If you had to do it all over again

I started watching these videos last night and really learned a lot. This morning I discovered all my old crappy Dillon gear was listed on Craigslist and I have a huge shipment of Hornday gear coming my way.

Be careful... you might learn something!

farm23 said:

What accent and there are more to watch. Go Edgar Brothers, actually it is well done.

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Evidently the videos were deemed inappropriate because someone pulled my post??? Too bad, the hostess was beautiful and bright but the videos actually were quite informative and very well done! I wonder if the party that pulled my post actually watched them? Seems a bit revers sexist to ban the videos for having an attractive host? I personally did not find the videos the least bit raunchy... or I would not have posted a link. I guess other must disagree?

If starting over I would just build up more stuff before somebody else put a stranglehold on my bank account. I have traded and sold stuff a lot just to try new/different things. I liked the RCBS JR press as much as I like my lee Classic cast, and it looks like I’m going to be just as happy with my LEe Classic Turret. RCBS rifle dies are my preference, but Lee works. Lee pistol dies are my preference.

The only thing I really regret in all of my reloading escapades is buying things in orange boxes. Lyman stuff is just not up to my standards. The depriming system is weak, fragile, and not well supported, the trickler has too shallow of an angle and takes forever, and the t mag press I had didn’t lock into position worth a flip.

Then there’s the things I regret not doing sooner....for 10 years I primed on press because I knew no different, then I got a lee hand primer. Never again will I prime on press unless I’m using some form of auto gizmo on my Turret. Sitting in the recliner priming cases during commercials is the way to go. I also should have bought more MTM boxes early on, and Avery shipping labels to ID my stuff better. I used and eventually abandoned and gave away a lee beam scale which is a useful but aggravating tool, but electronic scales are cheap, easy, and if you have multiple check weights they can be as reliable as anything. Last but not least is dedicating space. I have reloaded in a bedroom, a kitchen table, a tiny shed, and finally in a garage where I could dedicate some space and properly organize stuff. A purpose built bench is so much nicer than improvised BS benches, and can be done cheap enough if you are willing to put some effort into making it how you want it.

A Classic thread on a Classic tool September 2016: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lee-classic-turret-press-a-love-sonnet.810476/

Do it all over as a new reloader? A Lee turret classic, a cheap electronic scale, Lee dies and Lee powder drop for each die set. ***And only ammo boxes that have hinge lids!***
Lee would.also be my recommendation for anybody with lots of calibers. It is fast enough and easy to do a caliber swap. Cheap to change calibers too.


Do it all over now as an experienced loader? A dillon 550 with a lee powder drop for every caliber. And fewer calibers. And only 1 sized primer.

greyling22 said:

Do it all over as a new reloader?***And only ammo boxes that have hinge lids!***

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Darned right. I have way too many that are in two pieces.

Since OP mentioned loading mostly 44 special and 357, as a beginner I would consider a Lee turret press, the Lee 3 die set and a Hornady Powder Check die. Tall cases like 44 special are difficult to check for a double powder charge, which is the easiest and most dangerous mistake for a new reloader. The auto index feature will also make a double powder charge less likely.

Lots of good information in the post by @Paladin7 .

For the magnum calibers (44 and 357) Lee has the regular FCD, and then they have the collet style crimper. (They won't work on 44spl or 38spl). I highly recommend the collet crimper. As a bonus, the collet crimpers do not have the carbide rings in them. The collet crimper also does not depend as much on all the cases being trimmed to the same length.

Some people despise the LEE FCD, others love them. Generally, I like them, but the 44 caliber FCD has a carbide ring that is too small and swages some of the bullets, so I don't use it. Some of my bullets are .431" so that is part of the problem, and if you want to use cast bullets, this will likely be a problem. And unless the bullet has an actual crimp groove and not just a cannelure, I much prefer crimping in a separate step.

Bones741 said:

Would you recommend the charge master AND a good scale?

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I like having two scales - and a set of check weights or at least a couple of reference weights as @someguy2800 mentioned. (I write the weight of my scale pans on the bottom, and use that as a sanity check sometimes). The second scale could be another digital, or a balance beam. Counting my Chargemaster, I have three digital scales and a nice balance beam - I hardly use the balance beam anymore. The tare feature on digitals make them much more handy for the way I work, but that is just me.

MikeInOr said:

A buddy of mine at work started with a Dillon 550 and he never had any issues with his first press being a progressive. He sold the Dillon 550 to our boss (also his first press) and bought a Dillon 650 after he tried my 650. Neither my coworker or boss had any trouble starting with a progressive.
<snip>
If you feel more comfortable starting with a single stage or turret press there is certainly nothing wrong with starting there!

