Who Makes A Good 7.62 Suppressor?

Ranger Roberts said:

I have an older model Omega (Silencerco) and a new Saker 762 (also Silencerco). I like the Saker better because it is user servicable and I can change the end cap if I wanted to use it on something smaller than a 30 cal.

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The Saker is not user serviceable. Yes, the mount end comes off, but that's so you can change it out with a different type of mount. And both the Saker and Omega have those features: Both have a back end that can be changed out to fit different mounts and both have replaceable end caps. And on both, the baffles are welded in place and can't be taken apart.

And that's a good thing; rifle silencers that can be taken apart are heavier, louder, and weaker. Rifle silencers don't need to be taken apart, they clean themselves every time you shoot. A thin layer of carbon will stay inside the silencer, but that layer helps protect the baffles and it makes the silencer slightly quieter. And if you notice, every time part of that carbon buildup gets too thick, it gets blasted away.

I've owned an AAC SDN-6 since 2012. I like it a lot, but it's somewhat outdated and there are now better 30 cal cans out there. The weakest point of the design is the 51T mount: Unless the ratchet part just happens to line up perfectly, you're going to get a little bit of rotational wiggle when the can is mounted. You can fix this by removing material from the angled part of the muzzle device just in front of the ratchet teeth (this is the part of the mount that the silencer shoulders on), but you'll have to keep doing it as the ratchet teeth wear down from use.

It's not really a huge deal, but other companies have better, more solid locking systems on their QD mounts. I especially like Dead Air's QD system, but there are a bunch that make better systems. Including AAC themselves: They realized the shortcomings of the 51T mount, which is why they replaced it with their 90T taper mount on their newer cans (not to be confused with the old 90T mount they previously developed for some specific cans).

I'm happy with my SDN-6, but if it got destroyed or stolen or something I'd probably buy either a Dead Air Sandman-S, a SilencerCo Saker 7.62 ASR (the new one that comes with their superior ASR mount), or a SilencerCo Omega. The Omega is quieter than all of those cans (including the SDN-6), but the Sandman and the Saker are stronger because of the full stellite baffle design (Dead Air doesn't even bother with minimum barrel length restrictions). The Sandman also has the easiest and quickest mounting system, and it's just as solid as the ASR mount used on the Saker and Omega, and much more solid than the SDN-6's 51T mount. And all of those cans except for the SDN-6 have removable endcaps, which is a nice feature. Since the most likely place to get a baffle strike is the endcap, it's nice to be able to switch it out. More than once I've seen people get endcap strikes (usually from user error from mounting the can improperly) where only the endcap was damaged. And when it was on a can that had a removable endcap all they had to do was switch the endcap out for a new one.

I see AAC offers a 91T ratchet mount, but most of their 7.62 silencers seem to come with the 51T ratchet mount . Are they interchangeable and/or compatible? (I would guess no).

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They are not.

When folks start telling you something is "outdated", when I crunch the numbers it seems not so much.
Most of the time the newer (better?) stuff may be lighter because it's made of titanium, but I often check the weight and length of some supposedly newer / better stuff and often I don't see it?

Yeah, some of the newer stuff is made out of titanium and is going to be lighter, but you have to decide how much you're willing to pay for less weight.
It also depends on how you're going to use the gun - if it's something you're going to be shooting from a bench / bipod, etc., and not toting thru the woods as you might a hunting rifle, the weight of non-titanium models probably won't make any difference to ya?

One of the previous posts is the same one I saw covering the AAC 51T system not locking up tight - I think it may be a bit overblown?
If I screw my M4-2000 on so tight that the pushbutton doesn't pop up (doesn't fully engage that last tooth), I'm leaning on it a bit. Backing off 1 (or 1/2) tooth so the button pops up and the ratchet fully engages it's still plenty tight - I see / feel no wobble, etc.

I don't know if you might be interested in this book or not?
I got it - wasn't bad, but I had already done a ton of research / buying before the book came out.
I would have enjoyed it much more if it had been available back when I bought my first cans.
https://www.amazon.com/Digest-Book-Suppressors-Patrick-Sweeney/dp/1440245320

Some shooters would probably get a lot (or need to) from the chapter on hearing loss.
Coming from heavy industry (and being an old stereo buff), I was also pretty familiar with most of that chapter.

