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.357 load for 4" K-frame

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Guy B. Meredith

Guy B. Meredith

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What is a powder that will burn efficiently for a 4" barrel in .357 with 158 gr X-treme copper plated bullets and WPS primers? Also needs to meter well in a Hornady LNL AP powder drop.
 
When loading for a handgun there is no need to change powders with different length barrels. The powder that will give you the highest velocity in a 6" barrel will do so in the 4" barrel too.

Any "magnum class powder" will work so if you already load for the .357 Magnum give your favorite powder a try. W296/H110 does not like to be downloaded so use it only for full power loads. 2400 is the old standby but AA#9 will meter better because it's a spherical powder. Neither require a magnum primer like W296/H110 does.

If you can find a bottle of AA#9 give that a try.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
When loading for a handgun there is no need to change powders with different length barrels. The powder that will give you the highest velocity in a 6" barrel will do so in the 4" barrel too.
Click to expand...

The figures for H110 looked good, but I was concerned that something burning too slowly would still be burning after the bullet left the muzzle with a huge muzzle flash.

LoneGoose, how many grains are you using, what bullet weight?
 
I use 15.3 gr. H110. 6.6 gr. CFE pistol. 5.8 gr. TITEgroup.

be careful, all of my notes are for Hornady XTPs which are jacketed bullets. Lead and clad bullets will be loaded lighter.
 
The flash from h110 out of my 4" 357 is only really noticeable in low light. In bright daylight I don't even notice it. I would use unique for a mid range load with plated bullets.
 
It really depends on what kind of load you want. Full house Magnum , Target, plinking, Whatever??

Also plated bullets are not ideal for Magnum loads. They have no crimp groove or cannelure

From their web site.

Load Info
Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp

Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp

All of our Hard Cast Lead Bullets are approximately 18 on Brinell, our Cowboy lead bullets are approximately 15 on Brinell.
 
"...burning after the bullet left the muzzle..." That really doesn't matter. Lot of the burning gases go out the cylinder gap. As mentioned, the muzzle flash is only evident in low light anyway.
"...require a magnum primer like W296/H110 does..." Neither of those powders require a magnum primer. You'll note that Hodgdon does say use 'em with H110/296 in .30 Carbine or any other non-magnum named cartridge. You might get slightly higher pressures if you do, but not enough to matter.
"...Also plated bullets are not ideal..." A steady diet Magnum loads are not considered ideal for 'K' frames either.
 
I loaded up 50 .357 magnums with 125 grain XTP's and 21gr (starting load in my Lyman manual) of H110. The muzzle and cylinder gap flash is most impressive from my 4" 686+. Not very practical for a self defense round, though. I'll be experimenting with other powders :D
 
Plated bullets are fine for practice but don't need the velocity one would use on a JHP defense of hunting bullet. Faster powders leave less residue in a handgun since you use less of it in a load. A medium burn powder like Unique will work well as will other powders with similar burn rate. Other powders that should be good would be Universal, BE-86, CFEPistol, AA5. Use lead bullet data for copper plated bullets.

As for the powder measure use the pistol rotor and metering insert for charges of 10 grains or less and the standard measuring setup for heavier charges greater than 10 gr. or with Trail Boss which is high volume low density powder (special case). Run a half dozen charges or so through the meter and weigh each one till the powder in the feed tube settles and the meter throws consistent weight. I have 2 Hornady measures, one on my AP and one individual set up for single stage reloading. The measures work great as long as I use the right metering set up.
 
Rule3 said:
It really depends on what kind of load you want. Full house Magnum , Target, plinking, Whatever??

Also plated bullets are not ideal for Magnum loads. They have no crimp groove or cannelure
Click to expand...

I am looking for an accurate, full house magnum. Originally I saw a reloading table showing very high velocity (less than the limit suggested by X-treme) and low pressure. The combination is attractive, but I assumed the low pressure is from slow burning meaning some would still be burning after the bullet left the 4" barrel.

The X-treme bullet do have the groove which is one of the reasons I use them.

XC38-158HP-B0500-2.jpg
 
Last edited:
"...Also plated bullets are not ideal..." A steady diet Magnum loads are not considered ideal for 'K' frames either.[/QUOTE said:
I think the issue is with light bullets and fast burning powder which is the reason I stick with 158 gr bullet and am looking for a suitable slower powder.
Click to expand...
 
The muzzle and cylinder gap flash is most impressive from my 4" 686+. [/QUOTE said:
I haven't measured yet, but I think that the B/C gap on the M66 K-frame must be smaller than on my 686+ as I chrono higher velocity from the M66 than the 686+ with the same load. The M66 is 4" while the 686+ is 6". I've had some interesting displays out of the 686+ at twilight, but have not checked for the B/C flare on the M66.
Click to expand...
 
Guy B. Meredith said:
The combination is attractive, but I assumed the low pressure is from slow burning meaning some would still be burning after the bullet left the 4" barrel.
]
Click to expand...

I doubt it, most flash and blast is from ignition of incompletely oxidized hot gas hitting air.
But even if it did blow out some powder, so what? As long as the bullet does what you want and the load is easy on the gun, the rest is immaterial.
 
Guy B. Meredith said:
I am looking for an accurate, full house magnum. Originally I saw a reloading table showing very high velocity (less than the limit suggested by X-treme) and low pressure. The combination is attractive, but I assumed the low pressure is from slow burning meaning some would still be burning after the bullet left the 4" barrel.

The X-treme bullet do have the groove which is one of the reasons I use them.

View attachment 234177
Click to expand...

OK, I did not know that. It is still plated and a heavy roll crimp can not be used. They recommend a taper crimp.

I would try 2400 powder, it was/is "the" 357 mag powder. It can be downloaded a little unlike H110

The slower burning powders still burn up before they reach the end of the muzzle, faster powders just burn quickly and build pressure fast
You are better off with powders that are slow. You can get good results with Unique and slower.

Look at the load data in any manual or powder company, the slow powders produce the higher velocity. Even with H110 I doubt you will exceed the 1500 fps Xtreme recommends.

In reality shooting full house magnums in a K frame can get a bit old after a few cylinders unless you are a recoil junkie and like abuse.:)

The 686 mentioned above is a L frame a bit heavier. Shooting a lot of heavy loads with a K frame will eventually wear the thinner forcing cone compared to L and N frames (yes it will take a lot)
 
Guy B, most times muzzle flash isn't the powder still burning as the bullet leaves the barrel, it's the hot gasses reignited by the new source of oxygen available when the gasses hit the air when the bullet leaves the barrel. There is nothing you need to worry about when that happens.
 
"In reality shooting full house magnums in a K frame can get a bit old after a few cylinders unless you are a recoil junkie and like abuse.:)"

Yeah, tell me. Quite brisk. I've shot some Federal rounds that are something else. I really have to go into meditation mode for those.
 
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