Questions About M1 Garand Field Stripping

I've never heard of field-stripping affecting accuracy. If there is some difference in tension of the stock against the barrel after re-assembly, the point of impact might be changed a little--but that only means a slight sight adjustment.

I'd not argue against a support tool for the gas cylinder, but padded-jaw long-handled slip-joint pliers might work okay. IMO, for a regularly shot Garand, I'd install an adjustable gas plug so that factory loads could regularly be used without bending the op-rod.

Since you're NOT after N.M. accuracy, field stripping after each range session isn't going to have much effect on accuracy, I wouldn't think. But it really isn't all that necessary to pull the action out of the stock after each range session. A simple field cleaning can be done with the rifle assembled. All M-1s from day one had stainless steel gas cylinders, for that reason.

Repeated removal and reassembly can wear the lugs on the trigger housing, which loosens receiver/stock lockup and can hurt accuracy. Repeated cleaning from the muzzle with GI steel cleaning rods probably did more damage to accuracy than anything else however. No reason not to keep it cleaned and lubed.

The accuracy "thing" is about the fit of the trigger assembly base plate to the bottom of the stock.
This is typically finished a bit "proud" which makes for stiff/tough disassembly. Eventually the stock grain compresses, which makes disassembly easier, but, that fit is what holds the receiver into the stock.
However, as stated above, if you are not after National Match accuracy, then all will be good.

As to the question of "why did this not effect GIs?" we have to remember that the MilSpec acceptance accuracy was 4 MOA, with a send back to unit armorers at around 6 MOA. A far cry from the out-of-the box accuracy we all demand of rifles today.

1KPerDay said:

Repeated removal and reassembly can wear the lugs on the trigger housing, which loosens receiver/stock lockup and can hurt accuracy.

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Keep the trigger guard loose when the rifle is stored. Do this to properly seat the barrel group when the rifle's assembled:

1. With the trigger guard loose and the barrel group resting in the stock, push the rifle muzzle against a solid surface, then press the stock hard forward against the receiver legs hard.

2. Snap the trigger guard into place. Now the barrel group is hard against the stock and won't shift during the first few shots which otherwise would hurt accuracy a bit..

Repeated cleaning from the muzzle with GI steel cleaning rods probably did more damage to accuracy than anything else however.

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I disagree. After wearing out a few Garand barrels, each one had the metal worn away at the muzzle such that diameters there had opened up over .001" to .002". There was no copper was the last 3/4" of the bore; proof the cleaning rod had rubbed metal away.Yet accuracy and barely degraded.

When new, those match barrels would group in tests about 4 inches at 600 yards with handloads or commercial match ammo. 4000 rounds later at their end of accurate life, tests showed they grouped about 6 inches at 600. In spite of having "blunder buss" bore/groove enlargement from bare steel cleaning rods in and out several times every 50 to 60 rounds. Note the muzzle condition was very repeatable over a 10 to 20 shot string of fire. Their throats had also advanced almost .090" down the bore after that many rounds increasing bullet jump to the lands about .001" every 40 or so shots.

Probably and Yes.

I have one M1 that will not shoot well after I pull it out of the stock. Takes 1 or 2 full clips before it'll settle back down and start behaving.

The gas cylinder lock needs to be supported when you pull the gas plug or the gas cyl fit will degrade. You can peen it tight again; not a difficult operation, but a lot of people are uneasy about applying a hammer to their rifle barrel. You can buy the gas cyl wrench tool, or simply clamp the gas cyl lock into a vice or padded wrench when you go to pull the gas plug.

Frankly, the gas system takes care of itself and doesn't really need to be cleaned. Mop off what you can reach with q-tips and patches, do the bore, replace the grease, wipe off virtually all of the new grease, and put it away.

I agree with the advice to field strip about every 300 rds. I don't think it is necessary to do more. You can reach almost all of the recommended grease points from the outside, and as many posters have indicated, the POI might change a little when removed from the wood.

when i was shooting in matches with my m1A-7.62x51, a man who shot quite a lot told me that he only cleaned it when the action got slugish and loosened the trigger group(not taking it out)to keep the wood from compressing. he shot pretty good,comming in fifth or better. eastbank.