Havok7416 said:

I think what I will do is make a spreadsheet that lays out all the pros and cons of each viable model side-by-side. Hopefully that will narrow things down a bit.

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I think you might be better served picking one for use as a baseline, and study / learn it well.
When you go shopping, compare what you're looking at to your baseline silencer.
If it's "better", make it your new baseline silencer and continue shopping.
If it's not, take you current baseline silencer and continue shopping.

Havok7416 said:

I see AAC offers a 91T ratchet mount, but most of their 7.62 silencers seem to come with the 51T ratchet mount . Are they interchangeable and/or compatible? (I would guess no).

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No. The 51T mount is what they used on their previous-generation rifle silencers. It's inferior to what most companies are offering now. The 90T is the improved mounting system they use on their latest-generation cans. For example, the 5.56 M4-2000 and the 7.62 SDN-6 are both previous-generation cans and they use the 51T mount. The SR5 is the updated version of the M4-2000 and the SR7 is the updated version of the SDN-6, and both use the 90T mounting system.

Havok7416 said:

The Saker weighs 23-plus ounces, which is far heavier than anything else I've looked at so far, but does the sound reduction make up for that?

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The Saker 7.62 has similar sound reduction to most other 7.62 cans, but it's extremely strong. It has a full stellite baffle stack and it's rated up to .300 Remington Ultra Mag and it can handle 5.56 out of a 7" barrel. Very few rifles silencers are that strong.

Havok7416 said:

Dead Air doesn't seem to offer any attenuation data on their website, which is a critical aspect IMO.

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It's not a critical aspect at all. You should completely ignore all manufacturer data on sound reduction. It's absolutely useless information.

There is no industry standard when it comes to silencer sound levels. Test numbers will vary wildly depending on the equipment used, the ammo used, the testing setting, the testing perameters, and the weather conditions. And that's assuming the companies are honest about their testing numbers in the first place. No, the only useful information on sound levels comes from third-party comparison tests where the silencers are all tested at the same time and under the same conditions. And then keep in mind that dB numbers don't tell the whole story; the subjective tone of a silencer matters a lot too, and that's not measured in tests.

Here's the thing: Centerfire rifles firing supersonic ammo are all still loud when suppressed. None are "hearing safe" and the shooter should still use some form hearing protection if more than a few shots are being fired. Of all the factors I look into when buying a rifle silencer, actual noise reduction is a low priority. Mounting system, gas back-pressure, length, weight, strength, and the manufacturer's customer service are all more important to me. As long as the silencer has dB numbers that are relatively close to other top models, that's good enough for me.

Now, for a dedicated 300 Blackout silencer, you might put sound reduction as a higher priority if you're planning to shoot lots of subsonic ammo. In that case, check out real-world third-party comparison tests and ignore the manufacturer numbers. I don't pay attention to those third-party dB tests that much, but from the ones I've seen, the SilencerCo Omega does really well with subsonic 300 Blackout. And I can tell you that in person it's pretty darn quiet; it's definitely not noticeably louder than any other rifle silencer I've fired.

basicblur said:

Most of the time the newer (better?) stuff may be lighter because it's made of titanium, but I often check the weight and length of some supposedly newer / better stuff and often I don't see it?

Yeah, some of the newer stuff is made out of titanium and is going to be lighter, but you have to decide how much you're willing to pay for less weight.

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Titanium isn't one of the newer silencer materials. Titanium is good for lightweight slow-fire rifle silencers like those used on precision rifles, but it's relatively weak and doesn't handle extended firing schedules very well. On a semi-auto (or full-auto) rifle that's going to see a lot of rapid fire, a titanium silencer will wear out more quickly than a heavier, stronger silencer using a newer baffle materiel like inconel or stellite. Inconel is what most modern hard-use rifle silencers use because it handles the heat and pressure better than titanium or stainless steel does. Now a few companies are using stellite baffles, which are even stronger than inconel.

basicblur said:

One of the previous posts is the same one I saw covering the AAC 51T system not locking up tight - I think it may be a bit overblown?

