If you had to do it all over again

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MidRoad

MidRoad

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Ok guys I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the reloading world this year. I picked up a few handguns this year and would really like to increase the volume I shoot. With the costs of .44 special I think I really need to get myself setup.

Anyways I plan on learning from what you experienced guys think. If you had to do it all over again based on what you learned from reloading over the years what would you recommend for beginners? Are there things you'd avoid? I don't think I'd need a progressive press,but maybe im wrong.I don't shoot that much and don't mind it taking longer to load (gives me something relaxing to do). Excuse me for being clueless this is the first time I've inquired or looked into reloading.

Edit to add:

Mainly planning to load the 44 special for my blackhawk. Once I get the hang of it I'd like to load .357's for my gp100. May not reload rifles for a while since I dont shoot them nearly as much as handguns and the factory rifle stuff works great for whitetails.
 
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Start with a Lee Classic Turret. Learn to use it in single-stage mode. Later, you can install the auto-index rod, on-press powder measure, and primer feed and be able to crank out 200+ rounds per hour easily.

I started with a Dillon 550 and don't regret it. It is mounted on one end of my bench, and I use it for all my semi-auto handgun rounds (380, 9, 40, 45). On the other end of my bench is a LCT, and I use that for all my rifle and revolver loads. I occasionally use the auto-index feature, but mostly I run it in single-stage mode and batch process 25-50 rounds at a time.

44 Special is one caliber you can save a lot of money over factory ammo.
 
thomas15 said:
Two things:

1. You will not save any money
2. If you are planning on handloading for handguns get a "good" progressive press.
Click to expand...

44 special around here is 36-45 bucks a box of 50. Cheapest I found online is 50 cents a round plus shipping.

I plan on getting a list together for what I need to buy to start my setup and ask for parts of the list as gifts for Xmas from family this year. I also have asked them to start saving brass . Im thinking the initial cost will be expensive but price per round will hopefully pay off overtime. 75 cents a round is tough to swallow.
 
FWIW, I've tried a few different bullets in 44 (not a comprehensive list, by any means) and I have settled on the Zero 240 JSP bullet. Costs about $0.14 each in quantity of 1000. They have been accurate from mild loads for my revolver to hot loads for my carbine.

So, not counting brass, I can load 44mag for about $0.20 each. You can get the cost down more if you go with plated, cast/lubed, or cast/coated bullets.
 
Bones741 said:
44 special around here is 36-45 bucks a box of 50. Cheapest I found online is 50 cents a round plus shipping.

I plan on getting a list together for what I need to buy to start my setup and ask for parts of the list as gifts for Xmas from family this year. I also have asked them to start saving brass . Im thinking the initial cost will be expensive but price per round will hopefully pay off overtime. 75 cents a round is tough to swallow.
Click to expand...

You rock dude!
 
Bones741 said:
thomas15 said:
Two things:

1. You will not save any money
2. If you are planning on handloading for handguns get a "good" progressive press.
Click to expand...
44 special around here is 36-45 bucks a box of 50. Cheapest I found online is 50 cents a round plus shipping.

I plan on getting a list together for what I need to buy to start my setup and ask for parts of the list as gifts for Xmas from family this year. I also have asked them to start saving brass . Im thinking the initial cost will be expensive but price per round will hopefully pay off overtime. 75 cents a round is tough to swallow.
Click to expand...

What he means is that you will end up shooting a lot more and spend more money overall.

I was going out only about once a month and shooting 50 rounds when I was buying factory ammo. Now that I cast and reload, every round, no matter what caliber is about 5-8 cents a shot. (3 cents for the primer, 1-2 cents for the powder and 2-3 cents for the bullet). At a typical 6 cents per shot, 200 rounds is $12 and I shoot about 6 times a month now which is a monthly expenditure of maybe $72/month compared to $20-$30/month.

