Lots of stupid PRS/LR rifle questions from a noob

1KPerDay said:

1. Anyone shoot .270 winchester in these types of rifles? If not, why not?
2. Difference between 6mm CR and 6.5CR for real life uses? And don't say .5mm
3. would a Ruger American in 6CM be a bad choice for a first rifle? Or a Savage of some sort? Do I need to spend a grand or more for the rifle? Like a Ruger Precision? I'm cheap. But I think I'd like to be able to shoot out to 800-1000 yards and actually hit.
4. I shoot long guns lefty... do I need a LH bolt gun? Is my right hand busy with the bag? remember I know nearly nothing about this type of shooting.
5. 6.5 CM is the new hotness but is there any real reason for its popularity? Is there anything that would be better for a tyro?

thanks

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I have never personally seen a .270 used in any prs or lr shooting, not to say you can't. There is a lack of quality bullets for that caliber and recoil.

6mm creed will shoot flatter and have less recoil, which in turn will allow you to spot your own shots.

Even though you could probably get some distance hits with the ruger american, probably not the best choice. I would prefer the savage lrp... personal choice without spending a ton of money.

The left hand rifle is your own choice, I shoot with lefties and they only shoot right handed rifles when prone or on a bench.

The 6.5 creed is great, I run a custom ar10 in that caliber... There are many calibers you could run, 6.5x47, 6.5 creed, 6mm creed, 243 win, 6 washer, etc... just remember to have a rifle with the rifling twist capable of shooting whatever bullet you plan to shoot... the 6.5 creed is best supported by factory match ammo if you don' reload.

OK, noob - you asked

Long range is a science. It's conditions and wind doping down the full length of the range, it's really good optics if you want consistent small impact areas. It's the bullet chosen for sectional density and aero shape (BC), and all else in support of that. And it's not usually done with a light weight rifle.

So out to 300 yds/m is hunting distances after you have trained yourself to shoot reliably at that distance - no small feat in itself.

Beyond that, it is getting pretty exclusive. Think about how you are going to find a blood trail and track that wounded animal when you start the chase 900 feet from the impact ... And the further you move the impact zone out, the higher the likelihood of a wounded animal and the further you have to hike, run to get on that trail and track ...

If you are only talking range and target event shooting, it may be another matter ...

Don't get caught up in the newest cartridge. Folks have been shooting the 1,000 yard range for a long time with military calibers. The 30-06 has been used on the 1,000 for decades. Ditto the 308. Sure the Swedes came along and showed us that a 6.5 could do real well on the 1,000 - so we all started to tinker. But, you don't have to go there at first.

It's more about the rifle build as to how well it shoots. Any number of makers can sell you a MOA rifle out of the box. Something unheard of a couple of decades back. You can buy a Tikka T3 in a number of calibers that will shoot match ammo tighter than you can as the trigger person - all day, every day - as an example. There are others that will equal it. It's about fit (barrel, throat, bedding, pillar, etc.) and quality parts. So that might be an $800 rifle.

You'll need to spend that amount (minimum) on glass to be able to shoot well beyond 300 yds/m. And. if you are hunting dusk and dawn, it'll be even more for best low light gathering. I'd say minimum $1,500 for the scope/mounts. It could easily get to $2,500+ ...

Yes, you need a left handed action. You need to be as comfortable and relaxed as possible to function well. But, just as important - it needs to fit you well. You have to go try rifles and stock configurations to see what fits you as it should.

My suggestion is to get a .30 cal used rifle in lefty that seems to fit well. Learn to shoot it well. Learn what you want to change to actually improve the performance of the rifle and the shooter. Then move up. Do not try to skin this one the first time ...

There are so many well made .30 cartridges/bullet combos, you can experiment a LOT with factory ammo while learning. Then narrow the function and start hunting for the next rifle

1KPerDay said:

1. Anyone shoot .270 winchester in these types of rifles? If not, why not?

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Long action cartridges don't apply. Extra rifle weight, extra recoil, extra powder use, lower barrel life... The 270 doesn't have a great selection of high BC bullets available, and those which DO have high BC's will carry considerably more recoil than the 6.5 and 6mm's. Take note, the 6.5's dominated a handful of years, but the 6mm's are quickly taking over - the game is about managing recoil even despite awkward positions. The 270 isn't really punishing in comparison to other hunting cartridges, but compared to the PRS game rifles, it's a super magnum.

1KPerDay said:

2. Difference between 6mm CR and 6.5CR for real life uses? And don't say .5mm

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Less recoil in the 6mm. Better bullets and more makers of fast twist barrels are converting the game over to the 6mm's, I think we'll see fewer and fewer 6.5's in coming years, probably hanging around 20-25% eventually when the dust settles.

1KPerDay said:

3. would a Ruger American in 6CM be a bad choice for a first rifle? Or a Savage of some sort? Do I need to spend a grand or more for the rifle? Like a Ruger Precision? I'm cheap. But I think I'd like to be able to shoot out to 800-1000 yards and actually hit.

