Questions about Uppers and Lowers, and first time buying

I should have added 2 things to my above post; 1. When I say I’m done giving advice, I’m often mistaken and 2. I find @Coal Dragger reasoning to be sound as well. Both buying and building have positives and potential negatives. This is all of course predicated on the OP wanting an AR.

@Bryson Chamberlain, if you’d like to start with a rimfire and still enjoy great flexibility, the Ruger 10/22 or some variant will allow your imagination and budget unlimited room to roam. Be safe, have fun, and I wish you well.

FIRST: I agree that buying your first AR15 is the easiest and smartest way to go about it. You'll have factory support and less of a chance of an issue. You can always upgrade later. I say this because from your original post, it seems that you stated that you have little firearms experience. Building (think "assembling" more than "building") an AR15 is not hard, and I never bought a "pre-assembled" AR as I've built all mine. But then again, I've been involved with shooting sports since I was a kid. So for me, understanding the basics was not tough.

SECOND: If you decide that you want to build/assemble your first AR15, there are a couple ways about it. The easiest way is to buy a "complete upper" and "complete lower" and snap them together. A little harder than that is buying a "complete upper" and a "stripped lower" and a "lower parts kit", and assembling the lower. The hardest is buying a "stripped lower" and piecing everything else. When it comes to terminology of an AR, you have the "upper receiver" and "lower receiver"... basically the lower is easier to build than the upper.

THIRD: Find good resources to decide what route to do.

WATCH THIS VIDEO IF YOU ONLY WANT TO WATCH ONE VIDEO!!!!!!:


AR15nerd is a good blog/website that I've found for beginners. Here's a link of the basics on building and understanding the AR15 and its nuances. Again, this is entry level info. https://ar15nerd.com/how-to-build-an-ar-15-the-basic-parts-you-need/

There are plenty of Youtube personalities going over AR15 builds. I'd check out Sooch00 and his build videos. He does a pretty good job explaining. Here are a few other videos. The first is a super detailed video that I use to build. You can see if you are interested. The second and third is the basics of the AR15 platform.
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FOURTH: Find good brands.

For buying a complete and basic rifle, look at brands such as Smith & Wesson, Ruger, DelTon, Aero Precision, Anderson, DPMS, and Palmetto State Armory. There are others but those are off the top of my head. Normally, a rifle will run about $400-600 depending on accessories and sale prices.

For buying a complete upper receiver and complete lower receiver and attaching them, look at Palmetto State Armory just to make it easy. There are always plenty of sales. Prices will be around the same.

AND REMEMBER, the lower receiver... whether it is stripped, complete, or a full rifle... must go through an "FFL" (federal firearms license... i.e. a gun store)

Agree with the people saying to buy a complete rifle first.

S&W, Ruger, Bushmaster, Del-Ton - at $600 and under, they're all basically the same gun. Get one you like and shoot the crap out of it.

Bryson Chamberlain said:

I am newbie when it comes to guns, but want to get into them. I saw a similar thread about buying a complete upper and lower would you have a complete gun, excluding accessories, mags, or ammo. I wanted to ask a couple more questions on top of that. Keep in mind these might be dumb questions, but i'm gonna ask them any way. Do you need to ship the parts to a FFL dealer? How should I go about talking to the gun store? What questions and info do I get from them? Can you have ammo also shipped to them or does it need to go to your place of residence? Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.

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Please note that in CA, AFAIK as of now firearms and ammo must go through authorized dealers. Soon all firearms components will have to (in CA). Most other states only require the actual firearm to go through an FFL but state laws vary so check the laws for your state before acting.

This is a start. Please note I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV:

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/

Coal Dragger said:

I’m going to give unpopular advice here to our new member, but it is worth considering:

For your first AR variant rifle don’t build one, buy one. Preferably from a reputable manufacturer that knows what they’re doing and who will fix things in the unlikely event something breaks. For starters since you’re new to shooting there’s a very high probability you don’t know what parts you’d actually want, probably don’t have some of the tools you’d need, and probably don’t want to be frustrated with a rifle that doesn’t work right with no one to turn to but yourself and your own money.

Now before all of you bust out your torches and pitchforks, all of you do a quick search of all the threads on this forum dealing with home built AR’s that don’t work right. There are a lot of them. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble, but a lot of our members cannot seem to source compatible parts, assemble things correctly, or in some cases even source quality parts to begin with. There were no less than three such threads in the last few weeks... gas port size issues, magazine incompatibility issues with a 9mm build, mismatched feed ramps with a 9mm build, I’m sure if I search again I could find more.

So Bryson, ask yourself if you’re more interested in shooting or more interested in wrenching and troubleshooting? If you like to tinker, and don’t mind throwing money and time at a pile of parts trying to make them work then by all means build a rifle.

Otherwise I suggest acquiring a good 16” barrel M4 variant that is otherwise simple. I don’t know what your budget is but there are a lot of good choices. Then buy magazines, a decent sling, a quality optic Iike an Aimpoint PRO, or Trijicon MRO (or similar) if desired, and ammo. Then get out and shoot, learn what you actually like and dislike about a basic carbine. Chances are you’re going to find that basic carbine is pretty dang capable out of the box.

