Redemption
Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2009
- Messages
- 15
Background : I earned myself an operating a motorboat with BAC over .08 in Indiana in July . I was on my pontoon idling in the idle zone. The kind CO nearby said my wake was too large and after a series of strange hand tests that he couldn't quite explain or do himself, the breathalyzer came out and I was whisked away to the local Sheriffs office for an 8 hour sit. My wife was left alone on the lake on the boat with no help. Yes drinking and operating anything is dumb, no flames needed. My wife told me later that, my lawyer who is also a friend, asked her when she called him from the boat. how does this even happen? Well, it does and it sucks.
I post bail but must sit for 8 hours. I go to court with a plea bargain already arranged. I plead up a charge from a class C misdemeanor of operating a motorboat with BAC over .08 to a class B misdemeanor of Public intoxication- endangers ones life, lessor included. No SR 22, no hiked insurance, no driving record. I receive 6 months non- reporting probation, 2 days credit for my sit. This is the only thing on my record other than a seat belt violation.
Here's where my confusion begins. I read through the standard Probation form I receive as I am signing away my 4th amendment rights for 6 months in the Probation office. The paper says I will not posses a firearm or other deadly weapon unless given permission from the Probation officer as directed. I ask the probation officer if I had just also signed away my 2nd amendment rights as well the 4th, which the paper clearly states I had just done? He states no. I ask him if I am prohibited from owning guns, do I have to turn in my LTCH and rent a U-haul to get them out of my house? He laughs and says no, everyone likes to shoot and hunt and that it is not a big deal, I don't have to get rid of anything. He does recommend that I don't carry open in public because if I am questioned by law enforcement, I will be detained and it will be a hassle. I finish paperwork and we shake hands. He says he has more important fish to fry then me, so behave and this is the last time he will probably see me. I am fine with that.
Four months later and just a week ago, I go to a gun show and see something I want. I fill out the 4473. They are very busy so I walk around for a while and come back and they tell me I am delayed. No biggy, I will pick it up in a few days if I don't hear anything negative. I have never been delayed except for the every single time hold for further review. I call and check 2 days later and a lady at the shop tells me it was denied. Of course, I get an instant sick feeling but in the back of my mind I figure probation was the reason.
I was busy with work the rest of the week but I did request a reason for the denial from the FBI. The reason comes back:
State prohibitive criteria based on a state statute, probation/parole/bond restriction, and/or a
protection order, which includes a prohibition from possessing or receiving a firearm.
Uggh!!! I will say on their behalf, that it only took an hour and a half for the FBI to notify by email after I requested the reason.
Sorry this has been long, but here are my ultimate questions to anyone that may know.
1. Will the NICS prohibition from buying firearms go away when my State probation ends, without me having to respond with an NICS appeal? Is there even anything to appeal? The probation officer told me I was not prohibited, but, obviously I was, and prohibited must just be the default standard for someone entered into the probation system in Indiana. It must default to this in Odyssey or whatever updates the NCIC or III. Do I need a letter from the PO saying I was not prohibited at the time? It will be long after 30 days before I could complete the transaction and I will just need a new NICS check anyway. So is it even worth it?
2. If you are NICS denied and it is for something that is going to expire, is it even advisable to appeal? Does it complicate it? I have read that all denials are permanent and I am now also on an Indiana list- the NDTF for 6 months. I don't want to be on this list. From what I read, this will always haunt me.
3. Should I just apply for the VAF and include this NTN on the form and see how it goes? I had planned on applying for the UPIN anyway.
4. Will the VAF fix this since it is something so uncomplicated and there is no charge or sentencing issue? Of course I will wait until I'm off probation and will submit the probation termination order.
I just want this to go away, and it could have been avoided had I known it would happen. My lawyer buddy doesn't know much in the way of firearm laws and tells me he doesn't want to learn. I don't need flamed for the PI or told I was dumb for trying to buy a gun on probation. I was told by the PO it was not a thing. I just need some insight from anyone who might know, now that I have this denial on my back. Again, sorry this was so long and it has been a few years since I have posted. Thank you.
I post bail but must sit for 8 hours. I go to court with a plea bargain already arranged. I plead up a charge from a class C misdemeanor of operating a motorboat with BAC over .08 to a class B misdemeanor of Public intoxication- endangers ones life, lessor included. No SR 22, no hiked insurance, no driving record. I receive 6 months non- reporting probation, 2 days credit for my sit. This is the only thing on my record other than a seat belt violation.
Here's where my confusion begins. I read through the standard Probation form I receive as I am signing away my 4th amendment rights for 6 months in the Probation office. The paper says I will not posses a firearm or other deadly weapon unless given permission from the Probation officer as directed. I ask the probation officer if I had just also signed away my 2nd amendment rights as well the 4th, which the paper clearly states I had just done? He states no. I ask him if I am prohibited from owning guns, do I have to turn in my LTCH and rent a U-haul to get them out of my house? He laughs and says no, everyone likes to shoot and hunt and that it is not a big deal, I don't have to get rid of anything. He does recommend that I don't carry open in public because if I am questioned by law enforcement, I will be detained and it will be a hassle. I finish paperwork and we shake hands. He says he has more important fish to fry then me, so behave and this is the last time he will probably see me. I am fine with that.
Four months later and just a week ago, I go to a gun show and see something I want. I fill out the 4473. They are very busy so I walk around for a while and come back and they tell me I am delayed. No biggy, I will pick it up in a few days if I don't hear anything negative. I have never been delayed except for the every single time hold for further review. I call and check 2 days later and a lady at the shop tells me it was denied. Of course, I get an instant sick feeling but in the back of my mind I figure probation was the reason.
I was busy with work the rest of the week but I did request a reason for the denial from the FBI. The reason comes back:
State prohibitive criteria based on a state statute, probation/parole/bond restriction, and/or a
protection order, which includes a prohibition from possessing or receiving a firearm.
Uggh!!! I will say on their behalf, that it only took an hour and a half for the FBI to notify by email after I requested the reason.
Sorry this has been long, but here are my ultimate questions to anyone that may know.
1. Will the NICS prohibition from buying firearms go away when my State probation ends, without me having to respond with an NICS appeal? Is there even anything to appeal? The probation officer told me I was not prohibited, but, obviously I was, and prohibited must just be the default standard for someone entered into the probation system in Indiana. It must default to this in Odyssey or whatever updates the NCIC or III. Do I need a letter from the PO saying I was not prohibited at the time? It will be long after 30 days before I could complete the transaction and I will just need a new NICS check anyway. So is it even worth it?
2. If you are NICS denied and it is for something that is going to expire, is it even advisable to appeal? Does it complicate it? I have read that all denials are permanent and I am now also on an Indiana list- the NDTF for 6 months. I don't want to be on this list. From what I read, this will always haunt me.
3. Should I just apply for the VAF and include this NTN on the form and see how it goes? I had planned on applying for the UPIN anyway.
4. Will the VAF fix this since it is something so uncomplicated and there is no charge or sentencing issue? Of course I will wait until I'm off probation and will submit the probation termination order.
I just want this to go away, and it could have been avoided had I known it would happen. My lawyer buddy doesn't know much in the way of firearm laws and tells me he doesn't want to learn. I don't need flamed for the PI or told I was dumb for trying to buy a gun on probation. I was told by the PO it was not a thing. I just need some insight from anyone who might know, now that I have this denial on my back. Again, sorry this was so long and it has been a few years since I have posted. Thank you.