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Here's a reality - you need flawless feeding, because you WILL be on a stage where you're running the bolt hard and fast. Starting with a base model rifle and upgrading to be game worthy will see you spending FAR more than a Savage 10 Ashbury or RPR would cost out of the gate. You need a stiff stock or chassis, something which fits you perfectly, and ideally something adaptable for barricade blocks (MPA rail), and really ideally, something running AICS mags. Do the math on what your upgrades will cost and you might come close to breaking even, but you won't save nearly as much as it seems on first blush. I built a Savage 12FV into a practice rifle, MDT factory second chassis plus a LuthAR, magpul mags, cabela's sale and savage rebate = under $300 purchase price with tax... I'm sitting about $200 cheaper than buying an RPR or Savage 12 BA Stealth (but I have the longer chassis), and I had to use a blemished chassis to get there... Really didn't save enough to have made it worth my trouble. You might contact your local match directors or clubs hosting Club matches and talk about their gear and their match formats. We didn't run any here, at least none of which I was aware, but there's a Factory class option in the PRS now, it has price limits and modification limits - models like the 12 BA Stealth and the RPR or the Bergara 14 were supposedly the target, hopefully driving new blood by favoring turnkey factory rifles, and giving them a smaller pond away from the big sharks running the GAP's and Defiants. Might be an option if your local group is running them. There's also a gas gun series with AR-15 and AR-10/LR-308 classes, we only had one with our local this year, but it was nice to be able to drag out one of my AR's and be drop in competition ready.

1KPerDay said:

4. I shoot long guns lefty... do I need a LH bolt gun? Is my right hand busy with the bag? remember I know nearly nothing about this type of shooting.

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I personally would not recommend trying to run your rifle wrong handed. Whether you're busy with the bag, trying to support a "creatively flimsy" barricade, or cranking your turret and racing your action against a timed skills stage, you will not want to be running the wrong hand. I'm thinking about the typical barricade skills stage where you're taking a shot from 4+ elevations and hole positions in a Vtac style barricade, running the bolt, dialing, and moving your bag every shot. Now do it with the wrong hand... Screw that noise...

1KPerDay said:

5. 6.5 CM is the new hotness but is there any real reason for its popularity? Is there anything that would be better for a tyro?

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The 6.5 is already old news for the PRS matches. Wanna say the 6.5's were under 50% of the field the last two seasons? PRB's "What the Pros Use" articles would be a good start for exploring. The 6 Dasher, Creed, x47L, XC, SLR, etc are gaining ground, on the back of the super slippery 115's, and more and more guys trying to run free recoil (right or wrong) from any and all positions. I already have the reamer to convert my RPR to 6mm SLR when my 6.5 barrel gives up next year. I'm strongly considering putting a Dasher barrel on my Savage practice rifle for 2018 and fielding it as well.

The good news: You won't be married to any cartridge too long. You'll use up brass pretty quickly, and equally burn up barrels. I don't shoot much, definitely not enough, and I'm getting a new tomato stake every season. If you're not adverse to a little load rework, you can swap cartridges every season, or more frequently even, I've read the average guy in the top 100 of the PRS is running 4,000-6,000rnds per year, two barrels net (spread among a few rifles, of course).

Varminterror said:

I already have the reamer to convert my RPR to 6mm SLR when my 6.5 barrel gives up next year.

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IF you don't mine my asking, where did you get your 6mm SLR reamer and what throat?? I'm re-barreling my .243 RPR this summer and the 6 SLR is what I'm going to.

Thanks,

Chuck

The way I read the OP, he is considering "exploring" long range rifle shooting with an inclination to try some PRS matches. I'd consider buying a used hunting rifle in a flat shooting caliber. Get something solid with a proven record, like a 700 or a M70. Lots of old hunters are kicking the bucket and their guns are being sold. 243 and 308 would be good calibers among others.

I see the OP had a child in his avatar. PRS matches are typically multi-day events that will require some driving and overnight stays. I know a couple of young married guys with children that compete, and by their accounts take a lot of heat from their wives. BTW one shoots a .243 and the other a .308 so exotic wildcats are not necessary for admission.

My advice is get a toe wet before you jump in headfirst.

What is PRS?

The 270 was designed as a hunting rifle. All of the bullets and rifles are designed with hunting in mind. It can be a pretty decent long range option for casual shooting, but can't really compete with other options designed specifically for target shooting.

The 243 and 260 CAN work for long range shooting, but both usually require custom rifles and hand loads tweaked for best performance. The 6mm and 6.5 Creedmoor are very similar to 243 and 260, but designed to provide off the shelf rifles and ammo that do the same thing as modified 243 and 260 rifles and ammo.

I don't know much about the newer 6mm Creedmoor. But the 6.5 has become popular with guys wanting to hunt as well as target shooters because it is so well balanced. It shoots similar bullet weights as 270 about 100-125 fps slower at the muzzle with recoil only slightly more than 243. But the higher BC's of the 6.5mm bullets compared to 270 bullets (6.8mm) mean it hits just as hard, or harder beyond about 200 yards. I see the 6.5 as more of a dual purpose big game hunting/target round whereas the 6mm CR is probably more of varmint hunting/target round.