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I, too, started with a Dillon 550. I am mechanically inclined and definitely an engineering type, so it was relatively easy for me to get setup and started with the 550. I also had a mentor that used a 550, so that helped. But I eventually ended up with a couple of single stage presses and then the LCT, and I find myself using the LCT more than the 550. I decap all my brass on the LCT using a universal decapping die, and one of the reasons I picked the LCT was because of the way it handles spent primers - they fall through the ram and out of the bottom, keeping the primer residue and range dirt from gumming up the ram. And by not doing the decapping on my 550, it stays MUCH cleaner as a result. Most people I know with a progressive press also have a turret or single-stage press that they use for utility purposes, such as decapping or bullet pulling with a collet puller, so why not start there and then decide if a progressive if necessary. You will not have wasted any time or money.

Bones741 said:

So for the 44 special you would skip using the FCD all together and just use the bullet seating die to perform the crimp?little confused the whole process is new

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You can seat and crimp with the seating die, in one operation. But, for me, whether or not I do it depends on the bullet I am using. If it has a crimp groove, then you can crimp and seat at the same time (the seating die also roll-crimps the case) as the case mouth is simply rolling into the groove. If the bullet does not have a crimp groove, then the case will be crimping into the bullet as the bullet is still being pushed into the case. Sometimes this can cause problems, such as buckled cases. It can be done, but setup is a little more cumbersome. Having all the cases trimmed to the same length becomes very important in this instance.

The seating die body can be adjusted up or down to adjust the amount of crimp - or no crimp at all. Then the seating stem can be screwed in or out to adjust the seating depth. If you raise the seating stem or remove it altogether, then the die will only crimp. Some people may buy a second seating die, remove the stem, and use it to crimp only. I've heard that the carbide ring in the FCD can be knocked out (although I have never tried that myself) so that may be an option.

As others have already recommended I would go straight the LCT press if revolver and rifle are your first few years of reloading goal. If it were pistol then a progressive would be nice. The determining factor is volume of ammo planning to load. My first 15 years I loaded on a single stage but I was only loading 50-100 rds per session about once every couple of months for a few cartridges. Eventually I moved up to the LCT and it is really nice to have a dozen or so turrets all set up for different cartridges, plus a couple extras for Hornady bullet puller, Lee universal decapper, and some extra dies for special prepping sequences.

The thing about progressives is from what I have seen of friends' setups is that it is not real simple to change over to another cartridge. For instance, the Hornandy LNL requires removing the shell plate and such to get down to changing from a large primer punch to a small primer punch. Most guys I know with a progressive either load a ton of a caliber and then switch over and load a ton of another, or they have multiple progressive presses set up for each oft used cartridge and a single stage or turret for the less used ones. They are mainly loading a fixed recipe for each cartridge, not doing much load work up. Same bullet, powder, charge weight and just crank them out. That is perfect for competition or someone who likes to shoot 95% and handload 5%.

The turret press is much better if you want to explore a lot and try various bullet/powder combinations and switch between cartridges often. It literally takes maybe 20 seconds to switch from 9mm to .30-06. The downside is you still need to pull the press handle 3-4 times to make a cartridge. It works great for me on rifle and revolver, but does get a bit tiresome on the 9mm and .40 loading up 300-400 rds.

I have used an RCBS Uniflow measure for decades and in the past ten years tried the Lee PPM and Auto Disk. The PPM leaks all the time with every powder and I gave up on it and went back to the Uniflow for rifle loading (it is to heavy for the turret so I have to remove the shell from the press, charge and put back on the press). The LAD is good but the steps between the disks are too large for my liking, and it is only good enough for handguns even with the disk doubler (just barely .223). I recently bought the Lee Auto Drum and it is fantastic, works perfectly on the LCT. I think this will be my primary measure going forward and I might buy the Deluxe PPM since it handles the stick powders better then the Uniflow.

I have a RCBS 10-10 balance beam scale that has served me well for over 30 years. I also use a cheap Frankford Arsenal electronic scale to check bullet and case weights, but never for weighing powder as it fluctuates too much (+/-.3 gr). Get either a good balance beam scale or electronic one like the ChargeMaster Lite.

Revolver cases need little prepping, so keep it simple. I now wet tumble with stainless steel pins, but I got along for 20 years with a Midway vibratory tumbler and corn cob media. The Berry's tumbler has a better motor and the Dillon tumbler is a beast (I have the large one and that thing is robust). But my cheap one did last 20 years of hard use.

I like my Cabela's electronic calipers because they easily switch between inches and millimeters. Very handy not just for reloading but lots of mechanical and home repair tasks. Used an RCBS dial caliper before that but was limited to only inches.

