Single Action Tips, Tricks, and Safety Concerns

[Tony_the_tiger]

Dear Citizens of the High Road,

My entire experience in revolvers has been with double action only and single action/double action revolvers.

For the purpose of expanding my education in this regard and safely using a single action only firearm, I am requesting appropriate resources.

I will be using a new model style Ruger single action with the transfer bar.

Some questions for consideration:

Can the firearm be discharged with the hammer alone, or must the hammer be locked up and the trigger engaged to fire?

Is there any safety consideration to carrying the single action firearm with an empty chamber, or does that apply only to single action revolvers without a transfer bar design?

Do you typically use a holster with a strap over the hammer for carrying the SA revolver?

In the same line of thought, I have noticed many SA revolvers do not cover the trigger as is common in DA revolvers, any safety considerations here?

Do you carry your SA revolver strongside or crossdraw?

What tips or tricks learned from experience might you be able to impart in terms of mechanical aspects to look out for, loading or reloading the firearm, and other things that might not be apparent to someone with DA experience only?

How might one "checkout" a SA revolver as opposed to a DA revolver?

Whats the deal with base pin replacements I hear about?

Any and all information or appropriate external references to reading material are welcome.

Thanks,

-Triple T

 

[rcmodel]

With the Ruger transfer bar, the trigger must be pulled to move the transfer bar up behind the firing pin so the hammer can hit it.

It is safe to carry fully loaded.

No safety concern with an exposed trigger type revolver holster.
If the holster fits as it should, it will not allow the cylinder to turn inside the holster, so it is impossible to cock the gun in the holster.

Safety straps & hammer thongs are more to prevent losing the gun out of the holster then anything else.

I carry strong side, just behind the hip, out of the way of banging on things.

The main mechanical thing to watch out for on SA's is loose screws falling out.

rc

 

[Sam1911]

Can the firearm be discharged with the hammer alone, or must the hammer be locked up and the trigger engaged to fire?

You mean "fanning?" Holding the trigger back and just letting the hammer fall? Yeah, they will fire that way. Most don't recommend it. Why do you want to?

Is there any safety consideration to carrying the single action firearm with an empty chamber, or does that apply only to single action revolvers without a transfer bar design?

Nope. The new models -- and almost every SA revolver made today -- are safe to carry fully loaded.

Do you typically use a holster with a strap over the hammer for carrying the SA revolver?

Many do. A strap or hammer thong does make good sense. A flap holster is also a decent option.

In the same line of thought, I have noticed many SA revolvers do not cover the trigger as is common in DA revolvers, any safety considerations here?

No need. As pulling the trigger does nothing unless the hammer is cocked, there's not a compelling reason to cover it up.

Do you carry your SA revolver strongside or crossdraw?

I don't carry anything cross-draw.

How might one "checkout" a SA revolver as opposed to a DA revolver?

Much the same way as the revolver checkout sticky says. It's just a little simpler with an SA. You should be able to figure out the parts you can skip.

Whats the deal with base pin replacements I hear about?

Read this page: http://www.realguns.com/archives/008.htm

A quote:

The objectives in replacing the pin are: to tighten up the cylinder to base pin fit, making it's rotation closer to concentric and improving chamber/bore alignment, to have a harder bearing surface for longer wear, and to make the pin easier to remove and install.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Can the firearm be discharged with the hammer alone, or must the hammer be locked up and the trigger engaged to fire?

You mean "fanning?" Holding the trigger back and just letting the hammer fall? Yeah, they will fire that way. Most don't recommend it. Why do you want to?

I don't. The purpose of the question was to verify that the firearm cannot be discharged by the hammer snagging and releasing accidentally.

 

[Sam1911]

OH, well that's completely different. No, if you're not holding the trigger back, it can't fire.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Thanks for the link, Sam1911. Any other resources or anecdotes from experience are greatly appreciated.

