First 38 Special Loads = Crushed Cases
- Thread starter pcwirepro
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EMC45
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"Pcwirepro if you want to keep your expansion to a min. and not shave a cast bullet check out the Lyman M die."
I use the Lee Universal expanding die and it works wonders! The Lyman "M" die is good, but it caliber specific. The Lee Universal is.........wait for it......wait for it.....UNIVERSAL!
I use the Lee Universal expanding die and it works wonders! The Lyman "M" die is good, but it caliber specific. The Lee Universal is.........wait for it......wait for it.....UNIVERSAL!
What makes the M Die better? More gradual taper?
The literature on the Lee Universal states "Includes neck plugs for 22 through 45 caliber" does that mean you're changing between calibers?
I measured everal cases tonight and found sizes ranging between 1.136-1.150. Most came in at 1.142.
I'm thinking I may have a crappy die because there's a slight bur on the case after the seat/crimp that is not there after flaring the case. Hard to explain but if I slide my thumbnail off the leading edge of the case there's a definite edge there.
Lyman M die
Redding basically copied it. I have several and they work great with plated or jacketed. With lead you have to run them deeper in the case than I like, so I use regular belling dies.
Redding basically copied it. I have several and they work great with plated or jacketed. With lead you have to run them deeper in the case than I like, so I use regular belling dies.
Silver lining
I forgot to mention.. tonight while running a few more test loads to try and get a better idea of whats going on, I was out of Hornady One Shot so I used some older Cabelas spray with lanolin. WOW! What a difference.
I switched to One shot when I got the LNL. I was so happy with the press I didn't notice how crappy that stuff is as case lube. Anywho... I'm back to the real lube from now on.
I forgot to mention.. tonight while running a few more test loads to try and get a better idea of whats going on, I was out of Hornady One Shot so I used some older Cabelas spray with lanolin. WOW! What a difference.
I switched to One shot when I got the LNL. I was so happy with the press I didn't notice how crappy that stuff is as case lube. Anywho... I'm back to the real lube from now on.
Hmmm. I'm still looking at a PTX or similar powder/expander die so I can add a Dillon alarm. Even more so now that I'm using those tall 38 cases with only a drop of powder in them. That reminds me, I need a better light to confirm charges.
Too many choices.
FWIW the new rounds shot like a dream.
Too many choices.
FWIW the new rounds shot like a dream.
Last edited:
Skylerbone
Member
PC, am I missing something or did you now twice state that you were using spray lube on your .38 brass? Pistol dies are carbide and pistol brass, with few exceptions (5.7 comes to mind as does .357 sig) is straight walled. No lube is needed nor should it be used to size your .38 spl brass.
I recommend removing your dies and spraying them down to remove any build up of lube inside. Try brake cleaner, it's cheap and effective.
As for crushing cases, start trimming to a uniform length to avoid excess variation between rounds. The Lee dies will never over crimp (it's in their literature and I've yet to prove them wrong). Flare the cases as much as you have to to make them work, better to get 1 or 2 fewer firings out of the case than crushing it and getting none.
We're all learning here and I'm glad you came looking for help. It took me a long time to realize how little I knew but very little time to learn what I had to know.
Good luck and stay safe.
I recommend removing your dies and spraying them down to remove any build up of lube inside. Try brake cleaner, it's cheap and effective.
As for crushing cases, start trimming to a uniform length to avoid excess variation between rounds. The Lee dies will never over crimp (it's in their literature and I've yet to prove them wrong). Flare the cases as much as you have to to make them work, better to get 1 or 2 fewer firings out of the case than crushing it and getting none.
We're all learning here and I'm glad you came looking for help. It took me a long time to realize how little I knew but very little time to learn what I had to know.
Good luck and stay safe.
Skylerbone,
All of my dies are carbide sets but I still use lube. The press just seems to run so much smoother and I figure it can't be hurting anything. Dies are squeaky clean. I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to gunk and spilled powder. I'm looking at trimming as a solution to my crushed case issue. Did you read the "I measured everal cases tonight and found sizes ranging between 1.136-1.150. Most came in at 1.142." comment? Does that sound like the culprit to you? I'm still stumped by "I'm thinking I may have a crappy die because there's a slight bur on the case after the seat/crimp that is not there after flaring the case. Hard to explain but if I slide my thumbnail off the leading edge of the case there's a definite edge there."