Starting out I would buy a large quantity of a fairly standard bullet such as a coated lead, plated or jacketed to get the cost savings of buying in 500-2,000 ct. A mid-range powder like Unique can give you very light target loads up to fairly stout loads in the .44 Special. I would work up a load for that and shoot those a bunch before branching out to other powders and bullets. You save the most when you buy in quantity: 1,000 bullets, 4# or 8# powder, 1,000-5,000 primers. I like CCI and Winchester primers but any of them are fine for .44 Special, get whatever is readily available in quantity locally.

You don't need a press mounted bullet puller for handgun cartridges, as the bullet has enough mass the inertia pullers work fine. My RCBS puller has been banged thousands of times (sadly true) over those 30 years and is still in perfect condition. You don't need a trimmer, debur/chamfer tool, or pocket swager. You might want to get a pocket uniformer to get an even seating of primers, but I only do that for rifle. Handgun accuracy is not nearly as refined as rifle. I like the K&N uniformer because it has a stem designed for cordless drill/drivers.

And yeah, the hinged reloading ammo boxes are very nice. I label everything (ammo cans, ammo boxes, ziplock ammo baggies, which powder is in the measure, etc.) with blue or green painters tape and a Sharpie. Stays on well enough, easy to mark, and easy to peel off for the next batch and new info.

Whatever you do, do not drink, watch TV, Facebook, read a book, or other distractions other than music while reloading. It is so darn easy to miss something and it only takes ONE mistake potentially to ruin a good gun or your body. Pay attention to what you are doing and enjoy the process.

Bones741 said:

Ok thanks. So it would be best to seat separately , skip the FCD and use a collet type instead? Again I feel dumb.

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Not dumb. What I know about reloading I have learned over several years. I have figured a few things out on my own in the process. I'm just glad to pass on what knowledge I have.

Unfortunately, Lee does not make a collet style crimper for 44 special, only 44 mag. The way the FCD is designed, it will work for either length case, but the collet crimp die will only work for one length case - 44mag.

Options:

Depends some on the bullet you will use. If the bullet has a crimp grove then you can simply seat and crimp in one operation. This would be the easiest and quickest method.

If the bullet size is such that the FCD does not swage the bullet, then you can use the FCD as is.

If the bullet is large enough to be swaged by the crimp ring, you can either knock the ring out, or get another seater die and back the seating stem out so it will only crimp. Hornady makes a cowboy bullet seater for 44special that is good for lead bullets, and that might be a good option - use it as the seater, and use the Lee seating die just for crimping.

Is your Blackhawk 44special only, or is it 44mag? If the latter, you can load 44mag cases with 44special loads.

Bones741 wrote:
what would you recommend for beginners? Are there things you'd avoid? I don't think I'd need a progressive press,but maybe im wrong.

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I would start (as I did) on a single-stage press and learn the fundamentals. Most people who start loading seem to find reasons to shoot more, so don't discount that a progressive press may be in your future sometime. Even if you graduate to a progressive in the future, you will still find plenty of uses for your original single-stage press; particularly when you only want to make a few rounds and the progressive isn't set up for that caliber.

It takes me seven to ten seconds to change a die on my single-stage press so the time savings of using quick-change bushings or turret presses are illusory.

I started with RCBS equipment and none of it has ever disappointed me. I've been disappointed by a few pieces of Lee equipment but generally find it to be a good value. I have limited experience with Hornady and Forster equipment and so don't feel I can express a judgement. My experiences with Lyman have been very unsatisfactory.

NWPilgrim said:

As others have already recommended I would go straight the LCT press if revolver and rifle are your first few years of reloading goal. If it were pistol then a progressive would be nice. The determining factor is volume of ammo planning to load. My first 15 years I loaded on a single stage but I was only loading 50-100 rds per session about once every couple of months for a few cartridges. Eventually I moved up to the LCT and it is really nice to have a dozen or so turrets all set up for different cartridges, plus a couple extras for Hornady bullet puller, Lee universal decapper, and some extra dies for special prepping sequences.

The thing about progressives is from what I have seen of friends' setups is that it is not real simple to change over to another cartridge. For instance, the Hornandy LNL requires removing the shell plate and such to get down to changing from a large primer punch to a small primer punch. Most guys I know with a progressive either load a ton of a caliber and then switch over and load a ton of another, or they have multiple progressive presses set up for each oft used cartridge and a single stage or turret for the less used ones. They are mainly loading a fixed recipe for each cartridge, not doing much load work up. Same bullet, powder, charge weight and just crank them out. That is perfect for competition or someone who likes to shoot 95% and handload 5%.

