Question for single-stage afficianados

ATL Dave wrote:
...why would someone get all jazzed to go get a new SS press beyond whatever existing SS they already have?

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I have reloaded on a single stage for the last 40+ years. It (now they, since I have one at home and at the farm) are RCBS Reloader Specials. I recently bought an RCBS Rock Chucker. Why? Well, I'm glad you asked:

• The Rock Chucker has a compound leverage arrangement, while the Reloader Special did not. This takes on significance when you're case forming and entering your 6th decade of life.
• The Reloader Specials have been well-used and the steel pins at the pivot points had worn to the point that there was noticeable give in the linkage even after it cammed-over.
  
• RCBS, true to their lifetime warranty, offered to send me replacement parts for the linkage, but siren song of compound leverage was too great and I declined since I felt that after 40 years, I was due for (and could now afford) an upgrade.

The Reloader Special in rougher shape will be retired and the other one will be kept for use as a decapping press (so that all the dirt and primer residue ends up on it and not my new Rock Chucker.

Seems to me that the job of a single stage press is pretty simple - hold a cartridge in line with a die and squish them together

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Actually, that's the concept underlying ANY reloading press; single stage, turret or progressive.

I'm somewhat perplexed by the huge variety of single-stage presses on the market, with new entrants even at this late date.

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"late date"? You make it sound as if the arrival of the turret and progressive presses (which have been around for decades) rendered the single stage obsolete and that it is simply going to vanish some day soon. The epitaph of the single stage has been written many times during my lifetime and yet the type soldiers on refusing to conform to the dictates of its detractors. The equipment makers know their market. If they're all investing in developing new single stage presses - as you acknowledge they are - it must be because they see a market for them sufficient to justify incurring the cost.

I am a single stage loader and will continue to be one for life. I load previously prepared cases in small batches (usually 50, never more than 200 cases). I weigh each powder charge. I conduct no less than three visual inspections of that powder charge. I inspect the seating and crimp of each round as the bullet is seated. None of this can be as readily done on a progressive. And every reloader I personally know does things much the same way and so has no need for - or desire for - a turret or progressive press.

ATLDave said:

As someone who got into reloading with a turret and is now into the progressive world, I'm somewhat perplexed by the huge variety of single-stage presses on the market, with new entrants even at this late date. Seems to me that the job of a single stage press is pretty simple - hold a cartridge in line with a die and squish them together (and then pull them apart).

I'm sure this is just the equivalent of someone who doesn't own a car asking why there are so many different kinds since they're just supposed to carry you over the roads but... what's the difference(s) with these things? Other than needing a larger window (for, say, 50BMG), why would someone get all jazzed to go get a new SS press beyond whatever existing SS they already have?

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I changed mine to get a better spent primer capture, among other considerations. I liked the idea of having dies mounted on adapters that I could twist on and off the press fitting. Finally, I appreciated having cast iron versus aluminum and better rifle cartridge capability. I avoided some choices due to price difference, with some seeming needlessly expensive.

I currently have 1 Partner Press, 2 RockChucker Presses, and a recently received gift from a friend, a Lyman T-Mag. I am very happy with what I have, and have no intentions of changing to anything else. If it works, don't change it, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just my $0.02
dg

There is still a demand for them so I would say the manufacturers are just updating periodically to try to look like they are keeping current or reduce manufacturing costs. As far as improvements in single stage the only difference I really see between them is the linkages, the primer catcher, and on press priming system. A good single stage is really nice for careful reloading of rifle accuracy loads, but at this point in my life I can't imagine using a single stage for reloading pistol or 223 in volume, just don't have the time anymore!

I bought a Lee hand press because, I too, dislike depriming on my Hornady. Why they didn't bore a hole through the thing I don't know. When they come out with a (Hornady) red one with a spent primer tube I will probably get another. Then sell the other two.
Eventually I would like a progressive, but just for pistols.

The market they are after are the newcomers getting into hand loading. There will always be a use for a SS press even after you move up to a AP. Primer handling is one area where most all have a fault. Either it's feeding it, seating, or handling the spent primer. Mechanical advantage has a big advantage if your dealing with large calibers.

There are some specialized reloading tasks that just work better on a single stage press. Hence, it is handy to have one around.

I'd say most of the O-frame presses do their work pretty much the same with small differences between them not including size and purchase price. The larger presses like the RCBS Rockchucker or Redding Big Boss II will do just about any reloading task and fit about any case smaller than 50 BMG. Less expensive and smaller presses have their limitations when it comes to available mechanical advantage, maximum case size, and tool life.

There are one or two presses still on the market that have weathered the test of time that mount dies differently from an O-frame. They have their advantages and have a following. One of them is the Forster Co-Ax press.

On my single stage presses, I do case forming for wildcat and obsolete cartridges, decapping cases when I do not want to size the case, decapping live primers for recover when a case gets damaged in reloading, some case trimming using trim dies, swage primer pocket crimps, reload 25 ACP because I do not have a shell plate for my progressive, reload some other cartridges that I do not load or shoot much of, and a few other tasks.

Demi-human said:

Why they didn't bore a hole through the thing I don't know. When they come out with a (Hornady) red one with a spent primer tube I will probably get another.