All of my dies are carbide sets but I still use lube. The press just seems to run so much smoother and I figure it can't be hurting anything. Dies are squeaky clean. I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to gunk and spilled powder. I'm looking at trimming as a solution to my crushed case issue. Did you read the "I measured everal cases tonight and found sizes ranging between 1.136-1.150. Most came in at 1.142." comment? Does that sound like the culprit to you? I'm still stumped by "I'm thinking I may have a crappy die because there's a slight bur on the case after the seat/crimp that is not there after flaring the case. Hard to explain but if I slide my thumbnail off the leading edge of the case there's a definite edge there."
BADUNAME37
Member
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- Aug 10, 2008
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If that is an RCBS Die, I would call them.
They are really good about sending you a new part, in this case, most likely a new die!
I realized after two years that my Rock Chucker IV did not come with the little primer arm & two primer seats.
I called them and a woman was very cordial and they mailed them and within several days I had a bag with all the little parts that comes with the press - some in duplicate of what I already had!
They are really good about sending you a new part, in this case, most likely a new die!
I realized after two years that my Rock Chucker IV did not come with the little primer arm & two primer seats.
I called them and a woman was very cordial and they mailed them and within several days I had a bag with all the little parts that comes with the press - some in duplicate of what I already had!
Skylerbone
Member
Toss the brass (recycle) or see if you can get a refund. My guess is someone loaded it, used a HARD crimp, fired it then trimmed all that mangled brass off only to realize it was too short.
It sucks but that brass is too short excepting maybe the longest of it. That, however is not the problem in question.
I know the manuals say to avoid excessive flare to prevent excess stretch etc. I think you're being overly cautious. I seem to remember crushing a few myself thinking I was flush when what I actually felt was the sides of the brass contacting the die. I had run the ram to the top and screwed the die down to a waiting case, felt resistance, locked the die, lowered the ram and added one turn on the die. Didn't flare anything, only shaved lead and crushed cases.
Set it up again and make sure the case is flared with a flat base bullet (some are chamfered like a BT) and see if you can insert the bullet by hand and keep it aligned. As long as the flare is less than 1/3 of your seating depth, you'll be fine.
One other thing, stop using lube. It's a must for rifle and steel dies but is a waste of time for pistol. You chance contaminating powder and primers with it and a squibb stuck in the barrel is no fun. I saw first hand the remains of a very expensive collector's revolver with 5 bullets neatly stacked in the barrel. The sixth shot (he used ammo that came with it as he only intended to fire it a few times due to it's age and value) blew the frame and cylinder apart beyond repair. He later had it sawn in half and donated it to my club for safety seminars.
No others I know (and there are a few...dozen) lube pistol brass.
It sucks but that brass is too short excepting maybe the longest of it. That, however is not the problem in question.
I know the manuals say to avoid excessive flare to prevent excess stretch etc. I think you're being overly cautious. I seem to remember crushing a few myself thinking I was flush when what I actually felt was the sides of the brass contacting the die. I had run the ram to the top and screwed the die down to a waiting case, felt resistance, locked the die, lowered the ram and added one turn on the die. Didn't flare anything, only shaved lead and crushed cases.
Set it up again and make sure the case is flared with a flat base bullet (some are chamfered like a BT) and see if you can insert the bullet by hand and keep it aligned. As long as the flare is less than 1/3 of your seating depth, you'll be fine.
One other thing, stop using lube. It's a must for rifle and steel dies but is a waste of time for pistol. You chance contaminating powder and primers with it and a squibb stuck in the barrel is no fun. I saw first hand the remains of a very expensive collector's revolver with 5 bullets neatly stacked in the barrel. The sixth shot (he used ammo that came with it as he only intended to fire it a few times due to it's age and value) blew the frame and cylinder apart beyond repair. He later had it sawn in half and donated it to my club for safety seminars.
No others I know (and there are a few...dozen) lube pistol brass.
Seedtick
Member
Aah, I do...
I lube my .357 and .45 Colt with 'One Shot' spray.
It takes very little time to do using a plastic bag and it makes sizing almost effortless.
It also eliminates that annoying little squeak you sometime get.
Is it necessary? No, I guess not but it's worth it to me.
YMMV
ST
I lube my .357 and .45 Colt with 'One Shot' spray.
It takes very little time to do using a plastic bag and it makes sizing almost effortless.
It also eliminates that annoying little squeak you sometime get.
Is it necessary? No, I guess not but it's worth it to me.
YMMV
ST
I don't normally lube cases for carbide dies, but if you are doing a really big batch, it sure helps with fatigue. If I am doing more than 50 .44 Mag cases, which are some of the toughest to size, I sometimes use lube. Most times I just consider it good exercise for my throwing shoulder.
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