't the nicest of places, and i also know my sister isn't the most observant or intelligent of people(shes young and naive) I was freaked out the entire trip.
 
I've worked in several 2nd world countries and a few 3rd world crapholes. Most times its hard to blend in, mostly its the shoes. Adopting clothing is easy, trading out good comfortable shoes for local, is a bit harder. Good brogans, absolutely no tennis shoes.

Never felt threatened, but you've got to be aware. I've been charged a "fee" to enter and leave a country, those "fees" went into pockets. Classic shake down.

I used to carry cash in different pockets, different denominations, and quantities. In a crowd, pulling out small bills and a wad of coins puts the thought out you don't have much. Though some days, not much is still a whole lot more than someone there might have.

I will say this, the list of places I was willing to go to, is much shorter nowadays than 15-20 years ago......
 
However, I wonder how much fun I would have if someone I was with was handling or avoiding all sorts of perceived threats, or chastising me for whatever I'm doing because I'm acting like a tourist, when in fact I AM a tourist and doing things like taking photos or asking for directions. Is it better to pull your luggage through an even worse part of town, rather than stop for directions from someone who looks like they could help? I don't know.
Where did I say I chastised anyone? I said earlier

"I actually did bring up my observations and a need for caution and care." Expressing a calm and rational need to keep your eyes open is not chastising.

Where did I say I told them not to take pictures? I never told them that. I simply expressed here on THR that perhaps stopping on a street to take a picture of an irrelevant sign, because it's cute, when a local person has JUST TOLD US what we were doing was not a safe activity in that area is perhaps not a real good idea.

Stopping to ask questions is fine, if you need directions. However, I had the directions, but they choose to just wander off aimlessly because they weren't paying attention. Yeah I found that frustrating. Did I chastise them for it? No, I just called them back in the correct direction. So to answer your question, no, there was no need for them to be dragging their luggage around in any unsafe part of town at all.

As far as "handling, or avoiding goes" I never told the group, we can't go here or there because it's unsafe. You go see the sights, and there are bound to be crowds. If they had told me they were going to go to an illegal dog fighting ring, that's there business, and I simply wouldn't have gone. Did I yell at my friend to stop hanging around the shell game? No. But when I saw them trying to goad him into betting, and another guy touching my friend, I stood there watching, and paid close attention. Did I yell out "Get your damn hands off him!"? No, of course not. Did I yell at the two guys approaching my friend at the train station? No. I called to my friend to let him know he was going the wrong way, and made sure the two gents did not follow.

I travelled to London alone for a vacation, and there were police with MP5s occasionally. I thought nothing of it. You never saw a firearm in the airport, or around the palace or tower? Or did you not go to those places at all? I remember well armed police in each of those locations. The guards at Parliament and Buckingham palace had some nice looking bullpups and MP5s. Police on the streets weren't armed, though. I also thought nothing of that. I wouldn't want to mess with them, they took a drunk gal down who jumped a barricade like a WWE superstar, and were basically ready to pile on her if she resisted.

I actually did not see any guns at the tower, or the palace, or the parliament building. But it was likely dumb luck that I just didn't cross paths with a LEO of any kind. Only in France. Again, maybe that's dumb luck. I don't recall at the airport.

Am I used to carrying a gun in a city. Yes. Perhaps I shouldn't have said I felt naked. It was more like leaving home without my keys or wallet. It felt odd to not have a gun on my person in that circumstance. Am I a paranoid person? I don't think so. Obviously some folks think I am. You are entitled to your opinion. But I was there. Was there a risk of theft? Yep. Was that why I would have liked to have had a firearm on me. No. I've explained that already.

The assumptions, conjecture, and words that have been put in my mouth have turned a thread that should have been about international travel, and an appreciation for American gun laws and freedom into a critique of my mental attitude. I'm done defending myself when I am the one who was there. If I did a poor job of adequately describing things, sorry. Maybe that's where the noise in this thread has come from.

Either way, this thread isn't about guns anymore, and no longer THR mission oriented. thanks to those who shared their experience and left it at that.
 
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