Three of the more popular polymer frame pistols...a matter of prospective

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My problem is that I am so enamored with the 10mm Auto, and Glock is the only above manufacture that supports this cartridge. I hear SA is coming out with a 10mm XD. With its relatively high bore axis, I am not convinced the XD is a good platform for a 10mm and with some of the grumblings I am hearing about SA, I am not sure I want to support them as a company. If I could get a M&P, PPQ, or that new CZ striker gun in 10mm I'd maybe consider it. Until then, Glock is it. So I guess I am reiterating the OP by pointing out that Glock still has a better selection of models and calibers than any other polymer on the market. And they are modular enough that you can be into some pretty obscure cartridges with a Glock; 7.62x25 Tok, 9x23, 9x25 Dillon, .50 GI, .357 SIG, and the most complete line-up of 10mm Autos on the market from any design.

If you shoot a 9mm, you have lots of options and can nit-pick. If you shoot something other than The Big Three, Glock is probably the only game in town...
 
whatnickname said:
While Apex makes a very nice replacement trigger for them, their trigger will not function with the older model, small sear pin, sear housing. And no, Smith & Wesson will not sell you one either. In fact they're down right anal about the matter. So if you want to convert an older pistol you have to scrounge for a replacement sear housing...I mean God forbid that someone would actually put a decent trigger in an M&P!
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I bought my M&P40 in 2011 and in 2014 decided to finally try out the Apex FSS kit. I noticed that the sear housing block had the small spring hole so I ordered the new one from Brownells for $28. Three days later I was back in business. I know the SHB's were hard to find for a while but it looks like Brownells, Midway and others have them in stock now so it's not hard to get unless you insist on buying them from S&W. This usually applies to guns made quite a while ago (although I've seen that S&W sometimes puts old stock parts into later model guns if they find a batch of old parts like slide locks, trigger bars and SHB's).

The trigger in the M&P is perfectly adequate for a SD or Duty gun. If you are pulling the trigger slow enough to notice whether it's "decent" or not (me included), then you aren't in a desperate situation. The same goes for the Glock stock triggers and XD triggers.
 
whatnickname said:
First let me say that I have several of each of the Glock, Smith & Wesson M&P and Springfield XD pistols. All are quality pistols but each of them have their strengths and weaknesses. I prize the dozen or so Glocks I own very highly. They are by far the easiest pistol to work on and modify for a particular use. The pistol only has 34 parts in it and requires nothing more than a 3/32" punch to completely disassemble. There are by far more after market parts for the Glock than any other polymer frame pistol on the planet and the Glock is 100% bullet proof reliable. I carry the Glock in a belt holster more than I do the other two makes and the Glock is available in a wider range of calibers than the Smith or Springfield either one. Make no mistake about, if I knew I was taking a handgun to a gunfight it would be a Glock. The down side, at least for me anyway, is that the Glock is nothing to hold in aesthetic contemplation. They're ugly and that's just the plain truth of the matter. The ZEV Technology Fulcrum Trigger is one of the best on the planet and I can install one in about ten minutes. Aside from aesthetics, the down side for me is that the Glock does not fit my hand very well but that has been less of an issue with the onset of the Gen 4s. Glock's customer service is world class.

The Smith & Wesson M&P is by far a much nicer looking pistol than the Glock and with the large grip insert fits my hand like a glove. The bore axis is low in relation to my hand and that is also a plus IMO. The down side...more difficult to work on, primarily because of the ambidextrous slide release. While Apex makes a very nice replacement trigger for them, their trigger will not function with the older model, small sear pin, sear housing. And no, Smith & Wesson will not sell you one either. In fact they're down right anal about the matter. So if you want to convert an older pistol you have to scrounge for a replacement sear housing...I mean God forbid that someone would actually put a decent trigger in an M&P! Plus the M&P couldn't decide what it wanted to be when it grew up so not all the parts (like the trigger and trigger bar) interchangeable. All in all a good pistol and I like the 5 I have...particularly the two CORE models I have out of the Custom Shop.