If you aren't worried about match grade performance then don't worry about all this minutia, if you want it to be a battle rifle then treat it like one, the same as every soldier was trained to treat it. All these details that everybody is talking about are important if you are worried about keeping the rifle in National Match condition for ranges of 600 or more yards, for the average guy they don't really matter.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/cleaningrodmuzzleguidedeweym1.aspx

Buy this and you have little to worry about cleaning from the muzzle. Turn the rifle over to keep the action and gas system from getting solvent in them.

1KPerDay said:

Repeated cleaning from the muzzle with GI steel cleaning rods probably did more damage to accuracy than anything else however. No reason not to keep it cleaned and lubed.

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Errrr, how else are you gonna clean it?

tark said:

Errrr, how else are you gonna clean it?

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Errrr, ever hear of a nylon coated cleaning rod?

tark said:

Errrr, how else are you gonna clean it?

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Some people use a plastic coated wire fixed to a threaded brass collar in the a brass patch loop at one end and a bore brush ot patched jag in the other end. A precursor to the Bore Snake. Push the wire into the breech end then out the muzzle. The rest you probably know by now.

The neck of a 270 Win case is a nice fit in the muzzle. Keeps rods from rubbing the bore.

I think the main reason the military went with strip it every time it gets put away was because when the M-1 became standard US ammo for it was all CORROSIVE. If you shot it and put it away in the arms room racks you were supposed to draw the weapon after 3 more days and clean it again and return it to the rack and if it was to be stored longer than a week before next use you pulled the weapon and stripped and cleaned it again at the seven day mark.

The rifle could of course be cleaned using the 1903 rifles pull through for bore work. Some of the early butt cleaning kits had that same double ended tube with weight, thong, patch holder/ bore brush attachment on one end and a bit of oil in the other. There was also a small pot of the heavy grease available. Once the jointed rod became available folks found them easier to use even if they were not as nice to the barrel. Toward the end the jointed rod sections had one section that featured a nylon ring around it to prevent damage to the muzzle crown. Be fore that the idea was that (if you will examine the small bolt too/screw driver/rod handle) that one side of the tool/handle features a bezel that supposedly fit the shape of the crown. Troops frequently ignored that or were unaware it made a difference which way the handle went on slammed the handle and rod home with flat steel on curved steel, a bad thing.

Many of the later model M-1/ M-14 rifle racks would not allow you to rack your rifle and lock it with out the trigger guard engaged.

I rather liked the USMC bunk lock. Basically one had one of the old style long bail bicycle padlocks and ran the bail through the hole on the safety while the rifle was on safe and the safety inside the trigger guard. The bail was then slipped through one of the rails on the end of the bunk and the rifle locked to that bunk head or foot board. So locked with the safety engaged the rifle could not be disassembled and taking the rifle involved taking the head or foot board as well! Of course this meant the rifle had to be fully assembled to lock it as well.

As a civilian with my rifle in my personal safe (or in your case maybe over behind the door) leaving the trigger guard unlocked so as to not compress the wood is an option. For the typical GI it was not. Among the many not authorized tricks for annual qualification was placing wedges made of split wooden match sticks between the trigger group and the stock. The same material got used by some to push the fore grip forward tightly against the Gas Cylinder so that bit of wood and steel did not bounce about. I understand that either will get you DQ'ed in sanctioned matches of any sort.....but GIs did it to make "Pro-pay" or the promotion points an expert rifleman badge was worth.

-kBob

How many of you "Garanduers" put the rear sight at mechanical zero then adjust the front sight side ways to zero in windage shooting the rifle? That's why the front sight has a screw to tighten it where windage zero is at. The sight may end up 1/16th inch off center on its dovetail base.

I would only disassemble my Garand annually, at the end of the match season. Unless the rifle got really wet, I never saw a reason to do so more often. Grease can be added to the most pertinent parts with the gun assembled. I have never been one to clean barrels, I just run an oily patch down the chamber and bore when I am done shooting, then a dry patch before the next outing.

