Webley Bulldog Repo?

I would love to see S&W do a "Fitz" special in 45 colt

The main issue with the Bulldog as made by Webley was that it used a second trigger like say an H&R revolver. Pulling what appears to be the trigger did cock the hammer and rotate the cylinder, but releasing the hammer is actually done with a small spur behind the trigger that is depressed as one continues to pull the main trigger.

If you thumb cock for SA fire the main trigger does comeback as on more common US designs, then pulling it depresses that second itty bitty trigger as it were.

The guns being relatively small and relatively heavy in the DA pull department folks tended to stick as much finger through the guard as possible. This on occasion resulted in enough skin to get behind the big trigger to be pinched or stabbed by the itty bitty trip trigger.

As with Colts 1849 frame based revolvers these little beast sold well........especially to individual police officers that were SUPPOSED to be armed with only a whistle and short billy.

Interesting that we have gone from police forces that were to be armed mainly with the ability to give the Hew and Cry to call on good citizens and that whistle and billy to Armored and military armed "SWAT" teams and military minded beat cops as we have become "more civilized".

-kBob

I think the closest gun today would be the Charter Bulldog.

Swing said:

Quite right. And the currently produce Mark VII is a seven-shot, .357 Magnum.

View attachment 773065

Click to expand...

Not sure that makes the case for a production top break. As mentioned up thread that Mark VII is a one of a kind hand built piece and has a five figure price tag.

I think with a slight redesign and the use of modern materials and heat treatments a modernised version of the Webley Mark VI in 45 ACP could be done but I am not sure there is a large enough market/demand to support the development it would take to maker it work technically.

Swing said:

Quite right. And the currently produce Mark VII is a seven-shot, .357 Magnum.

View attachment 773065

Click to expand...

I wish other people would look at that picture closely, Swing, because looking at the chamber flutes and charge holes and cylinder length, it does not look like either a 7-shot or a 357 Magnum to me. It looks like a highly polished Mark VI with really nice grips. But like I say, I wish others would look, because I once missed seeing a cracked frame on an Erma 22.

Monac said:

I wish other people would look at that picture closely, Swing, because looking at the chamber flutes and charge holes and cylinder length, it does not look like either a 7-shot or a 357 Magnum to me. It looks like a highly polished Mark VI with really nice grips. But like I say, I wish others would look, because I once missed seeing a cracked frame on an Erma 22.

Click to expand...

Looks like a 6 shot, shorty cylinder to my untrained eye.

Larry

Thanks, Swing! Glad to see I was failing to see things again.

Swing said:

Sure, but Kaeto didn't say "production", he said "For those that say a Top Break is too weak for high pressure rounds.". It can be done; the Russian MP412 REX and the British Mark VII were/are both made in in .357 Magnum.

And there are current production top-break revolvers in lower pressure rounds like the, the NAA Ranger II (in .22 Magnum), the Indian IOF and Nirbheek (in .32 S&W Long) and the various Schofield repos (in .38 Special, .44/40, .45 LC, et al.).



You might enjoy this video. Cheers.





This picture is from the link I shared above.

View attachment 773161

Click to expand...

Well, derp.


Larry

The issue with top breaks and high pressure cartridges isn't that the gun will necessarily explode on the first round, but that it will eventually shoot loose. So far the examples to the contrary are pictures of an exotic Russian revolver that likely none of us have actually seen, much less owned and a tool room prototype of a Webley. It's possible that they may hold up to regular firing with 357 loads, but so far we have no track record as a basis for any conclusions.

We’ve established the Webley Bulldog isn’t a top-break, so let’s not veer the thread into further discussing top-breaks, eh?

Nice video,I didn't know they couldn't own handguns in the UK. Thanks for sharing it.

mcb said:

The Webley Bulldog is not a top break revolver. It's a solid frame double-action side-gate loading revolver.
View attachment 772643

Click to expand...

This gun is not technically a Bulldog! It is a Model 83, long frame (vs short) an improved model of the well known Metropolitan Police revolver, which is actually a descendant of the Royal Irish Constabulary(RIC) firearm design by Webley!

These are Bulldogs. No2s in 450, 442 & 380cf. Compared to the Model 83s below.

natman said:

This is the closest I can think of. The link is nearly two years old, I wonder if any have actually been produced?

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/a-new-british-made-handgun-the-return-of-the-webley-shot-show-2016/

Click to expand...

It's too bad they cant' be imported, but webley knock off's are being sold by the thousands in India every day. They mane the Mark III in .32 S&W.

Sarge7402 said:

It's too bad they cant' be imported, but webley knock off's are being sold by the thousands in India every day. They mane the Mark III in .32 S&W.

Click to expand...

I like the profile changes to the barrel and some of the frame changes. What is the lump on the back strap for and those grips are super ugly. The guy walking in front of him while loading is a bit unsettling and the shooting in the air also a bit unsettling.

They also make a weird copy of the Browning 1910. Funny thing is once you have the permit to purchase one it's the same as having a CCW. Course the cost is astronomical - think these run about 80,000 Rupees or about $1,300

And you can only buy a certain amount of ammo per year

mcb said:

I like the profile changes to the barrel and some of the frame changes. What is the lump on the back strap for and those grips are super ugly. The guy walking in front of him while loading is a bit unsettling and the shooting in the air also a bit unsettling.

Click to expand...

I think the lump on the backstrap is what the British call a "prawl". It is meant to keep the gun from rolling back in the hand under heavy recoil. Which a 32 Long revolver does not have in the least, but I guess it's a traditional Webley feature. (Guns like a Colt Single Action Army purposely lack a prawl, because having the gun roll back in the hand speeds re-cocking, as I understand it. This is not desired in a double action revolver.)

PS - I think the small silver rectangle just above the highest point of the grips is a push-through manual safety.

PPS - Looking at Sarge7402's photograph, I would not have guessed that the cylinder was long enough for the cartridges. There is no possibility of chambering that gun for 32 Magnum.

Sarge7402 said:

They also make a weird copy of the Browning 1910. Funny thing is once you have the permit to purchase one it's the same as having a CCW. Course the cost is astronomical - think these run about 80,000 Rupees or about $1,300

And you can only buy a certain amount of ammo per year

Click to expand...

I am not sure if their Browning copy (it is called the Ashani, IIRC) is striker fired like a Browning 1910 or hammer fired like a Browning 1903. The recoil spring arrangement is certainly 1910-style.

Cooldill said:

The weapon is not designed for such pressures. .455 Webley is quite a bit lower pressure.

Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply. Yes I know, but I reload .45 ACP and would ensure pressures are on the low end.

Love to read about Bulldog pistols. I own six of them...not one a P. Webley model.
For those interested, let me recommend two books: W.C. Dowell’s definitive history of the Webley...”The Webley Story” and George Layman’s “The British Bulldog: the forgotten gun that really won the West”.

vba said:

Sorry for the late reply. Yes I know, but I reload .45 ACP and would ensure pressures are on the low end.

Click to expand...

Average pressure for the .455 Webley round is 13200psi.
For the .45ACP it is 21000.
How to measure.