Franklin Armory Does It Again!

[Mauser lover]

"The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each ..."

BUT!!!!

It doesn't use a shotgun shell?

 

[Mosin Bubba]

I'd personally stay away from this one. Whatever loophole these guys found, it can't be very big, and I doubt it would be hard for the ATF to close it.

 

[Browning]

I'd personally stay away from this one. Whatever loophole these guys found, it can't be very big, and I doubt it would be hard for the ATF to close it.

In such a case wouldn't the ATF be almost forced to say that the owners could register that particular gun or item without payment of the $200 tax? They did something similar with the Street Sweeper and Striker shotguns.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-1.html

6 U.S.C. 5845(f)(2): DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE (Nonsporting shotgun having a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter)

The registration period for the USAS-12, Striker-12, and Streetsweeper shotguns will close on May 1, 2001.

ATF Ruling 2001-1

Pursuant to ATF Rulings 94-1 (ATF Q.B. 1994-1, 22) and 94-2 (ATF Q.B. 1994-1, 24), the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) classified the USAS-12, Striker 12, and Streetsweeper shotguns as destructive devices under the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53. The NFA requires that certain "firearms" be registered and imposes taxes on their making and transfer. The term "firearm" is defined in section 5845 to include "destructive devices." The term "destructive device" is defined in section 5845(f)(2) as follows:

[T]he term 'destructive device' means . . . (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; . . .

The USAS-12, Striker 12, and Streetsweeper shotguns were classified as destructive devices pursuant to section 5845(f) because they are shotguns with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter which are not generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.

Pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7805(b), ATF. Ruls. 94-1 and 94-2 were issued prospectively with respect to the making, transfer, and special (occupational) taxes imposed by the NFA. Thus, although the classification of the three shotguns as NFA weapons was retroactive, the prospective application of the tax provisions allowed registration without payment of tax.

ATF has contacted all purchasers of record of the shotguns to advise them of the classification of the weapons as destructive devices and that the weapons must be registered. ATF has registered approximately 8,200 of these weapons to date.

Held, the registration period for the USAS-12, Striker-12, and Streetsweeper shotguns will close on May 1, 2001. No further registrations will be accepted after that date. Persons in possession of unregistered NFA firearms are subject to all applicable penalties under 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53.

Date signed: February 2, 2001

 

[Speedo66]

No interest. However, I would be interested in a work around that says silencers aren’t really silencers and require no stamp.

 

[lysanderxiii]

"The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each ..."

BUT!!!!

It doesn't use a shotgun shell?

Read Title 18:

(5)
The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

No mention of a shot shell....

 

[SC45-70]

It does not have a rifled barrel over 16 inches so it's not a rifle
It does not have a smooth bored barrel over 18 inches so it's not a shot gun.
It is not made or remade from a rifle, hand gun or shotgun so it is not NFA.
It's over 26 inches so it's not a hand gun.

The only option left is it's an other (just like an unassembled newly made AR receiver).

Just my thoughts

SC45-70

 

[someguy2800]

It does not have a rifled barrel over 16 inches so it's not a rifle
It does not have a smooth bored barrel over 18 inches so it's not a shot gun.
It is not made or remade from a rifle, hand gun or shotgun so it is not NFA.
It's over 26 inches so it's not a hand gun.

The only option left is it's an other (just like an unassembled newly made AR receiver).

Just my thoughts

SC45-70

They have a definition for a short barreled rifle and short barreled shotgun as well.

 

[lysanderxiii]

It does not have a rifled barrel over 16 inches so it's not a rifle
It does not have a smooth bored barrel over 18 inches so it's not a shot gun.
It is not made or remade from a rifle, hand gun or shotgun so it is not NFA.
It's over 26 inches so it's not a hand gun.

The only option left is it's an other (just like an unassembled newly made AR receiver).

Just my thoughts

SC45-70

We do not "know" this.....we are not privy to the manufacturing sequence.

It could be "remade" from a rifle.

 

[Jackal]

We already have non NFA, non SBR's... They are called pistol with a brace. There is no functional difference between a good modern brace and a stock, in actual use.

 

[badkarmamib]

We already have non NFA, non SBR's... They are called pistol with a brace. There is no functional difference between a good modern brace and a stock, in actual use.

Shhhhh!!! ATF forgot that! Don't remind them!

 

[SC45-70]

They have a definition for a short barreled rifle and short barreled shotgun as well.

But there is no definition for a SHORT BARRELED OTHER!

SC45-70

 

[MistWolf]

I'd personally stay away from this one. Whatever loophole these guys found, it can't be very big, and I doubt it would be hard for the ATF to close it.

The BATF has already approved it.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The apparent real buttstock is what makes it different. It wouldn't be considered a firearm like a Shockwave because of that actual buttstock. Either way you look at it, it's either a SBR or SBS yet somehow it isn't.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The BATF has already approved it.

Approved what?

We don't know what it is because they haven't published any specs.

