Winchester color case hardening.

Is it actual case color hardening the old fashioned bone and charcoal method, or just case coloring using an acid wash?

George P said:

Is it actual case color hardening the old fashioned bone and charcoal method, or just case coloring using an acid wash?

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That is the key. Ruger used the acid wash and the finish doesn't last.

There are very folks who do bone and charcoal, and Doug is about the best there is.

Notice I distinguished one as case colored HARDENING whereas the other as merely case colored - there IS a difference, one is the byproduct of the actual hardening of the material whereas the other is merely a cosmetic effect

George, that's about the finest looking 76 Winchester I have ever seen. Is that a 45-75? I have a Uberti in 50-95.....but it can't begin to compare to yours.

That is a Doug Turnbull special

Restored Winchester 1876 rifle with color case hardened receiver

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https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/restoration-services/color-case-hardening/

Missed that part where you thought that was mine! I WISH!

Turnbull restored German double gun with color case hardened action

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A family of new Turnbull finished Ruger Mark IV pistols with color case hardened barrels

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Restored, converted and upgraded antique Winchester 1886 rifle with color case hardened receiver

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Those kinda put the current versions from Winchester, Uberti and others to shame a tad, don'tcha think?

George P said:

Those kinda put the current versions from Winchester, Uberti and others to shame a tad, don'tcha think?

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There's no kinda about it, the others can't even compete. Thanks for posting those pictures.

Turnbull does engraving as well; this is a pistol with Cattle Brands all over it:


Maybe some of our Texas members recognize these???

I recently purchased the book "Colour Case Hardening of Firearms" by Seim. Based on my quick skim of the contents, what is real case hardening, is sort of like, what is real barbecue. What I remember from my metallurgical studies was that case hardening was an infusion of carbon into the surface of steel, to increase the hardness. Salt baths and gas infusion seem to have replaced the old bone/leather processes, and from what I have seen on the web, pretty colors are not important for gears or drill bits.


Piston rings case hardened, oil tempered








The case hardening we see on firearms is pretty case hardening, maybe it did something metallurgically good on pre 1920 carbon steel firearms, but today, with alloy steels, it is definitely decorative. And I think the pretty case color on vintage arms was deliberately done to enhance sales back in the day. They could have hardened the surface without pretty colors.

Color case hardening is a skilled process. Seim shows all sorts of fixtures, copper wire wraps, the ingredients used are well known, but the "secret sauce" used by successful case hardeners is on a need to know basis. Those eye popping Trunbull colors were achieved by hard work and experience with particular firearms.

If the alloy is known, the case hardener can whip up something, because he has done it before. But as Seim says, the post 1964 Win M1894's have a poor reputation because Winchester changed its alloys and did not tell anyone. Winchester was making these as cheaply as possible and had zero concerns about the wants of owners 50 to 60 years later.

I do believe all case hardening colors are delicate and the modern firearms I have that appear to be genuine color case hardening, there is a clear polymer coating over the case, to keep it from being worn off. I do not know enough about which modern firearms have bone/leather case, versus firearms that have surfaces created by other processes.

I was surprised to find that my H&R Topper has "real" case hardening, a cyanate salt solution was painted on prior to case hardening and this accounts for its colors. To some, that might not be real case hardening, but it is pretty.



This is my M1885 and the color picture is kind of fuzzy. I think Winchester/Miroku picked steels that produced pretty color case hardening colors. I have not seen a Trunbull M1885, so I don't know if the Trunbull colors are more vivid and eye popping. I have not tried to rub the case off so I can not speak about the durability.

Beautiful ORIGINAL case colors on Pre-War Marlin 39. This is the standard grade

Another original case hardened pre-war Marlin 39a... The pictures actually don't do the case color justice as it's better than the pictures show...

After posting photos of the case colors on the pretty little Marlin 39 recently, I perused my gun room and found more samples of nice case colors on a couple of shotguns and a Colt SA, as shown here...

No idea on the newer factory Winchesters, who's doing it or how long it lasts. I can tell by looking at them that it ain't Turnbull.

As to what's "real" and what ain't, I just about guarantee you that none of these new production guns are actually hardened. Turnbull pioneered the process by which authentic colors are imparted through a pseudo-authentic bone charcoal process but the part is not heated to the point where it actually hardens. This is how he's able to case color Ruger frames and other guns made from 4130/4140 and other through-hardened steels. I'd wager he's doing the same on most other modern guns, that only 1st generation Colt's and other turn of the century guns are actually hardened.

Pretty sure Navy Arms is using Turnbull's services on in-the-white new production Winchesters.

Cyanide color case hardening IS a traditional method for real color case hardening. Cyanide is used because of its high carbon content.

SunnySlopes said:

I'm sure it's the cheapest, fastest and easiest method possible in order to market the gun as "color case hardened."

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I highly doubt that. Miroku is not known for cutting corners.

Were it me (and it kinda sort is), I'd buy the gun and use it. If the finish wears in a manner that doesn't satisfy you, send it to Turnbull for recoloring. Their shop does fine work and the carbona blue has to be seen to be believed. Turnbull also clearcoats their case colors and that really prolongs their life. I have several out of his shop:

I have two guns finished the same way, done in Turnbull's carbona blue with fire blue accents and color case hammer/trigger. Along with ivory grips. A custom Ruger .500JRH:



.....and a Cimarron Open Top.



Here's a factory Ruger Bisley with Turnbull's case colors:



Along with a custom featuring the same treatment.



And a USFA.


Even the current Uberti guns have much improved colors. Uberti flat-top target in the center, USFA on the right. Older Uberti on the left.

CraigC, very nice collection of revolvers! Thanks for showing, we like eye candy!

Offfhand said:

After posting photos of the case colors on the pretty little Marlin 39 recently, I perused my gun room a found more samples of nice case colors on a couple of shotguns and a Colt SA, as shown here...View attachment 805519 View attachment 805520 View attachment 805521 View attachment 805522 View attachment 805523 View attachment 805524

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Nice H&H and RBL!