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Some people do exaggerate how big an issue it is, but I don't think it's entirely overblown. I own a 51T silencer and I've sold scores (if not hundreds) more over the years, and I'd say about three out of four 51T mounts have some rotational wiggle when the silencer is locked down. Besides being annoying, this wiggle can affect the rifle's repeatable accuracy. Also, the 51T mount is prone to carbon lock after extended shooting periods more than most other company's mounts. The 51T ratchet system is also prone to wear if you don't hold down the ratchet system when tightening it down.

AAC makes good rifle silencers that tend to be quieter than most, but they have an inferior mounting system (even the 90T mount isn't as good as mounts from companies like Dead Air and Surefire) and they have more back-pressure than most other silencers. Considering how annoying the gas-in-your-face issue can be with a suppressed AR-15, I'd rather have a silencer with less gas blowback than one that that's a little quieter. That's why my favorite 5.56 silencer is the Surefire SOCOM: it's louder than most other 5.56 cans, but it has less back-pressure, less point-of-impact shift, and an excellent mounting system.

I have a YHM Phantom .308 on my AR10.

It has been a solid suppressor and has worked well for me. I have only shot about five hundred rounds through it but I've had no problems and only paid 550

Been helping a local newbie who is now interested in getting a can (I told him to do so 8 months ago when I applied for my last one) and have been browsing videos - came across a few interesting ones.

BTW - after doing a little research, I told him (if money doesn't matter) if I was him I think I might pick Dead Air Armament as my baseline.

Here's a nice comparison video of my "old school" AAC M4-2000 and 762-SDN-6.
Comparison of AAC M4-2000, 762 SDN-6, and the SR7 with 5.56


AAC Cyclone 7.62 (308) Suppressor (Silencer) demo with downrange shots (HQ Audio!!)


7.62mm Direct Thread Suppressors

Havok7416 said:

Does direct thread offer any positives or negatives over a mount?

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I guess it's just one less thing to go wrong - it's also cheaper if you move from gun to gun as you don't need a QD mount on each rifle.

One more time...

I've been doing way too much research / browsing as I sit here with the news on in the background (multitasking, donchaknow).
The local newbie that has been picking ye olde noggin for silencer info has thrown me for a loop as he has a 7mm (higher pressures), and all my previous research stopped at 7.62 / 308, so I've been digging.

I just sent him a few more video links with this question:
I guess if you pick a baseline silencer for research, do you want to start at “the bottom” (AAC, which now appears to be the red-headed stepchild of silencers) and work your way up, or start with Dead Air Armament (one of the current new / hot tickets, true or not?) and work your way down?

One also needs to check price, as that may make a difference in your choice?

Note the date on a lot of these videos are a few years old. I guess you have to decide if that means they are tried (and true?) or outdated?
Comparing the AAC 762SD and the new 762SDN6


AAC 7.62 SDN6 Suppressor / Silencer - best multi caliber can we've ever used
Note the mention made in this video of not letting the teeth ratchet when screwing on the silencer (and he says per AAC recommendations). I've always done so as it just made sense to me (with an industrial maintenance background).

As for titanium, on another forum a representative of Gemtech had the following to say. This was on AR-15.com a few years ago.


Sigh.... The same old misinformation being parroted and repeated. This has been addressed many times before, and I can guarantee you that nobody at Gemtech said that.

The myth of titanium alloys loosing strength at elevated temperatures is one that is often repeated on these boards. While I do not know the yield strength curves for pure titanium (Grade 2), I do know them for the grades we use.

The only strength parameter of real concern in pressure vessels (like silencers) is the yield strength. This, obviously, diminishes with elevated temperature. In the case of 300 series stainless steels (the most corrosion resistant), the yield at room temperature is 30,000 psi and it degrades to 18,600 psi at 800°F. 4130 chrome-moly steel has a room temperature yield strength in excess of 150,000 psi (varying with temper). I have not looked up the degradation of yield strength of 4140 at 800°F, but assuming it degrades at the same rate as stainless, it will still be in excess of 100,000 psi. This information is readily available from the ASM International metallurgical publications.