The turret press is much better if you want to explore a lot and try various bullet/powder combinations and switch between cartridges often. It literally takes maybe 20 seconds to switch from 9mm to .30-06. The downside is you still need to pull the press handle 3-4 times to make a cartridge. It works great for me on rifle and revolver, but does get a bit tiresome on the 9mm and .40 loading up 300-400 rds.

I have used an RCBS Uniflow measure for decades and in the past ten years tried the Lee PPM and Auto Disk. The PPM leaks all the time with every powder and I gave up on it and went back to the Uniflow for rifle loading (it is to heavy for the turret so I have to remove the shell from the press, charge and put back on the press). The LAD is good but the steps between the disks are too large for my liking, and it is only good enough for handguns even with the disk doubler (just barely .223). I recently bought the Lee Auto Drum and it is fantastic, works perfectly on the LCT. I think this will be my primary measure going forward and I might buy the Deluxe PPM since it handles the stick powders better then the Uniflow.

I have a RCBS 10-10 balance beam scale that has served me well for over 30 years. I also use a cheap Frankford Arsenal electronic scale to check bullet and case weights, but never for weighing powder as it fluctuates too much (+/-.3 gr). Get either a good balance beam scale or electronic one like the ChargeMaster Lite.

Revolver cases need little prepping, so keep it simple. I now wet tumble with stainless steel pins, but I got along for 20 years with a Midway vibratory tumbler and corn cob media. The Berry's tumbler has a better motor and the Dillon tumbler is a beast (I have the large one and that thing is robust). But my cheap one did last 20 years of hard use.

I like my Cabela's electronic calipers because they easily switch between inches and millimeters. Very handy not just for reloading but lots of mechanical and home repair tasks. Used an RCBS dial caliper before that but was limited to only inches.

Starting out I would buy a large quantity of a fairly standard bullet such as a coated lead, plated or jacketed to get the cost savings of buying in 500-2,000 ct. A mid-range powder like Unique can give you very light target loads up to fairly stout loads in the .44 Special. I would work up a load for that and shoot those a bunch before branching out to other powders and bullets. You save the most when you buy in quantity: 1,000 bullets, 4# or 8# powder, 1,000-5,000 primers. I like CCI and Winchester primers but any of them are fine for .44 Special, get whatever is readily available in quantity locally.

You don't need a press mounted bullet puller for handgun cartridges, as the bullet has enough mass the inertia pullers work fine. My RCBS puller has been banged thousands of times (sadly true) over those 30 years and is still in perfect condition. You don't need a trimmer, debur/chamfer tool, or pocket swager. You might want to get a pocket uniformer to get an even seating of primers, but I only do that for rifle. Handgun accuracy is not nearly as refined as rifle. I like the K&N uniformer because it has a stem designed for cordless drill/drivers.

And yeah, the hinged reloading ammo boxes are very nice. I label everything (ammo cans, ammo boxes, ziplock ammo baggies, which powder is in the measure, etc.) with blue or green painters tape and a Sharpie. Stays on well enough, easy to mark, and easy to peel off for the next batch and new info.

Whatever you do, do not drink, watch TV, Facebook, read a book, or other distractions other than music while reloading. It is so darn easy to miss something and it only takes ONE mistake potentially to ruin a good gun or your body. Pay attention to what you are doing and enjoy the process.

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I don't know where you came up with that but your totally wrong. With the LNL-AP all you need to do is raise the ram all the way up to gain access. Then a 7/16" wrench to loosen it, and replace. Total time < 1 min. To change the sled it's only a few seconds. To change the supply tube it's only a few seconds.

Blue68f100 said:

With the LNL-AP all you need to do is raise the ram all the way up to gain access. Then a 7/16" wrench to loosen it, and replace. Total time < 1 min. To change the sled it's only a few seconds. To change the supply tube it's only a few seconds.

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Very similar for my Dillon 550. I can change calibers in under 5 minutes, including verifying powder drop. Changing primer size takes 60 seconds.

I'll go against the common theme and say yes, you will save money. However much you shoot, reloading will save you money vs factory ammo no matter how you run the numbers. Reloaders typically shoot more than those buying factory so that's where the idea comes in that you don't save money. To put it plainly, each shot will be less than if you had bought it.

As for doing things differently, I would have picked up casting sooner. I began on a progressive but do not see much limitation with a single stage press since I load some rifle cartridges like that. If reloading is part of the fun what does it matter how fast you go? If I had room on my bench I'd get an RCBS Rock Chucker, some shell holders, and dies just for the fun of slow(er) reloading.

