buying ar-15 upper and lower or buying whole new gun

[longdayjake]

$275 for a complete lower seems pretty reasonable. How much is the lower you're speaking of.

$164.99 and shipping is never more than actual cost to ship. $275 was reasonable in 2009 but today it is too much.

 

[longdayjake]

If $275 is a "ton" of money for a lower, then the AR15 should not be on the map, period. In fact, that price point is pretty much the standard for a quality complete lower. The DPMS lower parts kits used in the Surplus Arms lowers are garbage, and I wouldn't advise anyone use them on what might be called upon as a fighting carbine. Broken pins, out of spec pins (sizing), and fractured hammers stand out in my mind as far as what I have seen from DPMS in the last decade. The Tapco RE used likely wouldn't withstand the first attempt of mortaring out a stuck cartridge. As for their uppers, the bolt group lacks MPI of HPT, and the barrel is of their own spec of 416 stainless and 1:8 polygonal twist rifling. I would much rather go with something that is known to be closer to specs of what the M4 actually is.

Well, there is a difference between a shooter like you and a shooter like me. I know that those parts will work just fine for my type of shooting. I have 3 AR's I can depend on to get things done just fine and not a one of them would score high on the "m4 chart." Though I admit there is some merit to getting mil spec stuff, I will contend that 99% of users do not need it and are just wasting their money when they buy it. Some guys like you need to have the best of the best in order to feel like they haven't wasted their money. If I were a fighting man, I would probably look at a Noveske or something top tier, but I am just a shooter who may use my guns if I have to. I know that if I have to they will work just fine no matter who's parts are in them.

BTW: when I said they make good uppers I was not referring to complete uppers. I was trying to say that aero precision makes good stripped uppers.

 

[ugaarguy]

Quality Parts

The cheapest I've found a DPMS LPK is $53 from Midway. Palmetto State Armory has Daniel Defense LPKs for $74. That's $21 to go from one of the cheapest LPKs to one of the best LPKs.

If you take a look at complete bolt carrier groups at Bravo Company you'll see that a standard CMT semi-auto BCG is $120. A semi or full auto CMT BCG with MPI bolt is $130. That's $10 for cheap insurance against bolt failure.

To keep uppers as apples to apples as possible I'll use a DPMS A3 flat top upper, complete, from Midway, at $500. This is a 16" chrome moly bbl, 1:9 twist, flat top, A-frame FSB / gas block, and unlined "glacier guards." To get a comparable BCM upper we'll use their base semi complete upper at $400. We'll need to add a $23 charging handle, $23 set of M4 handguards, and the above mentioned $130 CMT BCG to complete the upper, for a total of $576.

That extra $76 gets us an HPT/MPI barrel and BCG, true M4 double heat shielded handguards, hard chromed (vs. plain chrome moly) bbl. made from Mil-B-11595E steel (vs. 4140) with a known F height FSB (vs. unspecified forged FSB).

Lets add that Daniel Defense LPK back onto our stripped lower of choice - remember that's $21 more than the DPMS LPK. Combine that with our better upper, and we've added a whopping $97 to the price of the build; taking it from a hobby grade rifle, to a hard use training / fighting / patrol / personal defense grade rifle. Interestingly, $100 is exactly what Stag Arms (CMT's commercial arm) charges for their plus package, which upgrades their rifles in the same critical areas.

I make that long winded post to demonstrate that it's not expensive to build an AR-15 correctly vs. passably. I hope this helps others to make more informed decisions, and question why some makers charge so much for sub standard parts.

 

[mdThanatos]

I know PSA is still relatively new but an alternative to the CMT BCG would be the PSA version, their premium is running at 99 dollars, add a CH for an extra 10 as an option when ordering and that puts the same MPI HPT tested BCG with a CH at 109 before shipping. So savings of 11 or 21 dollars there, which would negate the extra 21 spent on a DD LPK.

There are a lot of options to look at and for the costs that I saw on Midway's site, I'd look at others like PSA and Bravo Company.

 

[ugaarguy]

mdT, I believe we think alike.

 

[longdayjake]

I have to agree with Ugaarguy on this one. IF, and thats if, the OP is willing to build his own rifle from parts, that is a better way to go. I would still stick with the aero precision stripped lower and upper though.

 

[ugaarguy]

I have to agree with Ugaarguy on this one. IF, and thats if, the OP is willing to build his own rifle from parts, that is a better way to go. I would still stick with the aero precision stripped lower and upper though.

If not, there's always the S&W M&P Sport as a factory built rifle with a lifetime warranty for $600. It has a S&W LPK (of course) which is known to take being run hard, HPT/MPI bolt in a carrier group with properly staked gas key, castle nut properly staked to Mil-Spec receiver extension tube, and F marked F height FSB. While the bbl is only 4140, it is 5R rifled, and Melonited inside & out; which makes it far more durable than unlined / untreated chrome moly.

 

[OhioChief]

Yo Mud, thanks for the link on the Mags. great deal. I'm going to place an order as soon as I'm done here!

 

[scbackpacker]

Palmetto State Armory has their lower receivers for $49.95 right now. $7.00 shipping. If you order a lower parts kit at the same time I'm sure there is a 11% Govt. tax. order the lower parts kit separately. The lower is a piece of cake to put together. Wait until they get their complete uppers back in stock and order an upper. Install a rear sight and shoot the thing. Better yet check out their complete rifle kit. Check them out.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/

Here's some pics of my Magpul Moe PSA AR15.