Used Cap and Ball Prices

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montess85

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Has anyone noticed that people at gun shows , and on gunbroker want the same or more money for used CVA, Pietta, and Uberti percussion revolvers? What's the Deal? I saw a used Army San Marco Dragoon at a gun show a little while back that was marked $395. Saw several used Pietta 12" Brass framed buffalo model 1858s marked for $300 or more. The gun sells for less than that when its not on sale. lol I could go on. What are people smoking?
 
Dunno. You also have to consider the age. Back in the '60s-'70s, some of those imported revolvers were spotty. A friend in the '70s had a Rem 1858 that had a cracked frame. His father was so cheap he had it welded. There was also the issue of soft steel and parts wearing quickly.
 
Yes! Nations gun show last weekend had several examples of that idiocy. I saw a Pietta 1851 for $360 and an old CVA flintlock pistol (Jukar) for $275, but he was willing to come down to $250 (I just picked it up and looked at it). Granted, CVA isn't making any more of those, but I could get a used Pedersoli for not much more than that. Some sellers are only interested in finding a sucker.
 
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I have been a gun show promoter for 30 years. This complaint comes up occasionally. The sad truth is that there are not many people who are versed in traditional muzzleloading.

Most of the dealers know little about the subject. They base their prices on whatever data they can find. Sometimes it's the internet or catalogs. While I often see overpriced guns I also find real steals.

In the end they are trying to make a profit. If the price is too high they may have paid too much for it in the first place. Dicker, you may get a deal.

IronHand
 
All I can say is that you should educate yourself as a consumer, and let those overpricing dealers stew in their own juices. The market always eventually corrects itself.

Sometimes "dealers" go to shows for purposes other than actually selling. Maybe they want to buy stuff cheaply, or maybe just socialize with their friends. The items "for sale" on the table may be there simply to provide a plausible backdrop.
 
All I can say is that you should educate yourself as a consumer, and let those overpricing dealers stew in their own juices. The market always eventually corrects itself.

Sometimes "dealers" go to shows for purposes other than actually selling. Maybe they want to buy stuff cheaply, or maybe just socialize with their friends. The items "for sale" on the table may be there simply to provide a plausible backdrop.

^^^^^+1
 
Most folks don't know, or want to try, BP guns anymore. The western and mountain man movies and Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett TV shows were us older folks generation. Now its all tactical or Call of Duty type firearms. I think that's why we see used BP guns priced higher than new in the local gun store or pawn shop. They just aren't familiar with them or think they are rare, when they aren't.

My favorite LGS has a couple brass frame ".44 Reb Navys" that are displayed on consignment, and they want probably $100.00 more used, than you can buy from Cabellas during a sale. They know they are over priced and have been there a long time, but it's up to the seller, and it fills space.
 
Caveat Emptor!
Folks when it comes to "traditional" muzzle loading I see all sorts of "odd" prices. Some folks are ignorant; some folks are nuts. :confused:

For example, I've seen very ornately carved long rifles offered on a reputable website, for a couple thousand dollars, YET..., when one looks at the close-up photos of the lock mortise where the lock joins the wood of the stock, one can sometimes see very obvious, rookie mistakes (imho). Either the wood to metal fit is poor, or the builder used a precarved stock and failed to properly shape the mortise flat to the rear of the lock, OR BOTH. The builder did a wonderful job on the carving, but rushed the beginner stuff to get to that task..., well if you haven't mastered the basics, in my book, you should not be charging top prices. Folks PAID for those flawed rifles, in part I believe because of the website where they were offered, and because the buyers didn't know better...thus causing the trend to continue.

When it comes to used guns, folks think they know, OR they are trying to BS the buyers. They don't do any research to see what's "the going rate".
I've seen used Pedersoli muskets priced MORE than a new Pedersoli musket kit. So they think the buyer will buy the old musket (without warranty) instead of building the new musket, AND they don't check to see that when the factory muskets go on sale, they cost only about $200 or so more than their overpriced used item. :( So eventually some fool comes along and buys the item...or they get upset and take it off the market.
Further, they often say they are the original owner and you can see the serial number..., you can check when the musket was made and you can check the price back then..., duh..., so you offer the guy 2X what he paid for the musket, and they want more like $300 below the factory price of the new gun (which is like 3x price they paid). :scrutiny: It's not a collector's piece, they are still made, but they think they have some sort of precious jewel or somehow the Italian overpricing = they should get more for their used piece. (OK once in a great while the guy doesn't really want to sell his gun, for various reasons, offers it at a really high price, and IF he gets that, well in that case he'll sell..., but those guys are rare imho)

Then you have unscrupulous "dealers". Mostly I see these folks selling "antiques", not gun dealers. They rip people off with their other stuff, such as china and furniture, so they think they are smart enough to do it to gun buyers. I've seen folks try to sell repros as "originals", and a red flag is when they say "I'm selling this for a customer [or estate etc.] so I can't answer many questions about it". Like the time I saw a $1000.00 price tag on an antiqued pair of "Confederate Navy .44 revolvers" with the Italian proof marks clearly visible. Or when I saw a modern restocked 3rd Model East India Company Bess being sold for $3000 because it's "original", when you can buy such muskets in a sort of kit (which this clown obviously had done) online.

And Montess85 is right, when you point out the flaw to the seller, they get pissed off. Had a guy selling a "new" Bess, which was actually a used barrel and other parts that were new in a new stock, but the dumb-ass forgot to leave room for the bayonet when he put the parts together..., the stock ran out to the muzzle of the barrel, and when I pointed it out he started shouting at me (got his hand caught in the cookie jar ;)). :rofl:

So bottom line, BUYER BEWARE.