The Springfield XD is by far the best made of the three brands. The machining and fitting are simply superb. The grip configuration is very reminiscent of the old Bren 10 of years past and feels pretty good in my hand. They are larger pistols, width and height, on average than the other two and the axis of the bore in relation to the hand is a good bit higher. The down side? They put the damn sights and extractor in with at least a 10 ton press. The extractor? Well maybe but *** were they thinking when they put the damn sights in? That no one would ever want to make a windage adjustment or replace them with night sights? Seriously??? After market trigger...Powder River makes an excellent after market trigger but you better pack a lunch. Sometimes you have to fit both the sear and the safety leaver by hand and here's the key...you can always take a little more metal off but you'll have one hell of a time getting any to go back on. Oh, put the slide back on before that safety lever is properly fit and you're gonna have one HELL of a time getting the slide back off the frame...probably teach yourself some new words before you're done with that project. Not all models have been created equally either. I have a 2003 vintage XD40 that simply cannot be fitted with a Powder River slide safety leaver...just not gonna happen. All said and done the 3 I have are all very reliable and I'm gonna hold on to them. Springfield's pretty picky about what replacement parts they will sell you. That extractor...assuming you can actually get it out of the slide...Forget it! It aint gonna happen, which is a minus in my book.

So these are just my thoughts and observations...What about yours?
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As with all things people "vote" with their dollars. The old saying, "put your money where your mouth is" is very much true today as it was in the past.
People love to talk. However, most folks do not like to spend money on something they truly do not believe in. Money and beliefs go hand in hand.
Mr.. Glock sells lots and lots of guns.


Just like Henry Ford was fond of saying," You can have any color in black that you want."
"Any port will do in a storm-any Glock is perfect out of the box."
 
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Ford Model A were originally sold in green - they switched to black because the paint dried faster. My late father was the worlds biggest Model A junkie.
Glock sells a lot of guns to PDs due to pricing. PD Admin don't normally care much how the guns work, just that they work and they're in budget. I KNOW what my Dept paid for Glock 19s a few years ago, and if you could, you'd buy three at that price. I don't even like Glock and I'd buy one just to have it. :)
 
armoredman said:
Ford Model A were originally sold in green - they switched to black because the paint dried faster. My late father was the worlds biggest Model A junkie.
Glock sells a lot of guns to PDs due to pricing. PD Admin don't normally care much how the guns work, just that they work and they're in budget. I KNOW what my Dept paid for Glock 19s a few years ago, and if you could, you'd buy three at that price. I don't even like Glock and I'd buy one just to have it. :)
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Well said, Every time I hear the word "Glock", I think of the early model Volkswagen Beetles. (The people's Car). They seem to be a true "Utilitarian" product. I picture everyone in the country driving one car, a Black VW Bug and shooting one pistol, a black Glock. Glock won early Government Bids and never looked back. It was the best advertising they could ask for. Low cost, reliable, easy to train due to the fact that they do not have a conventional safety. Training with a thumb safety takes time to learn and time is money. I have alway's wondered why they sell for the price they do. It would seem that the cost would be about half of what they go for. And as someone that has dealt with Gov. bids, quality does not always go to the best product. Gaston seems to have learned the bidding process well during those early times.
Glocks have been know to be reliable firearms, but over the recent years, so many other manufacturers are also producing polymer firearms with great reliability as well and with great handling and accuracy.
And many that cost less, shoot great etc. The Sig 320 seem's to have a major player in the Gov. Bid world. It will be interesting in the coming years to see how the world of Firearm Pistols will move.

I remember well many years ago when I went into the Military. Every one was issued the same Black combat boots. Good construction, wore well etc. However, things did change.
 
MTMilitiaman said:
My problem is that I am so enamored with the 10mm Auto, and Glock is the only above manufacture that supports this cartridge.
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I'm not a glock guy but I have to admit their 10mm glock 20 offering is a good pistol. Just note the factory barrel chamber support is on the light side so beware of reloads.
 