 

[JJHACK]

Sam, I agree with this holding the trigger back to fire as well. I have tried it plenty even with the FA .model 83, however there is a lot of chatter on the net saying that it will fire from the hammer alone, without the trigger being back.

I cannot see that, at least not so far. I have tried plenty and cannot get the hammer to fall to the primer unless the trigger is all the way back (pulled) not sure how folks say this is otherwise.

If you can shed light on this it would help a lot of us.

 

[rcmodel]

There is no light to shed.

The way Ruger's transfer bar works makes it impossible to fire unless the trigger is back and the transfer bar is up in front of the firing pin to transfer the hammer blow to the firing pin.

It is 100% foolproof.

rc

 

[HankR]

Do you carry your SA revolver strongside or crossdraw?

I don't carry anything cross-draw.

I tried carrying a 5 1/2 inch Blackhawk crossdraw for awhile, thinking it would be better for jobs where I'm climbing in and out of the truck. It was better for that, but got in the way of other things. Still better in a seatbelt situation, but not for using a farm truck.

I do carry in a vertical shoulder holster, under my jacket, when rifle hunting. It's out of the way, and not exposed to the elements.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Do you carry your SA revolver strongside or crossdraw?

I carry mine cross-draw but it has nothing to do with safety reasons. I just find it more comfortable and less restrictive while hunting. Sitting in a ladder stand, it takes much less movement to simply reach across and draw the revolver than re-positioning your entire body to draw from strong side.

Just my preferred way. Everyone is different.

 

[BCRider]

Nope. The new models -- and almost every SA revolver made today -- are safe to carry fully loaded.

A slight correction here. The clones of the original Colt action style gun made by Uberti and Pietta and often sold under a number of house names in the US have their firing pins attached directly to the hammer. Such guns are NOT safe to carry fully loaded. They should be carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

 

[Sam1911]

Right. I should have said "except for clones of historic models."

 

[JJHACK]

RCmodel,

I may not have specified as well as I should have. I was not referencing the Ruger Products. The original post was not brand specific. My query was in regard to the Freedom Arms Model 83.

This Model of Single Action Revolver does not have a transfer bar, it uses a Hammer Block design.

Hence the question on my part whether it will perform the same way.

 

[MikeJackmin]

There are a few other things you should know.

Ruger single-actions are very durable, safe, and well-designed guns. But they do have their quirks, like everything else.

On many (not all) you will find that when the cylinder clicks into position, that it is out of line with the loading gate. This is slightly odd, but normal in all but the latest models.

Sometimes, particularly when shooting heavy loads, the base pin - the pin that runs down the center of the cylinder - may start to work itself loose. This can cause the transfer bar to misbehave. The short-term solution is just to press it back into place, the longer-term solution is an aftermarket base pin. I've been shooting Rugers for decades and never had a problem, but YMMV.

The various models can be a bit confusing to keep track of. Most (but not all) of the 'blackhawk' revolvers are very strong, strong enough to safely fire ammo loaded to much higher than normal pressures. This ammunition is referred to as 'Ruger Only' loads, but like I said, not every Ruger can safely handle them. If this is something that will be important to you, make sure the particular gun you want is suitable for that use.

That said, any of the Ruger line will outlive you and your children if fed a steady diet of standard-pressure ammunition.

Adjustable sights are a great idea unless you know you don't want them.

The trigger can be safely lightened a bit with an easy, reversible modification. Remove the grips, and simply lift one of the two legs of the large coil spring off of its resting place. If you don't like the result, just put it back.

Ruger customer service has a good reputation. If you ever have a problem, let them fix it.

Learn how to safely decock your gun, and practice with the gun unloaded until you feel confident. Everybody has a different method. Mine is as follows:

Place the weak-hand thumb between the hammer and the frame. Use the strong-hand thumb to pull the fully-cocked hammer back even further, so that it is under spring tension. Press the trigger, ease the hammer down as far as it can comfortably go, then release the trigger. This will drop the transfer bar and make it OK to remove your weak-hand thumb from between the hammer and the frame. Ease the hammer down the rest of the way. The only trick to it is to make sure you lower the hammer far enough to get past the half-cock notch before you release the trigger.