1 - Buy the Lee book on reloading. That will cover everything you need know. I have other manuals but feel their presentation is lacking compared to Lee's book.
2 - Your focus should be on earning a suitable income first instead of reloading given Christmas is a mentioned strategy for aquiring items for reloading.
3 - If I could do it over again I would of skipped the Lee dippers and gone straight to the Lee deluxe powder drum with stand.
4 - Nothing wrong with Lee classic setup that requires a mallet or a hand press. I use a hand press.
5 - If I could start over I would of purchased this large MTM tote to store it all in. Makes for a tidy setup that packs all the tools away nicely. Supplies stored seperate.
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I don't know if I would do it over again. I have a pretty good setup and I haven't loaded a single round since Dec. 2016.

Don't let the best be the enemy of the good. I have a friend who has been putting off reloading for over twenty years. It isn't the cost, he really does have over 80K in firearms and ammunition.

It is two things, the first is a reasonable fear of other peoples reloads. He learned that when we were in our twenties when a father of a friend gave him some .45 cartridges and it took out a cylinder and top-strap. We later determined that the cartridges had too much crimp (which is probably why I use just enough crimp to keep the bullets from moving).

The other thing is that while reloading was an interest to him, he shoots a lot, it wasn't a top priority. There was always a gun he wanted more.

Then one other thing. . . He became convinced that he had to have a Dillon. For some reason he considered it the only "safe" press (I suspect that is because they ship with the dies set up). This is why he never used the Lee progressive I gave him, pre-set for .45 acp 230g ball (before you think, gee, what a generous friend, understand, I was making room on my bench for another press).

Here is where the problem was, the Dillon he wants (he mentioned it again this summer. . . over twenty, going on thirty years, just get the thing . . .) is expensive. It is so much so that when his gun budget is ready for another purchase, you guessed it, another gun pops onto his radar.

The point of this, he became fixated on the best. As a result he never got the good. For almost thirty years I have been hearing him go on about how he would like to get into reloading . . . just buy the thing!

I shot in an "local" steel match this weekend. I wasn't something I had planned on, I saw a match on practiscore and just signed up on Thursday. So, I shot 2 guns, a total of about 350 rounds. Had I used factory ammo it would have been about $80.00 so I probably would not have shot in this match. Mid week I have a USPSA practice match (120 rounds), next weekend I have an ICORE match (200 rounds), the following weekend a steel league and steel challenge match (150 + 225 rounds) and last weekend of the month a steel league and the PSA shootout (150+400 rounds). That's about 1700 rounds in April and this doesn't include practice figure 500 rounds so 2200 rounds in April. That would be $450.00 worth of ammo in just 1 month. It's bad enough paying for the materials to handload that much ammo.

Steer away from the standard O frame single stage reloading presses unless you only shoot precision big rifle. There is little else they excel at these days, the industry has left them in the past and they should stay there. With a press like the LCT on the market it is a no-brainer deal since it will do SS to work up loads, and so much more for the money.
When and if you decide to step up keep that LCT to team up with a progressive press.

You are definitely going to save money, you will pay less per round, a lot less in the case of big rifle and large caliber hand gun/pistol, face it, for most of us that is the main attraction. If you aren't going to jump in to the economy of scale thing(buying in bulk) then it might not be worth it.

If you are only loading up a couple of hundred rounds at a time, I don't see any reason to get a progressive. I'm in the 'start with a single-stage' camp, it's how I started and running one process at a time kept me out of trouble... making newbee mistakes and such. If you ever decide to start loading rifle cartridges, you will continue to use that trusty single-stage... I just used mine tonight to load 100 .30-30 cartridges, even though I have a progressive, now, as well. I see the argument of the 'turret press' advocates, but I don't see the reason to spend more money... again, if you are only loading for a few (2) cartridges.

Speaking of .30-30 cartridges... my first attempt to load rifle cartridges was the .30-30 on the very same press. I loaded 20 of them and they were completely unshootable. I learned from my mistakes... doing so on my little single-stage press... slow and steady wins the race.

For regular pistol ammo, and in particular the .44SPC and the .357MAG, I don't see any reason not to just use the roll crimp built into most bullet seat dies, it doesn't have to be a death grip, just knock the case bell in a bit. Having said that, I use taper crimp dies on most of my reloading... my progressive press has a 5th station just for that purpose; I like the taper crimp dies over the Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD.) I've never had any luck with the FCD. Even so, if I was reloading on the single-stage, I'd just use the roll crimp and be done with it... why add another step?

I load .44SPC for my 5.5" Flattop, too. I did have to have the cylinder reamed, just FYI. Mine has other problems, hopefully yours is a better example.