Out to around 500-600 yards there isn't much difference between 6.5 or 308 (other than about 25% difference in recoil) as either a hunting or target round. Beyond 600 the 6.5 is better.

+1 to what Varminterror and taliv wrote.

It sounds like you are where I was a couple years ago, interested in trying out some longer range PRS style shooting, either, informally, in local matches, or eventually in PRS matches.

I like to shoot in our local ranges PRS style matches which used to max out at 850 yds, but now, as of this past month have been extended to 1,030 yds. I went with about the cheapest rig that puts me on a competitive footing for these matches, and that is an RPR in 6.5 with an SWFA 3-15 FFP mounted in Burris Xtreme rings. The total costs ran me a little under $1,800. You might be able to slip in a bit under that with a slightly cheaper rifle, or one of the fixed power SWFA scopes. I've shot my SWFA fixed power 12x out to 850 yds, and didn't find it a huge hindrance (given that it was only $299) at that range. Speaking of scopes, if you're using turrets and shooting long range, reliability is the most important factor, the SWFA line seem to be quite good in that regard for the price. Everything else worth shooting is a pretty sizable step up in price, but will have nicer glass and more features.

As for chambering, for your purposes, definitely skip over .308, .30-06, .270, .223, etc. and go straight to one of the 6 mm or 6.5 mm options. Everyone that shoots at our range matches is shooting some kind of 6 mm or 6.5 mm. I went with a .308 first, and while I like that rifle, a decent .308 load is going to have around 35% more drift at 600 yds than a decent Creedmoor load in a full value wind, and it only gets worse further out. I don't see any benefit to buying a less than competitive rifle, only to frustrate yourself and wind up buying another better rifle shortly afterwards. The 6.5 Creedmoor is the easy button right now due to market support, but, the various 6 mm's are very popular. A guy at my local range shot his RPR 6.5 barrel out with factory ammo, and re-barreled to 6 mm Creedmoor. With 110gr Sierras that thing is a laser. There are a few 6 mm Dashers at the range too, and while they shoot great, they sure don't move the steel much at 1k.

There actually is a guy that shoots a built up Remington in .270 in our matches, but its a higher end hunting rig that he uses for deer and elk, and I think he's mostly interested in staying sharp on that rifle for hunting season.

There are a bunch of RPRs, a few savages, some built Remingtons, and a sprinkling of Bergaras, Defiance, Mausingfields, etc. at our matches. I will echo what someone else said, its important that your rifle run well, I've seen lots of folks loose points on time-crunched stages fiddling with getting their rifle (usually a Remington with some kind of aftermarket bottom metal) to feed right.

I don't think you would go wrong starting with something like an RPR, a Savage Stealth (or some of their other chassis options) or Bergara HMR. I've seen the Savage and Bergara advertised under $900, there's no way you're going to be able to buy a cheaper rifle and build it up to something equivalent for less.

I'm not wrong handed, so I can't comment on that question, but I'd get a rifle that is most natural for me to manipulate.

just my $.02

taliv said:

i tried a 6 SLR back in 2012 for PRS matches. worst decision of my shooting career. here's a thread where i whine about it a lot, and link in it to another thread with the original build and pics https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ce-with-the-6mm-super-lr.714545/#post-8895081

varminterror's advice above is good.

there's a tactical class where people shoot 308 and 223. otherwise, no. don't be silly.

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Yours is the 1st negative review of the 6 SLR I've read. Did you figure out what the problem was??

Thanks,

Chuck

I'll have to pull the print - it's a reamer I picked up from another shooter, custom neck and throat PTG, meant for shooting necked down and turned Lapua Palma brass with the 115dtac's.

I've been looking for a chance at the SLR, at least in principle, because I have thousands on thousands of 243win brass, including a healthy supply of necked down palma small primer Lapua. Although, I've enjoyed the 6.5 creedmoor, and I might be more compelled to convert a couple of my 243 win and AI's to 6 creed and bail on the 243/308win case.

taliv said:

nope. sold it for parts and moved on. per that thread, i remain convinced it was the reamer

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Understood, hoping it was an isolated issue and not a design flaw.

Thanks,

Chuck

Varminterror said:

I'll have to pull the print - it's a reamer I picked up from another shooter, custom neck and throat PTG, meant for shooting necked down and turned Lapua Palma brass with the 115dtac's.

I've been looking for a chance at the SLR, at least in principle, because I have thousands on thousands of 243win brass, including a healthy supply of necked down palma small primer Lapua. Although, I've enjoyed the 6.5 creedmoor, and I might be more compelled to convert a couple of my 243 win and AI's to 6 creed and bail on the 243/308win case.

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I'm sort of in the same boat, a lot of .243 brass, looking for something with minimal case forming requirements. I like the idea of the longer neck, 30 degree shoulder and slightly less capacity.

I'm looking at the JGS 6mm Super LR/S-Bolt-Action to fit in an AICS magazine.

Chuck