Odd question Re upgrading a CZ

Detritus · Sep 26, 2017

Not sure if this should be here on in the gunsmithing section. if I should move it let me know.

During a recent stop at a shop I pass on a fairly regular basis, I had what is either an inspiration, or a brain damaging/eventually soul searing smack to the head from the infamous "good idea fairy".

I've been thinking that my next pistol purchase would likely be an sp-01 that I would then put a Cajun upgrade kit in. but then saw a really nice CZ75 "cold war commemorative" model in the case and a little voice in my head "I wonder if you can do that upgrade and retain the spur style hammer?" the idea being slicked up internals but the gun looking externally as much like an early CZ75 as possible, kind of a Stealth production gun.

see having not yet owned a CZ much less having an adequate grasp of the parts geometry involved, I have no idea if is anything keeping one from simply cleaning up/polishing/etc a spur hammer.

well that was the thought, and the question. anyone have any idea?

or am I crazy?

Walt Sherrill · Sep 26, 2017

I love the look of the CZ "Cold War Commemorative" model -- it looks like a pre-B while remaining a B model. I just can't stand the damned Hammer & Sickle on the gun! (They also offered a retro model that looked just like a pre-B.)

Note: The Communist Bloc never used the CZ-75 (or any other 9x19 caliber weapon) in their standard military inventory. The CZ-75 was designed for sale to the rest of the world, and the "Cold War" Western embargo kept it from getting into most of the West until the Soviet Union fell. The Cold War Commemorative model was a marketing gimmick. I'm a big CZ fan, and have owned many of them -- still own two, plus several CZ-pattern guns -- but that sales ploy grossed me out. I don't know what they were commemorating, except the West's embargo of Communist Bloc products.

Internally, except for the SA only models, the internals are virtually identical on all metal-framed CZs. The SA models have a different trigger (the lever itself), and no disconnector -- but otherwise are the same. (Disconnector models are the same as well, except for a hammer-hook removed to make room for the decocking mechanism, which takes the place of the safety.)

The Cajun Gun Works upgrades that give you the best results typically include the competition hammer, which greatly improves the trigger. That hammer isn't "pretty" like the spur hammer but it greatly improves function with little work. Many folks just install the hammer and don't do much else -- it improves the SA trigger (by doing away with the much-hated rear-ward movement of the hammer [seen in most CZs] when firing from SA mode.)

Any CZ sent to Cajun Gun Works will come back an improved gun. If you can get a low-enough price on the Commemorative, go for it. Otherwise, consider buying a CZ directly from Cajun Gun Works, and save on some shipping, or find a used one somewhere and send it on...

John G C 1 · Sep 26, 2017

Detritus--I can not really answer your question, but I can tell you the guys at Cajun Gunworks are very good and very helpful. I like CZ but they do sit in the hand in a unique way so you might want to really heft one and especially feel the front-end weight difference between the 75B and the Sp01 Good luck.

Kilrb · Sep 26, 2017

I just bought a CZ SP 01 last I called CGW and he did not have of one of this
one last week. I will be sending mine to him in a few weeks will probably go with Pro package

Detritus · Mar 3, 2018

Well I've e-mailed Cajun Gun Works, we'll see what they have to say.

Have decided that my next gun purchase is going to be a CZ, either the Cold war commemorative a local shop has or if that sells before i can get back to them, an SP-01. and if the commemorative winds up coming home with me it will be a much more involved/complicated project as I know that I won't be able to simply drop in a kit and go.

Walt Sherrill · Mar 3, 2018

Detritus said:
.... and if the commemorative winds up coming home with me it will be a much more involved/complicated project as I know that I won't be able to simply drop in a kit and go.

Why is that? It's just a standard 75B with a different rollmark on the slide?

There's a "retro" model that I'd like to have -- that LOOKs like a pre-B, but is a B-model internally -- which lets you avoid any future parts issues

Detritus · Mar 3, 2018

Walt Sherrill said:
Why is that? It's just a standard 75B with a different rollmark on the slide?

I meant with regard to what my goals, how I would go about things, etc with the "Commemorative" model Vs if I brought home an SP-01. If I had bought the SP01 I would simply drop the CGW production legal kit into the gun and go, and have no qualms about changing the hammer. But with the "Cold War" or Retro 75s part of their charm is the spur hammer, and as far as I can find there is not at this time a drop-in "tune-up" kit that uses a spur hammer, and naturally since I am getting that particular model pretty much for that feature, I'm not gonna ditch it for a performance boost I probably can't take advantage of yet anyway.

And yes, I just put my local shop's cold war gun on layaway, just barely (as in the amount left on layaway is about what I paid for dinner for two last night). now to wait for the Sherriff's office to finish processing my purchase permit (one of the few things I don't like about being back in NC).

Walt Sherrill · Mar 3, 2018

Detritus said:
I meant with regard to what my goals, how I would go about things, etc with the "Commemorative" model Vs if I brought home an SP-01. If I had bought the SP01 I would simply drop the CGW production legal kit into the gun and go, and have no qualms about changing the hammer. But with the "Cold War" or Retro 75s part of their charm is the spur hammer, and as far as I can find there is not at this time a drop-in "tune-up kit uses a spur hamer, and naturally since I am getting that particular model pretty much for that feature, I'm not gonna ditch it for a performance boost I probably can't take advantage of yet anyway.

