SKS/bayonet question.

There was no federal law which required an individual owner to remove the bayonet. What did happen was a couple items. One was President executive actions barring importation of firearms and munitions from China due to a number of bad actions they had done. The second was the now gone federal assault weapons ban and many still existing state assault weapons laws. In most cases if the sks wasn't named outright, then a 2 feature test was used. Bayonets and studs were a common no-go item amongst the various rules so it was not uncommon to see them removed. Then the sks could be viewed as a fixed magazine semi auto rifle without the evil AW label.

As an aside, adding back parts to an existing Chinese gun can run in 922R compliance issues. The rules can be confusing but in a nutshell the law limits the number of imported and domestic parts which must be present in the firearm.

Tapco has been probably the major player in the aftermarket for SKS. They have a good explanation of 922R on their website.

http://www.tapco.com/section922r/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco

Commie California and the Peoples Republic of NewYork City is full of such crappy bans, prehaps you heard about one of their laws.......

I don't remember the details but unlike russian, yugo, and albanian sks rifles that had legal bayonets, the chinese versions were not imported as curio and relic rifles. I think it was under section 22R because of this. But I also remember that no one had gotten prosecuted for bayonets on chinese rifles at the time.

Right, from what I've read the Norinco SKSs were not imported as C&R Relics so could only come into the country in "Sporting" configuration. That's section 925(d)3: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/925

And section 922(r) says you can't build a foreign parts gun into "non-sporting" configuration once it's here. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922


While it's still blitheringly unclear and seems to be an area of firearms law with very little prosecutorial and judicial precedent to guide us, the safe money bet is it isn't legal to put a bayonet on one.

There are some theories as to why it should be which are based on how much effort is required to reinstall that part (e.g.: bolting parts back on -vs. - welding on a missing bayonet lug) but I'd be pretty skeptical of those theories considering how broadly the ATF interprets what constitutes making or re-making a firearm.

There was a demarcation line, but I don't recall what it was.

My SKS was among the first bunch that came in when the Chinese started dumping government surplus new-in-cosmoline rifles & it can legally keep the bayonet on it.
Later guns couldn't.
Denis

Yes. I believe some of the first Chinese SKSs were made under an agreement with the Soviets and marked with a specific factory stamping and could be identified as the C&R relics imported without falling into the 925(d)3 restrictions. All (or 'most all) of the rest were not. If I understand correctly, those which were Norincos don't fall into the C&R batch.

"...due to a number of bad actions they had done..." Said bad actions supposedly being human rights related and nothing whatever to do with the rifle's action. Lotta BS it was too. Clinton didn't want relatively inexpensive M1A clones imported.
I believe some States decided having an attached bayonet made the SKS an evil 'assault' rifle.
The 922R doesn't appear to apply when the whole rifle is imported.

DPris said:

There was a demarcation line, but I don't recall what it was.

My SKS was among the first bunch that came in when the Chinese started dumping government surplus new-in-cosmoline rifles & it can legally keep the bayonet on it.
Later guns couldn't.
Denis

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Same here.

My Norinco SKS I bought "new" from a local sporting goods store came issued with the spike bayonet installed and the pivot bolt was staked in place so it wouldn't come loose under recoil. That was 1992.

The first rounds of Chinese gun bans happened in 1989 under Bush, with increasingly more stringent rules added over the next decade or so. It was politics, and like always there can be plenty of reasons why other than the official explanations. (An awful lot of chinese clones of US guns were flooding in with the sks and American manufacturers were definitely hurting.) But what's done, is done.

The question now is what can the OP do with his rifle? The simple answer is shoot it and enjoy. There are rules which may technically exclude him from altering the gun from its original configuration so check the regs and be careful to follow them.

Sunray said:

"...due to a number of bad actions they had done..." Said bad actions supposedly being human rights related and nothing whatever to do with the rifle's action. Lotta BS it was too.

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I seem to remember there was more than that. I think Norinco imported a bunch of some type of full auto guns and got caught.

Here's a link to one story.....

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ns-us-china-relationship-chinese-manufactured

The 922R doesn't appear to apply when the whole rifle is imported

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What does that mean?

