Forgotten revolver tips and tricks.

Yup. He drilled the trigger and carefully fitted a short section of roll pin and pressed it into the trigger, then filed it to precisely the right length. A great idea. I think straight through pull is a skill that should really be learned, but staging is very useful also for fine work (like bowling pins at 100 yards). Back in the day.
 
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Yes, the over travel stop is behind the side plate on target grade/target sighted K and I believe L frame guns. I don't think guns like the model 10 had them, but I may be mistaken. It was discontinued in service grade guns, as it loosened and changed, and didn't allow the gun to fire in several instances that Ive heard of.
The first version of the Model 15 had them (my "no dash" has one). I'm not sure when they were discontinued.
 
Staging seems to have fallen from favor, I believe the commonly accepted method is a straight through pull.

I'm one of those "straight pull" advocates, for a number of reasons: First, staging the trigger amounts to timing the shot, which target shooters will tell you is a futile effort. Worse, when you time the shot, you're very likely to really yank that trigger when you see you need to shoot...now.

And even if you don't excitedly yank the staged trigger, you're still likely to jerk it when you make that final pull, since movements are jerkiest at their beginning and end. Your pull at the break is more likely to be smooth if that break happens in the middle of the movement.

Finally, we tend to stage the trigger because we haven't really mentally committed to good shot execution when we started the pull. Your shot is more likely to be true if you mentally commit to executing an excellent shot when you started the pull.
 
Wow, what a great thread! I re-learned a lot of things that I had forgotten. Thank you all.

I do have one thing to add. KNOW the gun you carry or the one(s) you use for defense. Sounds silly, but I used to rotate my guns around. I'd keep a 1911 or a Glock or a revolver in the night stand. Carry a revolver or an autoloader. I shot single action revolvers and sometimes used those as "camp guns" but I would also use my 1911 or Glock as a camp gun. I never thought much of it. The point kind of hit home with me one day at a Cowboy match many years ago. I started the stage and I pulled my revolver and proceeded to pull my trigger "double action". I squeezed, nothing happened. For a split second I hesitated and the RO yells "Hammer"! A little embarrassed, I proceeded to shoot the stage.

That experience got me thinking and I changed my novelty of switching guns around for different uses because I thought to myself that I would never want to have to think "Okay, which gun am I using here" in a bad situation. AND, since I shoot more single action than double action I have to bear that in mind when practicing with my double action revolvers. Also, since I love revolvers and I trust them I deleted one item, or set of items, of concern in my gun collection. I sold my autoloaders. Not necessarily because of my weird logic but because I decided that I really have never liked them and I used the money to by a couple of revolvers that I really wanted.

So, for defense I carry double action revolvers and for fun, CAS or hunting, I have my single action revolvers and I practice with all of them in the manner that I use them for. Another thing is something I call "grip memory". I know by the feel how the gun operates, single or double action. I use a certain type of grips on my Cowboy guns and my double actions grips are configured differently from my single actions. I have and do practice enough with each type of gun that I instinctively know which type of gun is in my hand and how it should be operated.
This may sound weird to some, but it works for me.
 
A great S&W smith, Tom Kilhoffer (TK Custom) taught me the trick of fitting a very short piece of surgical rubber or neoprene tubing just a hair longer than the OT pin. You could pull the cylinder right up to that point of contact on the rubber, hear the bolt drop in and just an ounce or two more and the hammer would fall. And it was pretty consistent from shot to shot. You could really concentrate on the sight picture and drop the hammer without moving the sights. It really helped when mowing down a plate rack or a pin table. Once you got the hang of it - it almost felt like cheating.
What's the OT pin?
 
Jut wanted to say thanks for all this, I have been a revolver advocate for many years, and while I have a few semi autos I have 3 times as many revolvers, and have seriously considered trading the autos in for wanted revolvers.

In any case, a wealth of info, and I for one appreciate the sharing.

And congrats on the new job Mr Jones..

d
 
Sorry Trig, The OT pin is an over travel stop pin he installs into the rear of the trigger. It stops any further trigger movement once the sear has released the hammer. The rubber tubing contacts the rear of the trigger guard just before that pin does. S&W used to install a short pin into the rebound slide to do the same thing but you didn't get the soft bump stop you get with the rubber tubing.
 
Learn point and shoot. I was in two gunfights and never had time to use the sights. In one, I was able to get the gun up where I could see it between me and the BG, in the other I shot from the hip like Bill Jordan taught me..

They missed.
 