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Different strokes for different folks. For my first, as well as subsequent AR rifles, I built them all. First one worked perfectly, as did most of the others...had a small short stroke problem with a 300BO carbine that turned out to be a leaky adjustable gas block.

I couldnt find an AR anywhere, if you did it was 1500 or so. It took forever to find a lower, then a Seekins went by and I snagged it. Still have that one. They are a LOT easier to find these days, and an assembled one is liable to be available for an all around better price, but I learned a ton about them from the build. They are a relatively simple rifle, and are simple to build if you do your homework. If it doesnt work right, there are only a few things that can be wrong. I will admit, I was astonished test firing the first one when it worked perfectly, but it sure did.

Might not work for everyone, but did in my case, plus I could disassemble the thing if necessary for repair. I spent a little money, but education is expensive, and at the end of this "class" I had a working AR and knew it inside and out.

No gun building background, most all info came from members of the high road, naturally.

Russellc


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I built my first AR in 2006, when there were fewer options on the market. A Colt 6920 would run you about $1100 back then. They can be had now for around $800.

Then, much the same as now, there weren't many manufacturers who offered a rifle exactly as I wanted it.

If you have any mechanical aptitude at all, and the ability to teach yourself from the hundreds of tutorials that are available online, it is easy to build your own.

Depending on how deep you plan to dive into the build, you may need to buy some tools to build it properly.

If you factor in the cost of the tools, you probably won't save money on your first build.


There is nothing wrong with pressing the easy button and buying a factory rifle. But if you are anything like me, that means you will wind up with, at the very least, a 'mil-spec' trigger group that you paid for that winds up sitting in a box because you pulled it out to put in a quality aftermarket option.


I have used a wide variety of components ranging from very expensive to very inexpensive. If you do your homework there are some high quality parts out there being sold by high-volume low-margin vendors.

I have used Palmetto State Armory as a source for many barrels, bolt carrier groups, and receivers. I build them myself because I like to do my own QC on assembly. And because I am particular on muzzle devices (either silencer mounts or muzzle brakes), gas blocks (adjustable clamping type), and handguards.

For example my recent PRS Gas Gun build. Monolithic upper receiver. JP LMOS carrier and adj gas block. You can't buy this complete rifle. Also shown are the barrel nut wrench for a monolithic receiver, as well as the Geissele reaction rod and a torque wrench, which are both tools which are necessary to assemble an upper from component parts.

someguy2800 said:

On a scale of mechanical difficulty from 1-10 I would rate building and AR from stripped lower and upper about a 3. I was disappointed when I did my first one that it was so easy.

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Agreed. Very simple rifle. Very limited number of problems, all easily solved. No big deal if you are slightly mechanically minded.

Ask lots of questions here. Have it built in your mind with no question unanswered. When any questions come up during the build, stop and ask. Then proceed.

Russellc

You'll be better off I think. You don't have to build a gun to learn about it. You do have to shoot a gun a fair amount to learn what you really might like to change though. Besides, if you have one rifle that works, you have the luxury of building a second one that doesn't have to be 100% right off the bat.

I'm in the camp to buy one with a warranty rather than save 2 bucks.

My son is the same age you are Bryson, and even though I could have helped him build one (I was an Armorer in the Army) I advised him to buy a new one. Come to think of it, 5 years ago I gave his older brother the same advice. Both bought DPMS rifles from the LGS in our town, and they have been excellent rifles. Both boys did change a few things on them, and I did help with that. You Tube has some great videos, as Jeeper Creeper posted, and of course, you always have the many experienced builders here to ask. I think you've made a wise decision, and when you turn 21 in few months, you can always pick up a lower to tuck away for when you get the itch to build one.

tarosean said:

I'm in the camp to buy one with a warranty rather than save 2 bucks.

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Let's be fair about it...

Ruger from Bud's gun shop: $695
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...Centerfire+Autoloading/Ruger+MPR+5.56+18+30RD

Build from Palmetto state armory.
$419 and free shipping.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-kit-w-mbus-sight-set.html


The Palmetto kit will need a lower, so add $40. But the Ruger doesn't come with sights. So that is roughly a wash.

Almost $300 difference. That is a case of ammo. I would rather have a rifle and 1000 rounds to shoot through it than only a rifle.




Both of the rifles in the links above come with salt bath nitride treated barrels. The PSA is a 1-7 twist 4150 chrome moly vanadium barrel. The Ruger comes with a hammer forged 1-8 twist barrel. Ruger makes a great barrel, and hammer forging is a plus. The PSA comes with a Carpenter 158 steel bolt, which is what is called for in the TDP for the M4 rifle. The Ruger comes with a 9310 steel bolt, which is also a very high quality steel that is used by many companies in their ARs. The Ruger is an 18" rifle length gas barrel. The PSA is a 16" mid-length. That difference boils down to personal preference. Both come with a free floating barrel and an MLOK handguard.