The titanium alloy we use for our outer tubes has a yield strength of 75,000 psi at room temperature, almost 2.5 times that of stainless steel. According to the manufacturer, President Titanium, it degrades to approximately 60,000 psi at 800°F (well over 3 times that of stainless at the same temperature). No matter how you look, both at room and elevated temperature, the correct titanium alloy is a stronger material than any of the grades of 300 stainless steel.

Further, neither titanium nor stainless conduct/absorb heat nearly as well as aluminum, and the aluminum alloys we use in our pistol/subgun/rimfire suppressors has yield strengths at the normal operating temperatures seen in pistol caliber suppressors well in excess of twice that of stainless. Aluminum does not hold up at the elevated temperatures seen in rifle cartridges, but in rimfire and pistol calibers, it is more than strong enough, and it is far superior at heat transfer. Particularly in rimfire, heat transfer is an important contributor to suppressor efficiency.

The internet is a treasure trove of information, but it is also a great source of misinformation and hogwash. One would be wise to not simply repeat as fact the erroneous postings of others.

In our experience, the pitting is no worse with titanium than with stainless or most any other alloy. In a centerfire rifle suppressor, the first baffle is being hit with what is analogous to a plasma jet of superheated, partially unburned powder particles. While inconel (depending on the alloy) is affected less, it still pits. We have experimented with baffles made of heat treated chrome moly steel as well as baffles plasma coated with tungsten, tungsten carbide, and ceramic (the ceramic shatters). All pit and erode.

The only plus 300 series stainless offers is better-than-average rust resistance at a cost of significantly lower strength (especially after 100 rounds full auto). Unlike 4130 chrome moly steel, 300 series stainless cannot be heat treated.





Philip H. Dater, MD
36 years in the industry, 18 with GEMTECH

AndyP said:

As for titanium, on another forum a representative of Gemtech had the following to say. This was on AR-15.com a few years ago.
[...]

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Notice I said titanium was relatively weak. And it is; relative to stellite or inconel. Again, if you want a lighter-weight can, get a titanium one. If you want a heavier-duty can, get one with baffles made of inconel or stellite. Some manufacturers use titanium tubes to lighten things up, but they make sure the baffles are made of inconel or stellite for strength.

On a side note, silencer manufacturing has changed since Phil Dater and Gemtech were industry leaders years ago. Stellite wasn't used in silencer production, and I'll bet the other alloys have changed as well. Again, there's a reason why hard-use rifle silencers use inconel or stellite baffles instead of titanium ones.

Havok7416 said:

I looked at Thunder Beast and they don't seem to offer the sound reduction the others claim.

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We have not metered any cans that are consistently quieter than the Ultra 9 on .308.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjlL0yKZhVsJgzEpPTMcqTg/videos

Metering is a black art and the bottom line is that unless cans are metered immediately back to back using one of the about 2 mil-spec-compliant sound-level meters using consistent procedure, dB numbers are not really comparable.

Thunder Beast silencers are known for being super-quiet. Like I said; ignore the various manufacturers' dB reduction claims and instead look at independent back-to-back sound tests.

basicblur said:

Havok7416 said:

Does direct thread offer any positives or negatives over a mount?

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I guess it's just one less thing to go wrong - it's also cheaper if you move from gun to gun as you don't need a QD mount on each rifle.

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The advantages of a direct-thread silencer:

-Often the silencer is a little bit shorter.
-There is usually less point-of-impact shift when the silencer is attached.
-There is less chance of a baffle strike due to misalignment.
-Accuracy is usually more consistent.
-You don't need to buy an extra muzzle device for each gun.

The advantages of a silencer using a quick-attach mount:

-The silencer attaches much faster.
-If attached to a muzzle brake, there is often less wear on the silencer baffles.
-The rifle still has a muzzle device when the silencer isn't attached.
-The silencer is less likely to come loose when firing.
-It's easier and faster to switch the silencer out between different firearms.