A man so armed with a revolver, even today in 2017, is extremely well armed if he knows what he is doing.

I've a S&W Model 64 police trade in and practice regularly with speedloaders and shooting. They can be reloaded VERY fast and with FBI loads, just a highly effective gun, no bucket of bullets below the gun needed.

I'd rather have six for sure than 17 maybe, and if you can't do it in six, it's time to break out the shotgun or cabine that you should have never left behind in the first place.
 
We had a very sobering moment about 20 years ago. One of our couriers (wearing a vest) got into a gunfight with a pair of mopes trying to take his money bag. He was armed with a 6 shot wheel gun. He was doing fine until a round skipped off his vest into his firing shoulder. While he was trying to reload after six one of the mopes managed to sneak up on him and end his life. Not long after the Commonwealth of Mass changed their laws to allow private couriers to carry semi autos. Anyone who has ever tried to reload under stress will tell you it's no fun at all
 
Sobering indeed.

A preemptive request, though: Let's not now veer this thread into a revolver vs semi-auto debate. Revolvers have their strengths and compromises. And revolver reloads, especially when stressed and/or wounded, are difficult, so if you're relying on a revolver for defense, it's certainly wise to 1) master your reloads (which is only done through beaucoup practice), and 2) understand the compromises one accepts when choosing a revolver.
 
I went from a .41 mag to a 10mm Auto to gain more fire power while a WHP. When I left LE, I went to a 6 inch .357 hanging from the gun rack in my ranch pickup for 20 years. Kind of a one handed carbine, but when I went to town the10mm wound up on my belt.

16 years ago I retired and moved back to town, I went to a .45ACP snubbie revolver.. Less horsepower and muzzle blast, but in view of recent developments, I parked the old revolver and strapped on a Colt 45 Defender. Easier to conceal, more rounds, and quicker reloads.
 
When I started in LE in 1978 I was issued a M19 but we could carry any S&W, Colt or Ruger in .357, 41 or 44 Mag. After being on the dept awhile I switched to a M28, For reloads we had 12 rounds in loops, we were not allowed to carry speed loaders on our belts. I did carry a backup M60 with a bobbed hammer (bobbed it myself) We shot the old FBI PPC course for any gun we carried, so quarterly I had to qualify with my M19, M28 and M60 and the best thing was the department supplied all the qualification ammo. In 1993, I was dragged kickin' n screamin' into the auto world when we switched to the 5906. But I still carried a J frame for backup and I carry a 642 everywhere I go today!
 
Unfortunately, those tactics you refer to were out of the investigation into the Newhall incident. Several good men died that day. Good advise nonetheless. Also, don't bother picking up empties.
Just to set the record straight, NONE of the CHP officers at Newhall dumped their cases into their shirt pockets as has been purported for years, nor did they pick up their brass. Some grossly misinformed person crafted that story shortly after the incident and it took on a life of its own and became "fact".
 
1. The main problem with the relatively slow reload of a revolver is the shooter TOTALLY MISSED with the first six (or so) shots. This was the primary difficulty with the Newhall shooting, the Miami (FBI) shootout and several others. Shooting a bunch of really fast misses is NOT a successful tactical plan.

2. Making a solid hit on the first shot tends to ease the panic of a reload. It also tends to discourage all antagonists.

3. Double action shooting (best in one of the classic Smith & Wesson revolvers) can be very accurate if the shooter is trained; and self-training works.

4. Reloading in a hurry is not to be disparaged. Any form of reloading must be practiced prior to need, not during the need. I started with loops. Loops can be secure, positive and useful, but they are a pain when small motor skills are impaired. I moved on to various other forms, ending with the modern version of speed loaders. I prefer speed loaders (HKS, if anyone asks); but the use must be practiced at home (paying attention to safe conduct) or on the range if possible. Being shot at is NOT conducive to learning the motions.
 
Here is a helpful trick: You can carry two speed strips (6x.357) in a nylon glove pouch (designed to carry two pairs of latex gloves. I have a Patroltek one from Bianchi. An observer cannot tell that you are carrying ammo instead of gloves, or whatever else they think that a small pouch like this might hold. If you wear Costco Kirkland Jeans with the larger watch pocket you can also carry a 3rd speed strip in it.

Since I may carry either a 5 shot 442, or a 6 shot M&P, or my recently purchased 6 shot Kimber K6s, I keep my pouch stocked with two strips containing 6 rounds of Winchester PDX .38 Special +P. I can think of nothing worse than needing a reload while carrying a gun in .38 Special and discovering that my pouch contains .357 Magnum.
 