The part about rocking the hammer back at the start of the process is to avoid being surprised by the spring tension when the trigger is depressed. This is a good trick, even with other handguns.

Experiment with your grip. I (and many others) prefer to leave the pinky finger curled under the grips, and just let the gun rock back under recoil. Others prefer a higher grip with the pinky in the more usual position.

 

[CraigC]

...almost every SA revolver made today -- are safe to carry fully loaded.

90% of the single actions produced today, that are not Rugers, do not have a transfer bar and are not safe to carry fully loaded. Which amounts to quite a few guns by quite a few makers and importers.

Do you typically use a holster with a strap over the hammer for carrying the SA revolver?

Yes but usually not engaged.

Do you carry your SA revolver strongside or crossdraw?

Either way, depending on the situation. Usually crossdraw if I'm hunting.

How might one "checkout" a SA revolver as opposed to a DA revolver?

Please note the timing portion is all wrong. That is checking for chamber/bore alignment, not timing.

Whats the deal with base pin replacements I hear about?

Tighter fit, usually with a set screw to keep them from jumping. That said, I've never had that problem with them but I do like the Belt Mt. #5 because it allows a better grip and is better looking that Ruger's design.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Hey CraigC, glad you posted, I'll be contacting you soon for some holster work if you are up for it. Thanks for the tips and clarification. I am approaching the world of SA revolvers with an open mind predisposed to take advantage of the wisdom and experience available on this board.

 

[Sam1911]

90% of the single actions produced today, that are not Rugers, do not have a transfer bar and are not safe to carry fully loaded. Which amounts to quite a few guns by quite a few makers and importers.

Which is how many?

 

[back40]

not much to mention that hasn't been touched on already. i carry my single actions cross draw. i prefer it for comfort and it also keeps my slung rifle from smacking against it when hunting.

 

[ZVP]

Triple=T you didn't say why you chose a S/A and what caliber you want.
" I like it" is a good enough reason!
I sometimes carry a Ruger Vaquero ,357 Magnum loaded with Remington +P Golden Sabre ammo. This is the most accurate bullet for my revolver. Stopping power is good from the 4 5/8" BBL.
I carry it in a Vertical Shoulder Holster, along with at least one 8 Shot Speed Strip in my pocket for spare ammo.
You are really limited for reload speed with this design. I took a trick from the experts at Gunsite and hold 2 cartriges in the loading hand and try to practice feeding the 2 one after the other sa I turn the cylinder. Remember a stickey or dirty case slows ejection. Plan for and practice ejection moves.
Don't fan it, that's Movie stuff, woefully inaccurate in general and is best reserved for speed drawing experts.
A Ruher can be carried fully loaded with 6 cartridges thanks to the transfer bar. Like was said, carry old or non-transfer bar Revolvers with 5 to prevent accidents.
Depending on the caliber a .45 Long Colt sometimes will just drop the heavy fired cases out the Gate
Other shells are too light to do this. It doesn't always work though.

I chose the .357 because of it's versitality.
38 Specials for Pratice and snakes, 38 Special +P and .357 Magnums for "social work" and hunting. A proven Man Stopper!
The S/A is better than no gun at all but it has limitations Know them and pratice to overcome them.
Frankly all those who carried a S/A didn't go wrong, the revolvers worked well and protected their owners no doubt about that as History tells it!
Your choice may be somewhat antiquated but viable and will likely prove to give you good service.
A D/A or Semi-Auto might be a better choice for speed but gunfights aren't always decided upon speed, they mainly involve accuracy!
Please check with Gunsite Training Academy in Arizona, they have a special S/A training Course taught by experts, it's well worth the cost!!!
Good luck with your choice!
BPDave

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Hey ZVP, thanks for asking... it's one I have been eyeing a long time, a Ruger Bisley Flattop Blackhawk in .44 special with a 4-5/8" barrel. Part of a Lipseys run from 2010 that will help me increase enjoyment in that particular caliber exponentially.

