OK, help AR15 noob / potential buyer :)

Off the top of my head, I'd say there isn't much difference between the two if you are looking for a range toy. I like the Sportsman's Guide offer more because it doesn't have the GI profile, has a 1/9 rifling twist, and includes a back up sight. The sight and barrel profile may not be biggies, but the rifling twist rate should (theoretically), give you more versatility when it comes to bullet selection. Then again, depending on how you shoot it, it may not make a difference.

As for price, I haven't been in the market enough to know, but they seem kind of high.

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable members out there.

It's seems to me the majority of people prefer chrome lined barrels. I don't because I find them to be less accurate generally and I'm not going to shoot my AR's enough to take advantage of the longer barrel life.

My thoughts are pretty much in line with Mokins.

I'm an AR noob too, but I picked up one of these last week and so far am very pleased with it for a entry level budget AR. Seems to be on par with what you're looking at.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/diamondback-db15-5-56-m4-carbine-25460.html?___SID=U


Just something to think about in terms of what you're getting versus price...

Wanderling said:

Can someone explain to me the advantage of this

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-premium-carbine.html

over this

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...matic-556x45mm-16-barrel-301-rounds?a=1919678

Other than the chrome-lined barrel ?

Also, are the prices high, low, just right ?

TIA !

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Generally speaking, I prefer a barrel with a 1/7 twist ratio. 1/8 is a good one also.

Either of these should do as well with the 55 grain projectiles as the 1/9 twist will.

However, they (the 1/7 and 1/8) will also stabilize the heavier 69/70 + grain projectiles while the 1/9 may or may not. Food for thought.

In my opinion, there's just no down side to a 1/7 or 1/8

I would agree that there really isn't much downside to 1/7 or 1/8. I have a 1/8 that will shoot the 55gr stuff around 1-1.5MOA at 100 yards and the heavier stuff like 77gr at under 0.5MOA, both for 5-shot groups from the bench with a bipod.

Where you at? Are there configuration restrictions in your area?

I know it's a bit old school for an AR, but I'm sort of a Rock River Arms fan. They make nice rifles all the way up to National Match.

But the big deal is what are you going to do with it? Punch paper and maybe some reactive targets like steel gongs... Maybe shoot some local matches? Hunt? Varmint?

Need more info...

Everyone has their preferred maker. This is mine. I have had good luck with them but keep in mind it's not a Colt or BCM. If you want a plinker and you are shooting 500 rounds or less a year, it should last you a long time. I like Del Ton's light weight barrel. It makes for an easy carry rifle. If you want a serious go to war rifle, there are better choices.
http://www.del-ton.com/DT_Sport_p/dtsport.htm

Major advantage to the M&P is that even their sport model has a good reputation and S&W will be there for you with warranty support. Palmetto is kind of hit or miss with some people loving them and their low prices while others having trouble getting them on the phone or to answer their email (particularly during demand surges). I've dealt with Smith & Wesson, heard decent things and handled a Del-Ton (especially more recent ones). Personally have a bare bones cheap house carbine assembled no-name which is ok and a old pre-Remington Bushmaster which I revamped. Both just work.

Regarding cost....

The psa premium looks to have similar specs to a Colt 6920. The complete psa premium m4 is within a few dollars of a Colt 6920 OEM. (Please buy what you want, but for similar money I'd encourage you to also consider that)

Considering the type of barrel steel, testing measures, receiver extension alloy, etc. I'd say it and the Colt OEM are fairly priced compared against manufacturers that build to comparable specs and materials.

I'm not sure what the average cost of an MP Sport II is nowadays so I cannot offer any useful feedback to your question on that one. Sorry.

Wanderling said:

To answer the questions:

- live in MI. No restrictions AFAIK.
- Want the gun for plinking / HD.

The Ruger AR556 seems very nice, what is a good price for one ? I heard very good things about Ruger as a company. Found one for $630 shipped, is this an OK price ?

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That is a decent price IMO. I like them.

I would get a complete upper and lower from PSA and pin them together = complete rifle. I have a freedom upper mounted to a classic lower, with BCG.....cost me $500 complete. Its been a great rifle, 100% reliable.

I have an original M&P 15 Sport without the dust cover, but with the 1:8 twist Melonite 5R bbl. Now that the Sport II has gone to 1:9 twist, and the Ruger AR-556 has a 1:8 twist CHF bbl, I'd probably buy the Ruger just to have more versatility for varying bullet weights. Both rifles are priced around $600 street (as you've already seen), so get the one you like best, or get the one you can find the best deal on if you like them equally.

That would be a fine choice. That is great starting point. You can get dealer support and it has a warranty

But, on top of the rifle you have some associated costs. I assume extra magazines. I'd get a couple. And that is a whole discussion in itself You may want a 5 or 10 round magazine if you want to go hunting, as often in that role you are restricted ...

You may want to add an optic (scope, red dot, etc.) after you become fully familiar with the rifle and it's ergonomics.

You'll need some basic cleaning stuff and some lube. You'll want to maybe attend a local AR maintenance class. Many gun shops have a 1 hour on saturdays for that.

You may want a forward light for HD. You do not want to shoot unless you know what it is. A light with a pressure switch is an option (for your forward grip hand).

The AR is the Lego's of rifles. You can build/buy anything you can think up. But there is no need to start there. Start with basic platform like you have selected. Get a few 100 rounds of ammo - say Federal (brand) bulk paks.