In addition to needing a lower receiver for that kit, you also need to buy a lower receiver vice block, a reaction rod or upper vice block, a torque wrench, possibly a bench vice, roll pin punches and roll pin starter punches, an armorers wrench, and a punch for staking the end plate of the receiver extension.

I probably forgot a few things.

There goes most of that $300 savings. Plus it has no warranty, you’re on your own.

Coal Dragger said:

In addition to needing a lower receiver for that kit, you also need to buy a lower receiver vice block, a reaction rod or upper vice block, a torque wrench, possibly a bench vice, roll pin punches and roll pin starter punches, an armorers wrench, and a punch for staking the end plate of the receiver extension.

I probably forgot a few things.

There goes most of that $300 savings. Plus it has no warranty, you’re on your own.

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Do you have to throw those tools away when your done?

That is true IF the only purpose for your tools is building a AR. Otherwise;

Magpul Armorers Wrench - $75.95
Magpul BEV block - $47.45
(You can get better prices surfing the Internet. I can get them for $64.00 and $39.00 respectively).

Other tools such as the Torque Wrench and various punches are tools that are used for lots of other jobs.

A good vise should be on all work benches and is great to have for cleaning long guns.

p.s. Who only builds one AR? Heck I have built two, building a 3rd (more parts came in yesterday) and two cardboard boxes of parts I am accumulating for builds 4 & 5. So that makes $103.00 divided by 5 = $17.17.

Coal Dragger said:

In addition to needing a lower receiver for that kit, you also need to buy a lower receiver vice block, a reaction rod or upper vice block, a torque wrench, possibly a bench vice, roll pin punches and roll pin starter punches, an armorers wrench, and a punch for staking the end plate of the receiver extension.

I probably forgot a few things.

There goes most of that $300 savings. Plus it has no warranty, you’re on your own.

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Did you click either of those links? I built my first lower with vice grips to press in roll pins and a pipe wrench. You NEED none of the things you listed to complete that build.


I actually use vice grips to press roll pins on every lower that I put together, as it is actually much easier and there is no chance of a punch slipping.

Ancillary benefit, it is possible to break off one of the 'ears' for the roll pin when you install the trigger guard if you drive the pin with a hammer. If you press it with vice grips, both of the ears are fully supported and you can't break them.

Just wrap the jaws of your full size vice grips in electrical tape. Voila.

Coal Dragger said:

In addition to needing a lower receiver for that kit, you also need to buy a lower receiver vice block, a reaction rod or upper vice block, a torque wrench, possibly a bench vice, roll pin punches and roll pin starter punches, an armorers wrench, and a punch for staking the end plate of the receiver extension.

I probably forgot a few things.

There goes most of that $300 savings. Plus it has no warranty, you’re on your own.

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You forgot the cost of two hammers. A small one for the roll pin for the bolt catch and a larger one for staking the castle nut.

BSA1 said:

You forgot the cost of two hammers. A small one for the roll pin for the bolt catch and a larger one for staking the castle nut.

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If you don't own a hammer you can go turn in your man card here.

Bryson Chamberlain said:

This is very good info, and I honestly like tinkering and building and learning what I can, however I also like shooting. Ill take your advice on buying a full rifle first, and learn the parts from it and maybe build a second one. Thank you

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I’m a natural tinkerer, but I agree with this advice. As others have said, you will need access to a few tools to do the job, unless you don’t mind marring everything up terribly. You will need an action wrench, vice, vice blocks and some roll punches. I put my first AR together using a pipe wrench...and it looks like it too!

By the time you get the tools it will be the same cost as an assembled gun. It’s not hard to find a good rifle from a known maker for under $600 delivered these days.

Gentlemen, we should strive to keep some decorum lest we frighten off a new member. We love our banter and discussion of practicality, which is at times heated, but the OP has made a decision based on what’s been stated and if it suits him, that’s a good thing.

I had punches, a small hammer, piece of wood, vise, and a torque wrench. Didn’t mar anything or use any tape and there’s not a mark on it. It could have gone sideways for me or any of us, and of course we should all be using the correct tools for the task at hand (looking at all of us who own an Arkansas Crescent Hammer...). I do like that people are suggesting solid options for complete rifles.

If he's just building a lower, you just need a couple allen wrenches and something heavy like vice grips.

$6 at Walmart basically

someguy2800 said:

If you don't own a hammer you can go turn in your man
card here.

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But is it a GUNSMITH hammer?

BSA1 said:

But is it a GUNSMITH hammer?

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You have to put tape over their eyes so your regular hammer and punches don't know they are working on a gun.

someguy2800 said:

Do you have to throw those tools away when your done?

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No, but they’re still not free. Pretending like tool acquisition is not part of the cost of a job is not realistic budgeting.

Is someone going to give him those tools for free? Nope. He’s going to have to buy them unless he already has them.

I see you live in SLC. I’d bet real good money that there is someone here from that area that has built AR’s and would help you out should you change your mind and build. Or decide to build another in the future

If you lived close to me I’d help you and also take you out shooting but only if you used my reloader and learned to make ammo. Then you’d really be hooked