MCMXIautomatic said:

Personally, I think that setting the sights at mechanical zero is a superfluous step. I think it's better to just shoot the rifle, see where the shots are grouping, and then make your adjustments accordingly. If your point of aim and point of impact already match up, then the rifle is zero'd and nothing more needs to be done. Also, what I did was I zero'd my rifle at 27 yds, and then confirmed zero at 200. I believe this is how the military did it.

Also, I didn't mess with the front sight. I did all my adjustments with the rear sight only.

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Having your sights zero'ed made adjustments for non-standard shooting easier, such as longer ranges or stiff winds. You had a stable "baseline" to start from and easily return to.

MCMXIautomatic said:

Also, what I did was I zero'd my rifle at 27 yds, and then confirmed zero at 200. I believe this is how the military did it.

Also, I didn't mess with the front sight. I did all my adjustments with the rear sight only.

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The military standard was to zero at 200 yards then set the elevation knob to "2"; its 200 yard point, then tighten its set screw. Then the rear sight number points represented zero settings for ranges on those hundred yard increments. Some units zeroed at 1000 inch (~28 yards) targets first so they would be on small paper at 200 yards; they hit about 3 to 4 inches low at 200 yards..

If the rear sight was set to mechanical zero for windage then adjusted the front one for windage, that simplified the task of going back to zero from some wind correction setting. Standard procedure for military rifle teams. And smarter combat units did that so any rifle used by anyone would have its sights starting at the same marked settings. No need to manage different clicks from mechanical zero's to range zero's and having to pass them along with the rifle.

macgrumpy said:

Errrr, ever hear of a nylon coated cleaning rod?

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My point was.....You're gonna clean it from the muzzle no matter what kind of rod you use.

MCMXIautomatic said:

Firstly, I'd like to know what you guys think about field stripping and how it affects accuracy. According to this tutorial at garandgear.com: http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-barrel-cleaning , I should only strip the rifle down every 300 rounds or so for a thorough cleaning and re-lubing, as they claim that regular field stripping has a negative affect on accuracy. But on the other hand, soldiers were trained to do this on a fairly frequent basis, and it doesn't seem that it affected the rifles at all in combat or marksmanship training. So what's the deal? To be perfectly clear, I am not concerned about match-grade accuracy. If I can repeatedly tear the rifle down, reassemble, and then still get decent, consistent groups on a pie plate-sized target out at 200 yards, then I'd say I'm pretty happy with that.

My second question is about removing the gas plug. Garandgear sells a special tool (shown in the above link) that is designed to support the gas cylinder when removing the gas plug. They say that this is to prevent the torque from being transferred to the barrel splines and eventually causing the gas cylinder to become loose and degrade accuracy. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to use this tool, but do you guys think something like this is an absolute necessity for preserving accuracy? I ask only because I'm just a little bit hesitant to spend a lot of money on specialized tools for an as-issued combat rifle. Thanks for your input.

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While I have a few M1 Garands I learned on the M14 as a then young Marine. We tore down those rifles and put them back together every day, long before a week of dry fire and snapping in. The week of snapping in and second week of live fire we tore those rifles down every night and reassembled them. My dope never really changed. All the dope I acquired live fire pre qual despite constant field stripping worked just fine qual day (Thank God). Of the two M1 Garands I have one is a gun I used for school. The rifle is bedded and all the accuracy modifications done. I very seldom take that rifle down, I don't even lift it or pick it up by the forward section or hand guard. The other is a basic no frills shooter. I never give shooting and cleaning a thought. That includes fully stripping the rifle down. The same elevation and windage dope applies. If there is any change I never noticed it all the way out to the 500 yard line in the prone.

As to the gas tube plug? Long before anyone was inventing a better tool people were using 1/4" socket drives on gas plugs. Again, unless you have a high end match rifle I doubt it will matter much how you remove the gas plug. So again on a match rifle I would not constantly be field stripping the rifle to clean it but for a shooter rifle I wouldn't give it a second thought. The same is true for the gas plug. If a fancy wrench trips your trigger than by all means go for it but for a shooter I do not see a need.

Ron