Hypothetical handgun

Flechette · Feb 5, 2018

MachIVshooter said:
Like who? I haven't heard of a one, and there was no indication of such interest at shot. Seems like wild speculation to me. With the Rhino's sales, I don't think we'll see a copycat.

As for semi-autos, there's a limiting factor you just can't get around; the slide has to come back. I suppose if one opted for the awkward, clunky, unreliable toggle mechanism of Luger or Borchardt type designs, but the list of drawbacks would be a mile long, far outstripping any gains made with the "extra low bore axis"

Have you ever fired a gun that had a brake with rearward angled ports? I'm guessing not, since you think it's a good idea.

Of course, but they do not work.

The gas has very little time in which to be directed back for any thrust as the bullet is screaming by.

If you note, I said that such an active recoil system would use nozzles, which excellerate the flow and produce more thrust, and fed by a gas tube right after the chamber giving it a much longer time in which to work.

Ports are simply holes.

Monac · Feb 5, 2018

I must be misunderstanding Flechette's post. Muzzle brakes obviously work, because pretty much every artillery piece in the world has them. I guess I should be thinking of those top-ports that were popular for a while, like Magna-ports - I can believe those are not of much value.

Jim K · Feb 5, 2018

"As for semi-autos, there's a limiting factor you just can't get around; the slide has to come back."
Well, no. The breechblock can be fixed and the slide move forward to extract and eject, then back to reload. It was called the Schwarzlose and it was made (I believe) just to show that it could be done; there was no advantage other than in the mind of the inventor.

Jim

C0untZer0 · Feb 5, 2018

Rodentman said:
If anyone else makes such a pistol I hope they do a better job than Rhino. Mine's been back for warranty twice for poor lockup, off-center and weak strikes, FTF's. I still take it to the range occasionally but I don't consider it a well made piece especially at its price.

Thanks.

I've heard enough bad about the Rhino to cross it off my list.

pauli · Feb 5, 2018

Jim K said:
"As for semi-autos, there's a limiting factor you just can't get around; the slide has to come back."
Well, no. The breechblock can be fixed and the slide move forward to extract and eject, then back to reload. It was called the Schwarzlose and it was made (I believe) just to show that it could be done; there was no advantage other than in the mind of the inventor.

Jim

http://i.imgur.com/yf3iU2X.gif

not having much luck inlining that gif. hmm.

Wisco · Feb 5, 2018

pauli said:
http://i.imgur.com/yf3iU2X.gif

not having much luck inlining that gif. hmm.

Good god, that weirds me out. I mean really, that’s the oddest thing I’ve seen in a long time.

zaitcev · Feb 5, 2018

CapnMac said:
That is unless you wanted to explore putting the entire action ahead of the hand--a sort of "D" style grip, as it were. But, that would introduce all sorts of odd ergodynamics.

Ergos would be fine. Russians have brought a pistol like that to Olympics once, and won. It was banned immediately. I would be more concerned about states like California that prohibit magazines not in the grip (with few limited exceptions for historic pistols like Mauser C96).

zaitcev · Feb 5, 2018

Wisco said:
Good god, that weirds me out. I mean really, that’s the oddest thing I’ve seen in a long time.

The GIF is from Ian McCollum's video. Here's the slow-mo where the GIF is taken, with Ian's voice narration:

Here's his usual Forgotten Weapons video about the same gun:

rskent · Feb 6, 2018

Jim K said:
"As for semi-autos, there's a limiting factor you just can't get around; the slide has to come back."
Well, no. The breechblock can be fixed and the slide move forward to extract and eject, then back to reload. It was called the Schwarzlose and it was made (I believe) just to show that it could be done; there was no advantage other than in the mind of the inventor.

Ok, I stand corrected. Do you think this design is anything more than a historical footnote?

ATLDave · Feb 6, 2018

Flechette said:
Of course, but they do not work.

The gas has very little time in which to be directed back for any thrust as the bullet is screaming by.

If you note, I said that such an active recoil system would use nozzles, which excellerate the flow and produce more thrust, and fed by a gas tube right after the chamber giving it a much longer time in which to work.

Ports are simply holes.

Have you ever seen a USPSA Open-division gun? Those use a combination of ports and compensator baffles (basically muzzle brakes) and they are extremely effective at flattening recoil. Very, very, very effective.

zaitcev · Feb 6, 2018

Taylor Jarrell said:
With so many revolver companies considering branching into revolvers that fire from bottom of the cylinder like the Rhino due to it's affect on felt recoil, do you think the same could be done with a semi auto? Think semi auto pistol frame with barrel on the bottom, recoil spring on top, and a bottom or lower side ejector.

A magazine-fed gun employing a low barrel location does in fact exist, in current production even. Please see the picture (not an airsoft, but a real, factory-produced gun):

Note how much barrel length it gives up by comparison with a conventional semi-auto pistol, all in order to control the recoil and the muzzle raise.

MachIVshooter · Feb 6, 2018

Flechette said:
Of course, but they do not work.

The gas has very little time in which to be directed back for any thrust as the bullet is screaming by.

They certainly do work. They also direct gas right back in your face. Most unpleasant. I won't put any rearward angle on top ports, and not more than 20° on sides.

CapnMac · Feb 7, 2018

zaitcev said:
A magazine-fed gun employing a low barrel location does in fact exist, in current production even. Please see the picture (not an airsoft, but a real, factory-produced gun):

Note how much barrel length it gives up by comparison with a conventional semi-auto pistol, all in order to control the recoil and the muzzle raise.

That is the sort of "D" shape I was speaking of. Where you need to get most of the "guts," the working parts out in front of the hand, lest they run into or over the hand.

Now, a person could design something a bit like an inverted T, and have the back leg loop back over the wrist (like a wrist rocket--sorta). Recoil would tend to rotate down, due to how the wrist works, which could negate some of the "up" from firing. However, the sight line for such a thing would be, to use a word, goofy.

Hypothetical handgun

Flechette

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Monac

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Jim K

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C0untZer0

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pauli

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Wisco

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zaitcev

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zaitcev

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rskent

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ATLDave

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zaitcev

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MachIVshooter

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CapnMac

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