Franklin Armory Does It Again!

I don't pull my triggers, I slap them, does that mean I can have a SBR?

beeenbag said:

I don't pull my triggers, I slap them, does that mean I can have a SBR?

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The ATF will have to consult it's regulatory magic 8-ball to get you a thorough and well reasoned answer, but "Don't count on it" seems like a safe bet.

Whoever said the barrel was right. It's not quite a smoothbore though.

Well, that's a new twist, or lack of one. The guy took about 5 minutes to say something he could have said in 30 seconds. He did get it right however, it isn't an SBR. It isn't even a rifle.

50 yrd accuracy? You can do that with the right pistol. I'll pass.

The AR market has hit a wall.

I respect the innovation, but pass.

Browning said:

Whoever said the barrel was right. It's not quite a smoothbore though.

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There is one problem with that. You cannot stabilize a long projectile with straight rifling. Straight rifling works with round balls the way he describes, long cylinders have different aerodynamic characteristics than spheres (aka the baseball). And un-stabilized long projectile will tumble almost immediately, not in 50 yards, not even 50 feet.

It could be that the patent deals with stabilizing a long object without spinning it, or giving it fins....

lysanderxiii said:

There is one problem with that. You cannot stabilize a long projectile with straight rifling. Straight rifling works with round balls the way he describes, long cylinders have different aerodynamic characteristics than spheres (aka the baseball). And un-stabilized long projectile will tumble almost immediately, not in 50 yards, not even 50 feet.

It could be that the patent deals with stabilizing a long object without spinning it, or giving it fins....

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I agree. Also, the video really isn't clear if he has inside info or is just posting his own thoughts. The video was posted on the 19th, so I'm doubtful.

Caliper_Mi said:

I agree. Also, the video really isn't clear if he has inside info or is just posting his own thoughts. The video was posted on the 19th, so I'm doubtful.

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In the comments he claims he "knows" and is not theorizing. But I guess we'll see

The video on Outdoor Hub of the ... firearm... firing definitely shows rounds fired on both pull and release of the trigger, like their normal binary trigger. Also, a writer on TTAG said he snuck a peek down the bore and didn't see any apparent rifling. At this point, I'm going to bet that it is an oval bore kind of similar to the firearms that fire the new Lancaster cartridge.

Not technically rifled, not a rifle, but also doesn't fire any kind of shotgun ammo and therefore not a shotgun...

They are announcing what the deal is tomorrow morning.

Whoever said straight lands and grooves was right.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/23/shot-2018-secret-franklin-armorys-reformation/

Basically a $2k semi-auto musket with similar accuracy.... I think I'll take a pistol with an arm brace instead.

Not what I was expecting.

Meh... maybe if someone makes barrels separately...

I think I could be interested. The accuracy he is describing isn't great; but it isn't terrible either. I would want to see some real world reports.

However, the price is a bit of a show stopper. If I could get a barrel alone, or an upper at a price competitive to other uppers, I would be willing to try it. At the list price, no way.

I can’t yawn hard enough.

The speculation was fun, the payoff not so much.

4 inch groups at 100 yards from an 11" musket sounds very optimistic.

Gtscotty said:

Basically a $2k semi-auto musket with similar accuracy.... I think I'll take a pistol with an arm brace instead.

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What a joke! You can build an SBR, pay the $200 tax stamp and still be a long way under the ridiculous asking price for this FA turd. The talk of special ammunition for this paper weight is beyond ridiculous.

MCMXI said:

What a joke! You can build an SBR, pay the $200 tax stamp and still be a long way under the ridiculous asking price for this FA turd. The talk of special ammunition for this paper weight is beyond ridiculous.

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First, I agree that it is grossly overpriced. That being said, the problem with the SBR isn't the tax. The problem is frequent movement between states. The documentation requirements create a situation where I will eventually do something wrong and find that I have committed a felony.

I am more likely to go the pistol brace route. It is inelegant and ugly; but it doesn't require paperwork to be filed on a constant basis.

The problem is frequent movement between states.

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Frequent movement between states? I wonder how many people need or want to take SBRs across state lines with any sort of regularity? If I were heading to another state and felt that I needed to bring along an AR I'd swap out the upper for something 16" plus. But as you say, a pistol brace negates all of this.

People complain about the price, but someone has to pay for the tooling.

MCMXI said:

Frequent movement between states? I wonder how many people need or want to take SBRs across state lines with any sort of regularity? If I were heading to another state and felt that I needed to bring along an AR I'd swap out the upper for something 16" plus. But as you say, a pistol brace negates all of this.

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Need is a hard word. All we "need" is a tarp and bowl.

I realize my case is unusual. However, that is what interests me in unusual solutions. I work in Kansas and Live in Utah. I stay at my apartment in Kansas, sometimes for months. Then I return to my home in Utah for months. Of course, I also pass through several states along the way.

In the summer I also continue on to California for a few weeks to visit friends and my parents. Needless to say, I leave anything questionable in my safe in Utah before continuing on to California.

What can this thing do that can’t be accomplished with a 4.5” longer barrel? Or a $300 pump shotgun for that matter?

Hard pass. Very hard pass.

Hasaf said:

I realize my case is unusual.

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Yeah, I don't think you're the typical Title II firearms owner.

Too bad we couldn't A) get HPA or SHARE passed and B) add SBR to either bill, because C), this thing is dumb. Nifty toy for those who have money or specialized travel needs, but for me here in AZ, nothing but a hugely expensive and likely inaccurate range toy.

It is what it is. It's death by a thousand cuts.

What the gun companies and the people who own them are doing is slicing away at the NFA a tiny bit at a time using technology as a weapon.

No burst or full auto fire (without waiting up to a year after doing a bunch of paperwork and paying $20,000)? Okay we'll just create a trigger that still complies with your law, but that fires two rds (on both squeeze and release).

No short barreled rifles (without filling out all kinds of forms, informing local law enforcement, waiting months on end and paying $200 for the privilege or perhaps not at all if the shooter lives in California, NY, Connecticut etc)? Okay, we'll just make braces that essentially do the same thing and put them on extremely large ungainly 'pistols' or invent a different kind of rifling to got with a short barreled rifle to get around it.

No AOW's without a bunch of hassle? We'll use your own legal interpretations against you and create a 'pistol' that fires shot shells.

Can't cross state lines with an SBR for a match without requesting and waiting for the ATF's permission? Fine, we'll all just use braced 'pistols'.

So maybe I'm not thrilled with a smoothbore short barreled AR, but they get some credit from me for their thinking and effort and I'll buy some of their other guns n gear. :Shrug