LD
 
But, don't stop looking.

Conversion.JPG I did come across a Pietta 1858 Remington on a table at a small gun show. It had an old Navy Arms box but nothing else. The cylinder had a drag mark and the nipples were a little flattened from dry firing, but the wood was beautiful, exceptional bluing and a great trigger. I was in the market for another one to shoot blank charges for some shows and they guy said he wanted $125.00 for it. This was 5 years ago and Cabela's was around $200.00 new by then. I picked it up and took it home.

When I got home, I began to examine it and saw the cylinder chambers were pristine, as well as the barrel. The barrel had progressive rifling and the front sight was dovetailed. Some jewelry cleaner on the tarnished trigger guard revealed silver, not brass. I was shocked that I had picked up a "Shooter's Model". I checked Dixie Gun works catalog and saw the price of a new one and about choked.

I contacted Navy Arms and they sent me an email stating it was made for them in 1986 to represent an original as possible. And it was in fact a Pietta mfg Shooter's model with deep bluing and silver plated trigger guard.

I figured someone played with it fanning it, hence the drag line on the cylinder and the slightly flattened nipples. But it was never shot. Because I payed so low for it, I did send it to Raven's Roost and have a conversion cylinder and ejector put on it. I have both cylinders and it is one of my favorite handguns.
 
Some sellers are only interested in finding a sucker.

I couldn't have said it better myself noelf2...

I also suspect that some sellers go to gun shows to sort of "hang out" and bring their own personal guns along that they don't really want or need to sell but are willing to if they get an outrageously high price for them, with the idea in mind that if they sell for a super high price that's great if they don't that's OK too.
 
Last year I bought my 2nd Pietta 1860 Army from Gunbroker for $229.50 delivered. It was missing the percussion cylinder but instead came with a 45Colt cylinder seen below...

26813798703_c267302dd7_b.jpg
 
What gets me is the shipping some of these guys want to charge. $30.00 to ship a 3 pound pistol, no matter where it's going? You can live in the same state and they will charge you the same as if you live on the other side of the country. Tell me the seller isn't pocketing the difference.

On a $200 gun that's a 15% shipping charge. Seems to me its just a way to get around the auction system.

IronHand
 
So it all boils down to "Caveat Emptor" let the buyer beware. I've bought four guns from GB, three as expected, one a ROA has such a hair trigger as to be unsafe to shoot. The seller omitted that little detail.
In its early days E-Bay was a prime example of folks getting caught up in the bidding process, they wound up paying as much for a used item as they would have for a new.

Saddlebag Preachers post is one I've hoped for but hasn't paid out yet. That is a fine looking piece.
 
What gets me is the shipping some of these guys want to charge. $30.00 to ship a 3 pound pistol, no matter where it's going? You can live in the same state and they will charge you the same as if you live on the other side of the country. Tell me the seller isn't pocketing the difference.

On a $200 gun that's a 15% shipping charge. Seems to me its just a way to get around the auction system.

IronHand

I have no problem with a $30 shipping and handling charge when it is stated up front. There are lots of costs involved in packaging, shipping, and handling. It generally has taken me an hour or more to properly prepare, package, label and calculate postage for a parcel. What gets me is when an item is listed as "buyer pays actual shipping costs" and the quote comes back at $50 or more but the postage is well under $20. If you expect me to pay you for your time to wrap my package it's only fair to state that up front.
 
I just returned from a six mile round-trip drive to the Post office to ship a custom-made knife to FL. I shipped it Priority Mail, 3-day delivery. The 1 pound, 12 ounce package shipping charge was $8.65. The insurance value, $600.00, was charged $9.15. So, the total was $17.80. My time to wrap, secure and label the package was about 30 minutes. My stated charge for delivery is $25.00. Some would say, I "profited" $7.20. Others would say, I broke even.
 
I just returned from a six mile round-trip drive to the Post office to ship a custom-made knife to FL. I shipped it Priority Mail, 3-day delivery. The 1 pound, 12 ounce package shipping charge was $8.65. The insurance value, $600.00, was charged $9.15. So, the total was $17.80. My time to wrap, secure and label the package was about 30 minutes. My stated charge for delivery is $25.00. Some would say, I "profited" $7.20. Others would say, I broke even.

I'd say you were correct and maybe even lost a bit. Until Amazon, I'd about given up on trying to buy items for less than 50 bucks, which excludes about 90% of gun cleaning supplies, wood working supplies or small bits and parts for running a house hold or hobby.
 
D. Buck Stopshere - you forgot the cost of the gas you used!!! Here in Cincinnati we can get the USPS to pick up our shipments at home.
 
Ephraim, my 2006 Toyota Highlander with 210,000 miles (break-in period just expired 10,000 miles ago) gets 22 miles to a gallon in the city @ $2.20 per gallon. That's about ten cents per mile. Ten cents X 6 miles = $ .60. I didn't add it to my post because it wasn't making enough cents (sense?). Didn't factor in the wear & tear on the Highlander. Its worn & torn enough as it is. Thanks.:rofl:
 
Has anyone noticed that people at gun shows , and on gunbroker want the same or more money for used CVA, Pietta, and Uberti percussion revolvers?

Yup, and that's why I don't buy used BP revolvers especially when you can purchase them new with a warranty and free shipping.
 
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