I have shot all three and I own two examples (Glock and XD). I like Glocks, but the low bore axis bites me. Still, I like my 29 and thats what I carry. My XD has taken a major licking and kept on ticking. I don't know that I am in love with it as much as it just does what it is supposed to do and doesn't let me down.
 
My only issue with Glocks are the block grips and plastic sights. Sure you can replace the sights, but I don't want the hassle and expense. The grip is as it comes, and there are plastic pistols with better grips and steel sights out of the box.
 
Of the polymer pistols, I currently have an M&P and an (early) XD. I didn't want to love the XD, but I do.
Shoots well for me, grip safety, what's not to like? Conversely, I want to really love the M&P, but it just doesn't do as well, for me. Still a great gun - at a fantastic price right now. Glocks don't seem to fit me, and I'm too happy with my XD, BHP, etc., to spring for one, or a 320.

For whatever reason, I have little desire to modify any of my handguns (whereas I will happy tinker with rifles all day long), so an inability to modify is not a downside for me at all. I've read that you don't necessarily have to buy after market to improve the trigger on an M&P - you can polish the internals to get some improvement, but I haven't tried this.
 
I have been shooting both the Ruger LC9S and the SR9c since they came out. Actually started shooting the LC9 with the original trigger and then the LC9S. Thousands of rounds through these two pistols.
Both have been exceptionally reliable. I shoot them well. Rapid fire at 15 yds with the LC9S is a breeze to hit great groups. The Sr9C has been a marvelous shooter for me. The felt recoil feels like a 22.cal. If i am going rapid fire at 20 yards, the gun will get the job done and do it well.
I am also on the side of safety and have trained all my life with one, so the fact that it is equipped with one is a bonus for me personally. (not trying to get into the safety debate).
Is the Glock or XD etc. a better pistol??? I have shot them, they are nice guns but I really do not care if they are better. These two Ruger Pistols work perfectly for me. I do not need anything else. They feel great in my hand, I can come to target quickly, and as I mentioned, they have been ultra reliable. The customer service with Ruger is exceptional. The cost on these pistols are more than reasonable.
I believe any of these pistols, the Ruger, the Glock and on and on are great modern day firearms. Point being, get the gun you choose and spend more time at the range shooting.
 
As far as Glock and M&P, they're both not very attractive. Only reason to buy an M&P over a Glock is price. I got my M&P Shield 9 for a really good price.

The XD, especially in the XDM is a much nicer pistol that the Glock or M&P. The bitone versions of the XD pistols are actually really nice looking.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
Well said, Every time I hear the word "Glock", I think of the early model Volkswagen Beetles. (The people's Car). They seem to be a true "Utilitarian" product. I picture everyone in the country driving one car, a Black VW Bug and shooting one pistol, a black Glock. Glock won early Government Bids and never looked back. It was the best advertising they could ask for. Low cost, reliable, easy to train due to the fact that they do not have a conventional safety. Training with a thumb safety takes time to learn and time is money. I have alway's wondered why they sell for the price they do. It would seem that the cost would be about half of what they go for. And as someone that has dealt with Gov. bids, quality does not always go to the best product. Gaston seems to have learned the bidding process well during those early times.
Glocks have been know to be reliable firearms, but over the recent years, so many other manufacturers are also producing polymer firearms with great reliability as well and with great handling and accuracy.
And many that cost less, shoot great etc. The Sig 320 seem's to have a major player in the Gov. Bid world. It will be interesting in the coming years to see how the world of Firearm Pistols will move.

I remember well many years ago when I went into the Military. Every one was issued the same Black combat boots. Good construction, wore well etc. However, things did change.
Click to expand...

Certainly does not hurt that the SEALS use Glock firearms as well-just saying...
 
Vernon1 said:
Certainly does not hurt that the SEALS use Glock firearms as well-just saying...
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Every SEAL I know and have worked over the past decade use a Sig P226. The Glock 19 was recently added to a SOCOM list that operators can choose from if they want or have to.
 