Get some Dirty Bird targets (the kind that highlight your hits). Go to the range and see what it's like... Very likely, if you do not have a shootin buddy, the Range Master will help you by explaining sighting in. He can't devote a lot of attention to you. But between rounds he can discuss things as he watches the "line" prepping.

All of our hints and discussion are from our perspective. I've been shootin for over 60 years. I have not touched an AR platform since discharge in the 1970's. Since I could not have my issue HydraMatic Div M16 as a civilian, I just walked away - until this year when the crazy Cali Laws started making me look for ways to tweak the mans nose.

So now I'm back in the game. But my path is WAY different than yours. And so are the others here. But collectively we can discuss stuff. And maybe some of it will be what you want

The price seems a little high on the Sport.
You might also check out the new Savage MSR Patrol, as it offers a melonite 1 in 8" twist barrel and some nice Blackhawk furniture for a similar price as the Smith and the Ruger basic AR's.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MSR15Patrol

2ndtimer said:

The price seems a little high on the Sport.
You might also check out the new Savage MSR Patrol, as it offers a melonite 1 in 8" twist barrel and some nice Blackhawk furniture for a similar price as the Smith and the Ruger basic AR's.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MSR15Patrol

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You know what, that could be interesting. I think most of the geeking out over AR specs is pretty overblown, but in this case, stuff like mid length gas and the treated barrel would actually make a real-world difference.

It's $640 on Bud's.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...4396/Savage+MSR+Patrol+15+223REM5.56NATO+30+1

The PSA has more" Milspec" features. HPT/MPI FN chrome lined 1/7 barrel is better than the sports. The receiver extension on the PSA is 7075 the sport has a lower quality receiver extension as well. The bolt on the PSA is MPI tested and full auto profile, not sure what the sports is. PSA does make good on waranty issues, but it would probably be easier to deal with S&W. If its just a plinking gun both would be fine. Check out mrgunsandgears YouTube review of the Sport 2 . It was very accurate, but he does go over some short comings. The Aero Precision AC15 is the best "budget gun out there IMO. It offers better parts than the Sport 2 for similar cost. Primary Arms has it for like $529 right now. MrGunsandGear also has a review on that rifle

Wanderling said:

Well, thanks to everyone for help.

I did a lot of reading and searching and ended up ordering an S&W Sport II that hopefully should be here in a couple of days. I had my heart initially set on Ruger AR-556 but saw complaints about spotty accuracy and some potential QC issues - while I am sure this is blown out of proportion, it did make me lean towards S&W that seems to have far fewer complaints. I will likely never shoot long distance so the 1:9 twist rate doesn't bother me. Found Sport for $499 and free shipping, seems to be a reasonable price.

I figured I don't know enough about the platform and my shooting preferences to get into something more "upscale". For the same reason I decided to buy an already assembled rifle.

My last two questions, for now:

• Since I want this to double as a HD gun, I won't be putting a scope on it. I still want something better than the regular iron sights for shooting at 100 yards. Something that can be used quickly yet is more accurate than the stock sights. Not sure if this means red dot, or holographic, or anything else. Open to suggestions. Would like to keep it around $70 or so, if possible.
• The rifle comes with one mag, any recommendations on what mags to buy ?

Thank you again !

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I like Magpul pmags and usgi aluminum 30 rounders. Specifically, I like the psa branded D&H aluminum mags and Okay Surefeed aluminum mags.

I'd encourage you to get a few of each and see what you like best.

MPS is a very solid entry carbine, and will serve every function a civilian will use an AR for with the exception of long range target shooting. That can be done with a barrel swap. Good buy. Enjoy.

Maybe I'm weird, but I like the straight 20 rounders. They're no more reliable than any other magazine, but I like the shorter profile and 1 ammo box in 1 mag just seems like a nice ratio. Brownell's sells them for about $10 each.

Several buddies have versions of the M&P. I am not impressed. Most that I've seen don't even have plinking accuracy until you try a half dozen different loads and stumble upon something it likes. Reviewing pics of groups from a recent range trip shows most groups over 12" at 200 yards with GI ammo. With pricey ammo, groups shrank to 8" at 200 yards. Something is wrong when shrinking groups to 4 MOA with expensive ammo seems like progress.

I'm from the school that only accurate rifles are interesting. When friends ask, here is what I recommend:

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index...tegory_id=228&CFID=596014616&CFTOKEN=25571314

Wanderling said:

Well, thanks to everyone for help.

I did a lot of reading and searching and ended up ordering an S&W Sport II that hopefully should be here in a couple of days. I had my heart initially set on Ruger AR-556 but saw complaints about spotty accuracy and some potential QC issues - while I am sure this is blown out of proportion, it did make me lean towards S&W that seems to have far fewer complaints. I will likely never shoot long distance so the 1:9 twist rate doesn't bother me. Found Sport for $499 and free shipping, seems to be a reasonable price.

I figured I don't know enough about the platform and my shooting preferences to get into something more "upscale". For the same reason I decided to buy an already assembled rifle.

My last two questions, for now:

• Since I want this to double as a HD gun, I won't be putting a scope on it. I still want something better than the regular iron sights for shooting at 100 yards. Something that can be used quickly yet is more accurate than the stock sights. Not sure if this means red dot, or holographic, or anything else. Open to suggestions. Would like to keep it around $70 or so, if possible.
• The rifle comes with one mag, any recommendations on what mags to buy ?

Thank you again !

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For $70 the Bushnell TRS 25 is your best bet. If you can go up to 80-90 Primary Arms makes an excellent micro red dot as well. Sometimes you can catch them on sale. In that price range I would stay away from holographic or reflex style. The ones worth buying are at least $200ish