Acceptable accuracy of sights on shield

Sounds like you are anticipating the shot and driving the muzzle down ahead of the shot going off.

Your windage could be placing your trigger finger too far into the trigger guard which causes you to put leftward pressure on the trigger as you retract your finger to pull the trigger.

Just some things to look at. A better question is how your group looks? Never mind for a second where the point of impact is, is your group tight?

<*(((>< said:

Sounds like you are anticipating the shot and driving the muzzle down ahead of the shot going off.

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^^^^
What he said. I've been guilty of that myself occasionally. Especially with smallish DAO pistols like my own 9mm Shield.

hokiemojo said:

groups were consistently about 10 inches low

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A lot if at 10 feet. Not normal .IMO.

Much more common at 25 yards with some fixed sight handguns.

How were groups fired, from a rest? Or off hand?

Try shooting of a rest or letting a friend shoot and see where it groups.

If I may make a suggestion I'd invest in some professional training and see if it improves your marksmanship.

You are most likely anticipating the shot and flinching.

My wife had the same issue and swore up and down she wasn't flinching. I took her gun and while facing away from her so she couldn't see what I was doing I put an empty magazine in it and racked the slide. I handed it back to her and when she pulled the trigger (since there wasn't a live round in it) she saw how much she was driving the muzzle toward the ground in anticipation of the recoil. After a couple of magazines, your brain figures out when the trigger is going to break and that's where the tensing up comes from.

Do some dry fire practice and you'll find out if that's what's going on or not.

It is an accurate pistol for the range it was designed for. At 7 yards I can cut a 1 1/2" hole out of the center of a target.

I'm at best an average shot. I picked up a Shield 2.0 not too long ago. The pictures are the first 7 rounds out of my Shield, from 21 feet and 100 rounds, also from 21 feet fired at fast as I could without getting thrown out of the indoor range I was at. It's a pretty accurate gun, and if your groups are that far off, as others suggested there's something else going on.

hokiemojo said:

I'm confident that my sights are off

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Like others have said, your problem is that you’re anticipating the shot and pushing the gun down to compensate for recoil. It’s not unusual for people to do this consistently enough that they still have decent groups, I’ve seen it many times.

In order for your gun to be shooting 10 inches low at 10 feet, there would have to be something extremely wrong with the gun. Either your front sight would be comically high or the axis of the barrel would have to be way misaligned in the slide. If the former were the case, it would be obvious, and if the latter were the case the gun almost certainly wouldn’t function.

Try this experiment to help you visualize this: At 10 feet from the target, aim your gun at the center of your target (it helps if you stabilize the gun on a rest). Now, keeping the gun aimed at the center of your target, move your head so that your front sight is now centered on a spot 10 inches below the center of your target. Now you can see how far off everything would have to be in order for the gun to be at fault.

http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/slideshow/FirearmsReloading102/9MM Accuracy

9mm accuracy testing from the American Riflemam Magazine.

Hope the link works?

Try some 147 gr ammo. The slower velocity , longer barrel time, may raise bullet point of inpact a few inches.

hokiemojo said:

I appreciate everyone's input. Like I said, I'm not a great shot, but I'm confident that my sights are off. I fired standing at first. Then kneeling with my hands resting on a table, then a friend tried standing. I'm pretty confident this isn't a skills issue. I fired about 75 rounds, and aside from a few fliers, the group was about 6 inches in diameter. I'm just wondering how accurate these type of sights should be expected to be.

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What’s your hold? Combat or 6 o’clock or...? On my Shied the front dot needs to be covering the POA or I’ll be a little low.

6 inches low at 10 feet could be the gun. I had a G43 that was 2-3 inches low at 7 yards.

Try a laser bore sight and see how it compares to your sights. The laser should be very close to your POA anywhere from 10-20 yards.

Lots of people shoot left with that gun - it’s got a very noticable and harsh trigger break, or at least mine does

Wisco said:

6 inches low at 10 feet could be the gun.

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Unless I missed something, he said he’s 10 inches low at 10 feet, with a 6 inch group. That’s way too low for the gun to be at fault, not without something being obviously wrong.

Theohazard said:

Unless I missed something, he said he’s 10 inches low at 10 feet, with a 6 inch group. That’s way too low for the gun to be at fault, not without something being obviously wrong.

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Good catch. I misread the follow up post. :/

6 inch group, at 10 feet is a whole other thing regardless of sights - trigger control.

I still recommend boresighting it with one of those in the muzzle end lasers so the OP knows where rounds are supposed to be going. I’ve done it with harder for me to shoot pistols and realized some operator error in my trigger press.

I have had a Shield since 2012. It took a while for me to figure out why I was shooting low, but I've got it now. Going to 124gr ammo instead of 115gr will move the impact up a bit and that combined with putting the white dot on your front sight right on what you want to hit should get you hitting where you want to be.

I have had a Shield for several years. As Jonesy814 stated above going to 124gr ammo and putting the dot of the front sight on what you want to hit greatly improved my accuracy with the 9mm Shield.

Something I have noticed in the last year, with my own shooting. I was consistently low. The reason? I wanted to see where I hit. I was pushing the gun down, "out of the way", so I could see my target. Try shooting your whole group, without looking at each impact. See if it improves.

I'm not trying to be a prick but I'm going to suggest professional training again. A professional trainer can watch you shoot and correct any deficiencies on the spot

Trunk Monkey said:

I'm not trying to be a prick but I'm going to suggest professional training again. A professional trainer can watch you shoot and correct any deficiencies on the spot

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He’s already taken training and shoots better with another gun...

He asked really specific question - how much error is reasonable. That’s reasonably easy to ascertain with some methods mentioned.

hokiemojo said:

Edit: I added a comment below. I'm confident this isn't my shooting skills. I've taken two pistol classes and am reasonable with my xdm compact. I'm just trying to understand, if I were a PERFECT shot, how much margin of error is reasonable for the factory sights.

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Wisco said:

He’s already taken training and shoots better with another gun...

He asked really specific question - how much error is reasonable. That’s reasonably easy to ascertain with some methods mentioned.

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I wouldn't rule out shooter error even so, I'd have someone else shoot from a sandbag or rest and see what that does.

Madcap_Magician said:

I wouldn't rule out shooter error even so, I'd have someone else shoot from a sandbag or rest and see what that does.

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I didn’t rule out shooter error - I actually suggested earlier the large group size is a symptom of a bad trigger press. I’m merely suggesting that there’s easier and cheaper things to do than training. Knowing exactly where the barrel points is a good start.

Rest the gun. Have someone else rest the gun. Boresight it. Lots of options.

mine does the same thing. don't know if it is me or the gun.

hokiemojo said:

I'm just trying to understand, if I were a PERFECT shot, how much margin of error is reasonable for the factory sights.

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This is from 12 feet with my Shield 9, but it has a nice Apex trigger. The OEM trigger was pretty bad and no matter what I did or how careful I was, the front sight would jerk as the striker released.




I advise you to have someone else you trust shoot your pistol before you blame it or the sights.

How many types of ammunition did you test?

I've shot many M&P Shields, and all hit POA. My 2.0 hits POA. (It shoots so well that it's the only plastic fantastic wonder nine I own)

I'd try a variety of ammo. I'd also let another, experienced shooter, take it for a test drive.