We have come to the late stage capitalism problem of having so many good choices that we knitpick and complain about relatively minor things. Trigger this, bore axis that; aftermarket support here, grip safety there. Then, we create a chart, rank features, and decipher a "winner," based on our own biased viewpoint. It is not enough to be satisfied with our own decision. We must influence others to support our own bias, even if another user's needs are different from our own.

Today's poly-framed, striker fired handguns are mostly different iterations of the same basic design. Most of us will never wear one out, partially because we keep buying them. So what's my bias? - handguns are very individualistic. The key is that the firearm must fit the individual's hand well (whether that is just the molding or with inserts/backstraps/grip panels) and be reliable. The shooter must be able to naturally point the firearm and have the confidence that it will fire every time the trigger is pulled. Beyond that, it just our own preferences and chest thumping.
 
cougar1717 said:
We have come to the late stage capitalism problem of having so many good choices that we knitpick and complain about relatively minor things. Trigger this, bore axis that; aftermarket support here, grip safety there. Then, we create a chart, rank features, and decipher a "winner," based on our own biased viewpoint. It is not enough to be satisfied with our own decision. We must influence others to support our own bias, even if another user's needs are different from our own.

Today's poly-framed, striker fired handguns are mostly different iterations of the same basic design. Most of us will never wear one out, partially because we keep buying them. So what's my bias? - handguns are very individualistic. The key is that the firearm must fit the individual's hand well (whether that is just the molding or with inserts/backstraps/grip panels) and be reliable. The shooter must be able to naturally point the firearm and have the confidence that it will fire every time the trigger is pulled. Beyond that, it just our own preferences and chest thumping.
Click to expand...
Gun forums were born of personal preference arguments and chest thumping. Without that, well what else will we argue about?:D
 
MTMilitiaman said:
My problem is that I am so enamored with the 10mm Auto, and Glock is the only above manufacture that supports this cartridge. I hear SA is coming out with a 10mm XD.
Click to expand...

I don't own either Glock or XD, but the XD45 fits my hand better than the Glock 21 and so I expect the XD 10 would probably fit better than the G20. However, Springfield seems to have run into some delay given that they put out some publicity videos awhile back, but still don't seem to have a market date. Think I'll be a Glock 20 owner soon.
 
Glock fans, Ruger fans, XD fans,MP fans and on and on. Lol, all of these post really mean nothing but personal bias. And for sure, most sold does not relate to best gun. Advertising, Marking Pre-conceived notions, Gov. bids etc. are what really moves opinions. Many modern day Polymer frames Pistols can all be fine firearms. There are also many not mentioned here that are great guns. The saying "Opinions are like *********, everybody has one sure rings a bell.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
Glock fans, Ruger fans, XD fans,MP fans and on and on. Lol, all of these post really mean nothing but personal bias.
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My feelings are hurt. I'm a Kahr fan and not even worthy of inclusion.:) I guess I shouldn't be in this thread since I don't own any Glock, Springfield, or S&W polymers. A Glock is in my future though. My personal bias for 10mm is about to overcome my bias against Glock aesthetics.
 
You are very worthy my friend. Many Kahr fans out there. Funny though the Kahr is pretty much based on the Glock. I have a Kahr 380 and love the gun. Although my personal favorite is the Pico. I Have owned 4 LCP's. No longer am a fan of that gun. I know that there are many really dedicated fans of the CM9 and others. I have shot thousands of rounds through my LC9S, but after shooting the Kahr CM9, will be purchasing one in the near future. Also considering the Nano. The LC9S is a lovely reliable gun, but just looking to add to my single stack Carry. This is what is so great about America. So many wonderful choices.
Maybe someday I will own a Glock. Who knows. I never say never.
 
For me it's all about sticking with what I know, what I've been practicing with, and what I have a good level of confidence in. Obviously, the consumer market for striker fired polymer framed service pistols has changed drastically in the last several years. If the Walther PPQ-M2 or the CZ P10C were available back in 2009 when I got my first "G" a Gen3 17, it's quite possible that I wouldn't have gone with the first of 4 G's that I've owned, 3 of which I still have. But I like what I know & what I have put many thousands of rounds downrange with, so I'll stick with what I have.
 
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