Have you read the text of 922(r)?

If so then you'd be familiar with 925(d)3, and you would know that 925 says you can't import military style non-sporting guns and 922 says you can't assemble those guns from parts that have been imported here.

A whole rifle imported here must pass muster under 925(d)3. Once here 922 says you can't turn it into something that would have been illegal to import.

Sam1911: A very astute Mod at AKfiles explains, along with some others, that 922r was written for importers of AKs etc, because they assemble guns from parts kits, or change parts.

There have been no known federal prosecutions for changing the weird butt stock in a thumbhole MAK 90, or using a larger mag etc in those or original Saiga rifles etc. Or changing 3-4 parts.
The ATF has added On a charge for certain changes----but when added onto an Actual felony.

If somebody has been prosecuted Only for 922r, then any documented info will be strange news.
The ATF's language is vague. The person who assembles is considered to be the importer, with nothing addressing the "end users" etc-customers.

They certainly have no interest in, nor overworked staff to research whether Billy Bob's Chinese SKS originally had a little spike bayonet.

Sam1911: A very astute Mod at AKfiles explains, along with some others, that 922r was written for importers of AKs etc, because they assemble guns from parts kits, or change parts.

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Sure, of course. That's quite clear. Though I don't know it's accurate to say it was written "for" them. It's written FOR anyone who would think they could skirt 95(d)3 by bringing in parts or semi-assembled rifles and building up non-importable versions here.

There have been no known federal prosecutions for changing the weird butt stock in a thumbhole MAK 90, or using a larger mag etc in those or original Saiga rifles etc. Or changing 3-4 parts.

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But we don't know how many UNKNOWN federal prosecutions there have been. The absence of information is not proof of anything.

The ATF has added On a charge for certain changes----but when added onto an Actual felony.

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Any violation of federal law is an "ACTUAL" felony so there's not a lot of clarity in suggesting some violations aren't "actual."

But I've heard this idea that a 922(r) violation is added on only when there are other felonies involved. No idea if it's TRUE. But I've heard it.

The ATF's language is vague. The person who assembles is considered to be the importer, with nothing addressing the "end users" etc-customers.

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I think you mean "manufacturer" but whatever the ATF's language is, the federal code seems to use this, "(a) No person shall assemble ..." That doesn't really seem unclear as to what kind of person they're talking about.

They certainly have no interest in, nor overworked staff to research whether Billy Bob's Chinese SKS originally had a little spike bayonet.

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Can you provide your contact info and financial qualifications to support the defense of Billy Bob or whomever might be prosecuted then? Awful nice of you!

There's the law, and then there's the reality. However, just because no one had been prosecuted doesn't mean it can't happen. Agreed the odds of prosecution are slim and next to none, but I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to break the law. What you do on your own is your business, and shouldn't be discussed on the interweb.

Catshooter said:

And I have no intention of nor need to break the law. I try to follow the law always. It can be tough to do so,; the law is sometimes unclear. But in this case I like the SKS as built. It works for me.

Thanks for the answers.


Cat

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SKS boards actually has a pretty detailed account of 922 issues involving SKS's from what I remember. Here is SKS Files (offshoot of the original Survivor SKS board ) http://sks-files.com/index.php?board=52.0
or the older board Survivor SKS Board http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?board=12.0

It's for sure muddy waters.
And 922 probably is a big part of it.

My recollection (which could be faulty) is that the Chinese Type 56 has a blade bayonet; the Soviet/WP variants used the spike bayonet.
I also recall that some of the importers thought that taking the blade bayonet off would make it easier to sell the rifles. I suspect that at least some of the importers thought they could sell the bayonets to collectors for cash--but that did not pan out so well.

Most of the Chinese imported here with bayonets attached had the spikes.
Denis

DPris said:

Most of the Chinese imported here with bayonets attached had the spikes.
Denis

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And I remember seeing buckets of them at the gun shows being sold as "tent pegs" back in the 90's.

Shanghai McCoy said:

. . . sold as "tent pegs" back in the 90's.

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Clever.