(http://www.lipseysguns.com/post/Ruger-Bisley-Flattop-44-Special-4-5-8.aspx)

 

[b.thomas]

Stay away from fanning and practicing quick draw with live ammo.
Fanning: because it's a waist of good ammo and can be rough on the gun.
Quick draw: I've know a couple of folks that tried it, one shot himself in the foot, the other the leg and dropped the revolver (a real colt too) on a concrete floor, messing the gun really bad.:banghead:

once in a great while I'll hang around with some really, stupid people...................

 

[CraigC]

Which is how many?

A lot. The Colt SAA. Every USFA revolver ever made. Every Colt and Remington percussion replica made by Pietta and Uberti. Every Colt, Remington and S&W cartridge replica made by Pietta and Uberti. You don't keep half a dozen importers busy, including Stoeger, Cimarron, EMF, CVA, Traditions, Dixie Gun Works and Taylor's, with a handful of guns.

 

[35 Whelen]

Do you typically use a holster with a strap over the hammer for carrying the SA revolver?

I much prefer the hammer thong.

Do you carry your SA revolver strong-side or cross-draw?

Properly positioned, cross-draw has its advantages especially where long-ish barrels are concerned; it keeps the barrel from gouging into the seat when riding in a vehicle. That said, I carry strong-side. Over the last few days I've been doing a bit of plowing in preparation for planting wheat. I was on and off the tractor a lot, especially last night when I was sowing. In doing so, and swinging my legs over my 3 year old grand-daughters head while mounting/dismounting the tractor, I had zero problems with the strong-side positioning. In fact I can't really think of any time it's been a disadvantage except maybe when bending to go under my electric fence when the grip can easily snag the wire.

FYI, I carry a Colt clone 99.9% of the time (no transfer bar) and usually on an empty chamber. But when it warmed up last spring I wanted to carry a shot load in one of the cylinders so I added one to the normally empty cylinder. For safety's sake I keep the hammer lowered with the firing pin resting on the rear of the cylinder between the rims of two cartridges. I also tightened the hammer thong just a smidge.

What's the deal with base pin replacements I hear about?

Craig pretty much nailed this one, but I will add that with the Colt clone I shoot the most, a 4 3/4" .44 Special, I began having a little trouble removing the base pin. A close inspection revealed that under recoil the base pin screw had been peening the soft base pin. I ordered a slightly oversized Belt Mountain pin, fitted it, and all has been well ever since.

On a side note, I just bought a New Model Vaquero in 45 Colt and I think I'm going to really like it. After fire-lapping the tight spot out of the barrel it shoots really well (some sub 2" groups @ 25 yds) and like all Rugers, it appears to be built like a tank. Next I'll be installing a spring kit and doing a trigger job.

Good luck T3

35W

 

[Sam1911]

A lot.

Oh, I understand that there are a number of companies making or importing old style clones. But how many of the single-action revolvers out there do all those clones represent, compared with the guns Ruger (and a couple others) has produced in the new style? Maybe 10% of the total? 25% even? Doubt it's more than that, but I'm not sure.

 

[CraigC]

But how many of the single-action revolvers out there do all those clones represent, compared with the guns Ruger (and a couple others) has produced in the new style? Maybe 10% of the total? 25% even?

If we're gonna go back 40yrs we might as well include all of Ruger Old Model production starting in 1953. If we're going back that far, we can add some more manufacturers to the mix. Point being, single actions with the half-cock traditional action that are not safe to carry fully loaded are not the tiny minority 'some' claim them to be. Ruger is the only manufacturer to have produced a significant number of transfer bar guns.

As far as production numbers, we'll never know.