I bought a LnL AP and also got a used Lee Breechlock Challenger single stage press to start with. I learned the basics with the Lee and after 3 weeks of loading and shooting, moved up to the progressive; first in "turret mode" (one round at a time along all 5 stations), then with 2, 3 and finally 5 cases in the press. Loading 100 rounds with 100 pulls of the handle in 15 minutes is much easier than 4-5 pulls per round and definitely easier than having to change dies between stages.

I still use the single stage press for rifle rounds and for sizing bullets so you'll never need to get rid of a single stage press.
 
IMO. Beginners should start with a good single stage press kit. You get most of what you need except the dies ,cases, bullets, primers and powder. I think you should stick with one brand before you mix and match. Learn and understand every step of the reloading process. Stay away from progressive presses until you have learned every step of reloading and are sure you want to continue reloading. Progressives can be tricky to setup and for a newbie it's too easy to overlook or miss an important step in the process. I think progressive presses should be left to the seasoned and experienced reloader. The most important part is to obtain all the reloading manuals you can get and read them! Some are free. Good luck and don't worry about all the fancy stuff until you have mastered the basic's. You can step up to better equipment as your confidence grows and you feel comfortable with your knowledge.:thumbup:
 
Bones741 said:
For that Lee classic turret it looks like it's got a plate so you can easily set and switch calibers right? Seems like it offers a lot for the price.
Click to expand...


Yes the caliber changeover is simple, change die head, primer size if need be and shell holder can be done in under 1 minute. it is a lot of press for the money also can be used as a single stage very easily. I suggested to a friend to start with this set up and it was by far the right choice. I started on a used single stage from my father and quickly outgrew it. i went to the LCT and although i have several progressives the LCT stays on the bench for rounds i do not shot a lot of( sub 5k a year). It is capable of 200 rounds per hour production and will do some of the bigger rifle calibers if the need arises. best bang for your buck in the press world hands down. make sure you get the classic and not the cheaper one.

a cheap digital scale like the frankford arsenal and a check weight and i personally would piece one together and not go the kit route. Get the auto drum powder measure. the auto prime stuff and ur in business. also make sure to get the powder riser and if you plan on rifle you will need the rifle charging die.
 
Two things:

1. You will not save any money
2. If you are planning on handloading for handguns get a "good" progressive press
Click to expand...

With respect to saving money, you definitely can save a good deal of money, especially on more rare cartridges. Heck, I am able to reload 9mm for about $6-6.50 a box. The key is to buy in bulk, buy when items are on sale, and combine hazardous items so that you only pay one hazardous materials fee. If you buy powder at local gun shops for $30/lb, primers for $4/100, and bullets for local prices, you will likely break even or pay more. I can get Hodgdon rifle powders online for $180/8lbs, primers for $2/100, and bullets for far less than local prices (for plinking, I use Berry’s plated bullets which are cheap and accurate). You may lose money because you’ll probably start shooting more.

I started on a Lee Value Turret kit. It’s a decent setup, but if I were to do it again, I would have started on the Lee Classic Cast Turret as it is better made. Turrets are good because they can churn out a decent amount of ammo while allowing new reloaded to understand the different processes.

If you go the progressive route, I concur with respect to getting a quality press. Lee makes progressives that work for some and not others. My recommendation is to go with either the Hornady or a Dillon (the Hornady vs Dillon debate is like 9mm vs .45). The bottom line is that both are quality presses. They both have their pros and cons. I personally went Hornady because Cabelas had a deal where it was on sale for $380 plus you got 500 free bullets and I used gift cards that I got on eBay that were 18% off. It takes a few hours to set up the press and tune your dies, but it’s been running nicely. I also slapped it on an In-line Fabrication mount which is awesome.
 
You haven't said what gun you want to reload for, That is make and model.
Chances are a 44 is not a cheap investment. So do the same with reloading equipment, buy quality, the tools will last many life times.
It is easier to load with quality tooling and the results will be better.
Your first buy should be the Lyman Handbook of reloading, also ABC's of reloading. Then start reading.
Reloading is a second hobby to shooting, it is also a rat hole you will fall into.
More tools, books, and supplies. Then start casting bullets because they are less expensive, see how you slide down into the reloading
rat hole.
 