Reading through this old thread has been a treat. Here's my contribution, which I also learned from this forum: I almost always download by one when I'm shooting revolvers. Then I spin the cylinder and close it without looking. That lets me see if I'm flinching when the hammer falls on the empty chamber. I think this little revolver trick has done more for improving my shooting than anything else.

I'm not a big fan of snap caps because they are pricey and the weight is all wrong. They don't interact with the chambers like real rounds.The first thing I did when I got a reloading press was to load up a batch of dummy rounds with no powder or primer to practice speedloader drills at home. I marked up the case head with a sharpie so I can tell at a glance it's a dummy:
dummy.jpg

If you have a friend with a reloading press, buy him a beer in exchange for a handful of dummy rounds!
 
Just to set the record straight, NONE of the CHP officers at Newhall dumped their cases into their shirt pockets as has been purported for years, nor did they pick up their brass. Some grossly misinformed person crafted that story shortly after the incident and it took on a life of its own and became "fact".

I agree. I think that the brass-in-pocket-at-Newhall myth originated from another incident, along the border, which was actually WON by the officer/agent. The engagement was at long range, and the officer had good cover. IIRC, this is told in the late, great Bill Jordan’s book.

An actual part of the incident at Newhall, as I understand it, is that the officer completed a full reload, while behind cover/concealment, filling each chamber of his cylinder. He was then killed before he could successfully re-engage, which MIGHT mean that a partial reload would have been a better idea. Another, better idea might have been to keep a vigilant eye on the whole battle, which is why some instructors now teach a reload with the weapon held much higher that the traditional belt level. We can train to reload, by feel, at waist level, while keeping one’s eyes on the battle, but it is a very human thing to look at what one’s hands are doing, especially under stress. A second gun might be a better mousetrap.

Newhall was still a relatively fresh wound when I entered the police academy in 1983. We were required to buy speed-loaders, as we were required to buy our duty weapons. (Financing was available; the cost could be payroll-deducted, as we were paid while cadets.) Secondary revolvers were encouraged. I was rather religious about the second gun from the beginning, and went through quite a succession of J-snubs, until I up-sized to an SP101, in the late Nineties. I still have my final J-snub in that series of duty back-up guns, a Performance Center weapon based on a 642.

In hindsight, I wish that I would have kept each and every one of my succession of Eighties/Nineties J-frames. IIRC, Models 60 x 2, 649, 40, 640 x 3; all pre-keyhole. All, except the first 60, were so very nice, and that one could have had its issues solved by a talented armorer or ‘smith.

Actually, my hands are somewhat long, but are not wide, and my fingers are skinny, so there is ample room on an SP101 factory grip for my pinkie, so an SP101 performs much like a duty pistol in my hands, within the limitations of the sights, and my eyes. When I used Glock duty pistols, from 2002 to 2004, I was shooting a 2.25” SP101 notably better, overall, than a G27, and about as well, or better, at short range, than than a G22*. (I switched to a P229R DAK duty pistol, in 2004, as soon as I could buy a DAK, and immediately started posting posting much better qual scores. Notably, DAK was my choice, as DA/SA was the the norm for HPD officers.)

I used some of the considerable overtime* money earned in the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey, to buy a nice gift for myself, a 3” Wiley Clapp edition GP100. (It became a retirement gift, as the long hours, plus having to clean-up and mitigate flood damage at home, resulted in chronic exhaustion, on top of the assorted minor injuries. I had thought I might well retire by the end of 2018, or early 2019, anyway, so I moved-up my exit date to very early 2018.) There is something very comforting about a sturdy sixgun, with a bit of heft to it. My first GP100 had been acquired in 1990 or 1991. The original GP100 factory grip could have been designed by a long-lost twin, from whom I was separated at birth; it is that good.

*Gen4 Glocks fit my hands much better than Gen3 Glocks, and I shoot Gen4 measurably better, so I now really like the Gen4 G17. I do not shoot any Glock as well as a 4” GP100.

**The long hours of OT were mandated. Harvey hit the area quite hard. Ike, in 2008, had changed me from prime-of-life to middle-aged, and Harvey changed me to an old man.
 
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All my buddies rolled their eyes at me when I sold a colt 1911 to get my new king cobra. ( not enough rounds ) but with threads like this I don’t feel under-armed at all! I have to do my part but the knowledge is here
 
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