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That has been an incredible mystery to me for years why they all don't have through ram spent primer handling. I have a rock chucker and a lyman crusher and never use either because the spent primer handling and on press priming system are just useless. The primer handling systems on my Lee turret are just perfect. When I get around to it I want to replace them both with a Lee classic cast for the rare occasions I still use a single stage.

Wait, what happens to spent primers on these presses that don't drop them through the center of the ram??

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Too often they miss the pan or bounce and wind up all over the shop.

ATLDave said:

Wait, what happens to spent primers on these presses that don't drop them through the center of the ram??

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In my experience, some actually make it to the capture device (if the press has one), the rest wind up on the bench or the floor.

The car analogy is a good place to start. Someone wants to make money and there are folks out there that will buy anything. Geo’s, Yugo’s, Sabb’s and the list can go on and on, all made money exchange hands, nothing new, innovative, ground breaking about them. Actually in some cases the most basic of basic is the concept, very little intellectual investment per dollar in return.

Low volume shooters have no need for a progressive set up

Easy Answer would be the Chevy vs Ford, which would you pick and why?

an analogy;
I have a pneumatic nail gun and it works great. I can assemble projects in no time. But sometimes a good old fashioned hammer is precisely the tool for the job. There have not been a lot of technological improvements to the hammer in decades, yet it is still an essential tool that I will use in lieu of the pneumatic for certain tasks. While one hammer can do a wde variety of jobs, there are different hammers for different special tasks.

For example, I have a claw hammer and a ball peen hammer (among others). they can both drive nails but, while my ball peen has been used to drive nails, it is designed for and best used to shape metal.

ATLDave said:

I get that. My question is more about why one would choose SS press X over SS press Y.

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Price, quality, personal preference, same as most things. I like Forster COAX best but I still use a Lee also.

I loaded on an RCBS Rockchucker press for decades.
I was reading a book by Glen Zediker called Handloading for Competition and he mentioned something about Redding presses seeming to give him slightly less runout. So, I bought one. I guess I was just bored with the same press for so many years. I have been using the Redding press for about five years, maybe closer to six.

I now want a Forrester Co-Ax press for the features it has to offer. Look it up and you can see the features.


FWIW: I own two Dillon 550 progressive presses with all kinds of caliber set-ups and all kinds of accessories but I almost never use them. Years ago, when I was into things like the action pistol shooting sports I used the crap out of them. I loaded 10s of thousands of rounds on them. Now, I am primarily interested in rifle shooting. I am into loading the best possible rifle ammunition I can. Speed means nothing to me. If I spend two or three hours loading 50 rounds of ammunition I consider it time well spent. In fact, at least some of the time I load my rifle ammunition using LE Wilson hand dies and an arbor press. I explore rifle reloading: I try different powders, different bullets, different primers, different brass, different brass prep, different seating depths....... setting all that up on a progressive loader to load 50 rounds is a waste of time to me. I want to see and feel every step of the process and make measurements and adjustments as I am loading. Again, speed means absolutely nothing to me with rifle ammunition. I am semi-retired. Other than in the dead of winter (like now), a typical day for me is to get up, go to some rifle range, shoot 50 to 100 rounds of rifle ammo, then I go home and clean the rifle and spend the rest of the day and evening reloading the brass I just used making adjustments to the load based on whatever the results were for the shooting I did that day. And I do that 3-4 days a week. Of course I could just pick a load, set up the progressive and get it done as fast as I can so I can go sit in front of the TV and drink

Once a year or maybe once every two years, I run low on pistol ammo and I fire up the progressives and load up a few thousand of each caliber I need and then never touch the progressive again for a year or two. I only shoot pistols in the winter. If it is a nice day out, I dont want to waste the day that I could be shooting a rifle.

Two Lyman turrets,and two of the same co O frames,two 450 lube sizers.

What bothered me most was that even the ones that did go in the container were scattering the primer residue about the area.I could not stand the contamination and wiping everything down after doing any depriming. There is a service that will bore the ram, but I have system now and I hate change.

I am not exactly low volume when I do things, I will use my single stage to do four or five hundred case through a process cycle, like size them all or expand them.

The only thing that keeps me from getting a Lock N Load is ,well, twelve hundred dollers for the whole shebang. I realize if I wish to play the games I will need the progressive. I will need to work hard to schedule everything properly just to have time for a days event, I will have to make stringent use of my handloading time.


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Well four fourty four, that is exactly how I am trying to get my life to turn out. May we both do that for another many years.

I reload nearly all my handgun stuff on a progressive (Dillon XL 650). And all the rifle stuff I load in bulk. (6.5x55, .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield AFTER I have specific loads.)

I have a Dillon AT 500, the Dillon answer to a turret press. I use that more for developing loads and accurate loads for rifles.

I am looking for a sturdy single stage for case forming (turning one into another) and for the few calibers for which Dillon does not make shell plates. (8mm Lebel, for instance.)

I have no thought single stage presses are obsolete, but they are a pain for making several hundred finished rounds for 'standard' handgun or rifle loads. And others are perfectly welcome to make up their own minds.