44spcl is one of those cartridges that will save you a ton by reloading. As a lot of others have said, get the lee classic turret press and a few extra turrets for whatever calibers you want to reload. The dies can stay set up, and switching the turrets is easy. I prime cases off press with an rcbs universal hand primer tool and batch process on the turret press with the index rod removed. That way i can index the die set to the next die by hand when I'm ready. I also use Lee carbide dies for all straight wall cases so no case lube needed. I can load 44 mag for about $9 a box, so there is some real savings from buying in bulk and rolling your own...
 
Bones741 said:
Ok guys I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the reloading world this year. I picked up a few handguns this year and would really like to increase the volume I shoot. With the costs of .44 special I think I really need to get myself setup.

Anyways I plan on learning from what you experienced guys think. If you had to do it all over again based on what you learned from reloading over the years what would you recommend for beginners? Are there things you'd avoid? I don't think I'd need a progressive press,but maybe im wrong.I don't shoot that much and don't mind it taking longer to load (gives me something relaxing to do). Excuse me for being clueless this is the first time I've inquired or looked into reloading.
Click to expand...
The Lee Classic Turret is a good start. It works well. And you take the indexer out for use as a single stage. You can get the kit, but may find some of it will get replaced with better options. Extra turret plates.

As horsemen61 said, when working up a load, do in small amounts.

A couple reloading manuals to study with. Lymans 50th is my top choice.

Once you find a good load with a certain powder, buy a 4, 5, or 8 lb. jug of it. Never know when the next craze will wipe you favorite off the shelves.
 
Bones741 said:
Ok guys I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the reloading world this year. I picked up a few handguns this year and would really like to increase the volume I shoot.
Click to expand...

That's a good way to view it. When you start reloading it very quickly evolves from "I will get to shoot more for the same price if I reload." to "Crap, there goes another $200 for bullets, because I get them cheaper when I buy in bulk. Why do I need more components? I just do."

If you enjoy shooting, you will not save any money.

Bones741 said:
Anyways I plan on learning from what you experienced guys think. If you had to do it all over again based on what you learned from reloading over the years what would you recommend for beginners? Are there things you'd avoid? I don't think I'd need a progressive press, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't shoot that much and don't mind it taking longer to load (gives me something relaxing to do). Excuse me for being clueless this is the first time I've inquired or looked into reloading.
Click to expand...

I traded for a Dillon 550B awhile ago but only got it running in December. However, I've already learned a few things.

If you are looking to load pistol cartridges I would definitely go straight to a progressive. There are a number of very knowledgeable folks on here who will say you should start on a single stage. I disagree with that notion. What is really crucial is that you take your time in all aspects, and avoid distractions.

Set up your dies slowly, and ensure you have them properly tightened. Your practice rounds need to be coming out consistently within spec.

Observe each and every thing you are doing. De-priming, re-priming, dropping powder, VERRIFYING the powder has dropped, seating a bullet, and crimping properly are all things that should be observed on every pull of the handle. Go slowly.

With 45 acp, not all manufacturers use the same primer sizes. Some use small pistol primers and others use large. I didn't learn this until I tried to seat a large primer in a small primer pocket. Hint, that doesn't work. I don't know if there are other cartridges that vary like that, but I guess my point is study up on a cartridge before loading it, and ask here if there are any quirks you need to know about.

Different loading manuals will have different overall lengths listed for the same cartridge, which means with the same bullet, so seating depths vary with the same bullet. This affects pressure, and therefore different charge starting weights and max loads. Pay close attention to OAL in the load data.

Sort your brass before you load.

Inspect your brass for damage before you load.

Where gloves, because of chemical exposure.

Buy carbide dies, so you can avoid lubrication.

Buy an RCBS kinetic bullet puller. I've already found mine useful.

The Dillon 550 series is indexed manually not automatically. I like this feature as I can load one round at a time if I want. That is how I plan to start loading 460 S&W magnum, on my progressive, but one station at a time.