First, the Cold War model is unlikely to EVER be a collectible CZ, so there's no compelling reason to NOT swap out that hammer. (You can keep the old one for reinstallation if that is a concern.) The Cold War model was simply a marketing gimmick -- as the CZ-75 was never used by any Warsaw Pact or Communist military. Any gun used by the Warsaw Pact would more appropriately be called a symbol of the Cold War. The entire Warsaw Pact didn't use 9x19... The 75 was designed for export but the West's Embargo of Communist Bloc products greatly constrained the sale of products in the West. You could get CZs in Canada -- and West Germany.

Second, If you're not going to ditch the spur hammer for a performance boost that you probably can't take advantage of yet, why worry about performance upgrades with kits or parts? There are HOW TO guides on the CZ Forum that will show you how to do some of the improvements pretty easily, you don't really have to worry about parts or kits or changing out the hammer. You'll find a lot of ideas and steps, here: https://www.czfirearms.us/

Detritus said:
...now to wait for the Sherriff's office to finish processing my purchase permit (one of the few things I don't like about being back in NC).

Get a concealed carry permit and you won't have to go through that drill but once every 5 years. The cost of the class (the first time) and cost of getting the permits will be easily recovered over the years. (I think I've purchased just one gun directly from an FFL in the past 10 years.)

roval · Mar 3, 2018

if you haven't owned a cz yet i wouldn't be hasty getting it upgraded right away. you may like the stock trigger especially after dry firing it a while. you can always upgrade it later. i have 3 czs( 85, sp01, the 75d compact) and traded a cz75 with a smooth trigger for another cz the sp01 that i have that has a not as smooth bit still good trigger. none of them have had an upgraded trigger.

Rock185 · Mar 4, 2018

I kind of doubt that the Cold War Commemorative is actually collectible, but I do think the CZ75s in general are good guns. I have owned two pre B CZ75s and a B Retro model. I didn't have any trigger work done, but thought mine had quite acceptable DA and SA triggers. Good guns all, but, I wish I'd kept at least one of the Pre Bs. The Retro was reliable and service pistol accurate, but had a couple of characteristics I didn't care for. The trigger had a "slap" to it I did not enjoy. I read that CZ had reshaped the trigger or something, and others had the same complaint. I also did not care for that large hole at the back right side of the slide, apparently somehow necessary in the B models with firing pin safety.

Detritus · Mar 4, 2018

in case there is some confusion, I'm buying the Cold War model and desiring to keep it externally the same (ie keep the spur hammer, non-FO sights, etc) for one reason and one reason only, the same reason that years ago I lusted after but in the end never bought an Olympic/Safari Arms "Westerner" (1911 with Case Color finish). I'm weird and happen to like the looks of the thing...

That's it, well that and having been interested in CZ75 since a co worker let me shoot his back in '98. I have no concern for collectability, I buy guns to shoot them, the only gun I have that I KNOW has "collector value" is still a shooter to me. If any of my local shops had had one of the "retro" models at all, much less at a reasonable price I might have gone for one over the Cold War gun. But they didn't, and the borderline absurdity of a "special edition" of a Czech made gun with the Red Star, red-highlighted Hammer & Sickle, and Cyrillic roll marks makes me grin for some reason.

I speak of finding out what upgrades and tuning are available without losing the existing aesthetic of the gun, but I'm in no rush to make those upgrades. the guns' not going to come home with me and immediately get sent to CGW or anything. i'll likely shoot the snot out of it, getting acquainted with it and working up new loads to find out what it likes.

Walt Sherrill · Mar 4, 2018

Rock185 said:
I also did not care for that large hole at the back right side of the slide, apparently somehow necessary in the B models with firing pin safety.

That opening, if we're talking about the same thing, is on BOTH sides of the slide in the serrated area -- and it's where the Firing Pin Retention Roll Pin is placed to keep the firing pin in the slide when the gun functions. Pre-B models and the 85 Combat (no longer being produced/imported to the US) uses a firing pin stop, a small piece at the rear of the slide, which is fit into a cut on the slide. The roll pin was arguable a "simplification" that required less machining on the slide. If you ever remove the firing pin, you'll have to drive that pin out.

(Early B-models could break the firing pin retention roll pin if they were dry-fired too much; CZ has since "doubled" that rull pin (put one inside the first one) and the problem went away.)

I've not heard an explanation of WHY trigger slap is experienced with some CZs, or how it can be stopped. It seemed to be a bigger issue with some compact CZs in years past. I still read about it, but don't know if the guns were new or old. I've probably had at least 25 or 30 CZs over the years, both B and pre-B, and have never experienced trigger slap...[/QUOTE]

Tallball · Mar 4, 2018

You'll like shooting it. I bought one and liked it so much that now I have five. My shooting buddy liked my first one so much that he had one of his own within a month.

Odd question Re upgrading a CZ

Detritus

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Walt Sherrill

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John G C 1

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Kilrb

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Detritus

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Walt Sherrill

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Detritus

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Walt Sherrill

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roval

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Rock185

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Walt Sherrill

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