It's some kind of marketing ploy.

You don't end run the ATF. They make up the rules as they go. Here today gone tomorrow.

 

[kozak6]

Rifles are defined as firing a single projectile per single trigger pull.

So, it's possible that the binary trigger sidesteps that part of the definition. It's also possible that it would require two trigger pulls to fire once, although that would be suboptimal.

 

[WestKentucky]

BATF has defined a rifle essentially as a firearm firing a single projectile from a barrel designed to impart spin onto the projectile to stabilize it. Jumping over to paintball thought here...what if a tool steel button was ran through the barrel creating straight lands and grooves to not impart any spin whatsoever. I have somewhere in the garage a “straight rifled” barrel on a spyder pb marker which is actually a good shooter as long as the barrel is clean and dry. On a traditional rifle bullet it seems it would not do so well, but stick a pistol round in it where you are looking at short fat rounds and tumble is not as detrimental, and shouldn’t really start happening until some ground has been covered.

*You don’t have spin stabilization...not a rifle.
*It’s not smoothbore nor multi projectile...not shotgun
*Since it’s not ^^^ neither sbr or sbs rules apply. Seems to me it would be an Other.

Still not interested in product, just the loophole exploitation.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

In such a case wouldn't the ATF be almost forced to say that the owners could register that particular gun or item without payment of the $200 tax? They did something similar with the Street Sweeper and Striker shotguns.

I'd imagine something like that would be needed to avoid seizure without compensation or what not, but the ATF plays by its own set of rules.

The BATF has already approved it.

And they could change their minds next week and say that owning one is a felony - kind of like their on-again-off-again approach with pistol braces. Then a new guy could come in and declare them legal again a month after that.

Too much of a headache for me.

 

[MistWolf]

After all the discussions about rifle twists and its affect on precision, people are willing to seriously entertain the idea that a smooth bore will somehow stabilize rifle bullets at any range??

More critical thinking- If the Binary Trigger changed the category of a semi automatic self loading weapon, what would that category be? Shotgun? Pistol? Rifle? Firearm? No. Machinegun. But the BATF said the Binary Trigger only fires one round per trigger action and therefore does not change a semi-auto into a full-auto or into any other category of firearm.

Look up the letter from the BATF to Franklin Armory concerning the XO-26 and pay close attention to the comments OAL and installing a vertical fore grip on a pistol without creating an AOW.

 

[MAKster]

I was just reading the law on SBR, SBS, AOW ect... and even if it is smoothbore I don't see how this would be exempt. It can't be a an AOW because its not concealable and has a buttstock. The mossberg shockwave is a "pistol grip firearm" because its over 26" and no buttstock. If its smoothbore or oblong bore or whatever it should be a SBS because of the buttstock. I'm confused.

Based on the laws and the hints that Franklin Armory has given (not a rifle, not a shotgun, uses standard stock, uses standard trigger) I think it will most likely have a barrel that is not rifled and also not smooth bore. It will be a new type of barrel that gives the bullet spin without being rifled. That way it isn't a SBR or SBS. But I have my doubts the ATF will allow such a design. While there is no official definition of rifling, I suspect ATF will say it has to be either rifled or smooth bore and there is no third way. If a characteristic of the barrel imparts spin by any means then it is considered rifled.

 

[someguy2800]

You guys are all wrong. Its an air rifle. There is one of those little co2 cartridges in the grip.

 

[wally]

Ooohhh... Ahhhh... Watching this thread...

What about a twisted oblong bore. I think there was a bolt action "rifle?" back at the beginning of the 20th century that used that.

I believe its called elliptical rifling, I think the CZ82 9mm Makarov used it -- bores looked "shot out" smooth unless you knew about this, so some great guns were sold at ridiculously low prices because of this when they first came in.

There is no functional difference between a good modern brace and a stock, in actual use.

Not completely true, its sorta like there is no financial difference between avoiding taxes and evading taxes unless you get caught

 

[Jim Watson]

We need Frank and Spats to comment.
I, too, am concerned that just because a manufacturer can parse the language and get a bureaucrat to OK their definitions, does not mean that the next bureaucrat can't reverse the whole thing. A dictionary definition and a Quacks like a Duck interpretation will put these toys right out the window.

 

[CapnMac]

I'm almost certain that this is built as an AR pistol, with an "arm brace" stock.

 

[MAKster]

I'm almost certain that this is built as an AR pistol, with an "arm brace" stock.

The Franklin Armory ad shows the firearm with what they identify as a Magpul SL stock. So no, it is not a pistol with a brace.

 

[DeanV]

Does it mean that as long as the overall length full extended is over 26”, the barrel can be under 16” then and it is an “other” firearm? It is kind of like how a pistol braced AR with a shorter barrel that measures over 26” can have a forward mounted pistol grip and is now an “other” firearm. Not an sbr. Not a rifle. Not a pistol. I think this falls into that camp now. I have no idea if this is true, just thinking out loud.