You can not check one scale with another scale. You need a set of check weights.

Write down everything you do when loading a batch, and take notes when trying those rounds out.

Start low and work your way up to warmer loads. Follow load data.

And one more time, take your time and set things up right.
 
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giggitygiggity said:
.......I started on a Lee Value Turret kit. It’s a decent setup, but if I were to do it again, I would have started on the Lee Classic Cast Turret as it is better made. Turrets are good because they can churn out a decent amount of ammo while allowing new reloaded to understand the different processes.......
Click to expand...

My father was an electrical engineer and held 3 patents for circuits used by the US Army in their helicopter simulators to train pilots to fly in night and/or severe weather. He made his own 30 caliber (rifle) cast bullets in a Lyman single cavity mold using range lead. Then he decapped (hand washed) LC military brass using a pin and claw hammer with the cartridge placed in a homemade fixture. Then he removed the primer pocket crimp with a Lyman hand tool. The bullets went through a lubber/sizer and had gas checks installed. Primers were installed using a hand priming tool. For a long time he went to a friends house to use his single stage press and beam scale but eventually solved this problem. He made a gage to check OAL and put all of his finished ammo in recycled mil surplus cardboard ammo boxes.

For a good chunk of my life this was my picture of handloading ammo. It took literally forever to make enough ammo to shoot one match. I, like the OP, handload for handguns. If I had to settle for a production time of even 1/4 of what we did in the days of my youth I would have never got into this endeavor. Personally I have other things to do with my time. I like handloading, have an extensive collection of books on the subject, 4 presses mounted on my bench, an actual mountain of bullets, brass, powders and primers. So I'm not in this half-hearted.

For my Dad this was how it was done back in the late 50s early 60s. He had free brass and lead but tools were relatively expensive and slow in operation and I was 1 of 6 kids so, you know, budget. But just because my well educated Dad did it a certain way doesn't mean I was willing to follow pursuit nor should I try to convince someone else to go that way. So, the OP asks what would you do differently? Simple, I would ignore all of the handloaders who say "this is how I did it" and figure out what exactly I want to gain from the hobby. Then I would buy the best tools I could afford to reach that goal. If the way that I did it was so great, then I would have 1 maybe 2 presses instead of 4. I would not even have a turret press at all.

If you look down the barrel of the future and think that you want to have 500 or 1000 rounds of 2 or 3 handgun calibers ready to go shooting at any time and you don't want to spend 10 hours a week making that ammo then you might want something a little faster than 100-150 rounds per hour. At a conservative 500 rounds/hour my present rig seems slow to me now, if I knew that back when I started I would have not even considered a single stage or turret press. That is the essence of the OP question. Maybe I think too highly of myself but I don't feel that a progressive is that complicated or the 4 or 5 steps of "the process" are that involved that the budding handloader with at least an average IQ can will fail unless they get something painfully slow.

I have my Dad's RCBS dies from 1964 in 30-06 Springfield. This set of dies has a lock ring with a set screw. WOW! What this means is you could remove the die from a single stage press in about 5 seconds, install another in 5 seconds and not have to make any adjustments except the initial. Believe it or not, 50+ years ago there was a way to make die and caliber changes quickly. Why is it that fans of entry level turrets make it sound like the ability to change out dies quickly is some kind of advanced 21st century engineering concept?
 
What would I do differently?

1. Buy a good scale up front like the Gempro 250. Took me 2 cheap ones before I learned that lesson.
2. This is for rifle reloading. Invest up front in equipment to make brass prep easier. Hand cranking a manual case trimmer gets old the first time you do it and never gets any better. Get a powered solution like the WFT or Trim It
3. This is actually something I did do that I would do again. Invest up front in a progressive press (Dillon 650 for me)
 
Casting is really where you save the money.
I can load .44 Specials or magnums for less than $100 per thousand rounds (not counting the brass).

I started on single stage, and moved to Lee turret press. It is great for handgun.

I don't see me ever going to a full progressive, but never say never.
 
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