Miculek vs Bumpstock

they have proven he is faster them most full autos.

I did notice shooting starts at the 56 second mark. Slowed to .25 speed on youtube, it sure looks like the first several shots are singles.

Ok you pre-86 (correct year?) machinegun owners, can a pre86 full auto machinegun be manipulated via the shooters finger or hand technique to fire single rounds?

DoubleMag said:

I did notice shooting starts at the 56 second mark. Slowed to .25 speed on youtube, it sure looks like the first several shots are singles.

Ok you pre-86 (correct year?) machinegun owners, can a pre86 full auto machinegun be manipulated via the shooters finger or hand technique to fire single rounds?

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It depends on the gun. Many have a single shot selection. Most certainly an AR pattern rifle does.

Texas10mm said:

It depends on the gun. Many have a single shot selection. Most certainly an AR pattern rifle does.

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Agree it depends on the gun, but I've fired at least one full-auto that could fire single rounds via careful trigger control (i.e. not limited by a selector switch). As noted, many full autos also have selectors that put them in semi-auto 'mode.'

Good Ol' Boy

Always amazing to watch Jerry Miculek shooting so fast and so accurately!

Thanks for posting the video!

DoubleMag said:

can a pre86 full auto machinegun be manipulated via the shooters finger or hand technique to fire single rounds?

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My Dad told the story about having to shoot a 'Grease Gun' for his CO to prove proficiency.
The CO gave my Dad ten rounds and was to shoot at a target about 20yards away, just to prove he could use the weapon, not for accuracy. My Dad said he put single shots on the areas the CO pointed out. I guess those 'Grease Guns' shot pretty slow.
Dad couldn't hit a barn wall from inside with a 45, but was a machine on the trap range at home.

P5 Guy said:

My Dad told the story about having to shoot a 'Grease Gun' for his CO to prove proficiency.
The CO gave my Dad ten rounds and waste shoot at a target about 20yards away, just to prove he could use the weapon, not for accuracy. My Dad said he put single shots on the areas the CO pointed out. I guess those 'Grease Guns' shot pretty slow.
Dad couldn't hit a barn wall from inside with a 45, but was a machine on the trap range at home.

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Yes, depends on the ergonomics and rate of fire. Done single shots with several guns set to full auto. Easily, and well-aimed, not slapping to prove the point. Aim, fire, release: One shot. Which also is the reason many of these do not have a fire selector. Use any modicum of your training and the gun will fire one or two shots when you aim. Instantly have full auto if they are moving, behind cover, you need to lay done more fire for other reasons.

AR set to automatic my normal press-release cycle is usually 2, sometimes three rounds. Hard to do 1.

TMP is one of the few that's so fast it's impossible for me to get 1 shot off at all.

P5 Guy

My Dad shot Expert in Basic but truth be told he never liked carrying the M1. Before a long field exercise (like a little 10 mile hike), he would trade a pack of cigarettes with one of the cooks so he could carry their M1 Carbine instead! He did have a chance to shoot the M3 Grease Gun and did very well with it on a combat course with hidden targets. The Grease Gun had such a slow rate of fire it was fairly easy to get off single shots with a bit of a light trigger action.

can a pre86 full auto machinegun be manipulated via the shooters finger or hand technique to fire single rounds?

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Yes. I've done it with a friend's M14, and another friend's M4.

And a loong time ago, did it with an M16.

No rear sight on the bump stock carbine?

About 10 years ago I had a CETME that had the trigger pack worked on by a guy that specialized in them and could bump Fire it from the shoulder and have all 20 cases in an arc in the air. Beautiful trigger on it, perfectly safe, and just a fun gun to shoot. Not bad for a semi.

bannockburn said:

P5 Guy

My Dad shot Expert in Basic but truth be told he never liked carrying the M1. Before a long field exercise (like a little 10 mile hike), he would trade a pack of cigarettes with one of the cooks so he could carry their M1 Carbine instead! He did have a chance to shoot the M3 Grease Gun and did very well with it on a combat course with hidden targets. The Grease Gun had such a slow rate of fire it was fairly easy to get off single shots with a bit of a light trigger action.

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My Dad got the grease gun in Italy in late 44 while driving a wrecker to haul in busted tanks, halftracks and such before being sent to an airbase to be an armorer for P51s

No rear sight on the bump stock carbine?

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Would it have made any difference? Would have been better if he spent some time figuring out how to get it to run first but the sliding back and forth rifle in the stock due to recoil, while shoving the rifle forward with your support arm, does go against everything learn for 3 gun or pretty much everything else for that matter.

Yeah. Would have been better to have someone who is used to bump stock vs Miculek. He'd still win most likely in speed and definitely in accuracy and it makes a much better argument.

Mark

Citadel99 said:

Yeah. Would have been better to have someone who is used to bump stock vs Miculek. He'd still win most likely in speed and definitely in accuracy and it makes a much better argument.

Mark

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I agree that would have been a good addition, but I actually found the fact that an acknowledged firearms master couldn't instantly turn the bump stock into a 'death machine' was a good thing to establish. Yes, he got some bursts of "auto" fire - but he also appeared to have several malfunctions. Which just confirms how insane the BATFE's case is (that bump stocks were/are exceptionally dangerous).

100%. He could have tried, acknowledged that for a trained shooter for real world applications, the mechanism is tough to run efficiently, and then competed against someone who could work it well. Best of all angles!

I was just happy to watch him shoot...

Mark

Gridley said:

Agree it depends on the gun, but I've fired at least one full-auto that could fire single rounds via careful trigger control (i.e. not limited by a selector switch). As noted, many full autos also have selectors that put them in semi-auto 'mode.'

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The Mp5 series guns I was issued had 1-3-auto selectors.

We had to show trigger control proficiency with Mp5 and Mp5k by single-shooting a series of threat/no threat targets with the selector in full auto to carry those on protection details. Not always easy to do on the clock with 900 rpm fire rates on the k!

Stay safe!

I used to be able to get my M-60 to fire single shots pretty easily.

What happens if you put a bump stock on a real machine gun? Do they cancel out and make it single shot? I wonder if it has ever been done...

How about this guy? No bump stock needed.
It doesn't work well with the AK, but it works like a champ with the AR.
Of course they're probably going to try and ban his finger now or something.

IIRC correctly the MG34 had a trigger that allowed for either single shot or automatic, depending on whether you pulled on the lower part or the upper part of the trigger. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the M2 yet, very easy to single shot the Ma Deuce.

ScrapMetalSlug said:

What happens if you put a bump stock on a real machine gun? Do they cancel out and make it single shot? I wonder if it has ever been done...

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Don’t know, real machineguns, even some people would think would be uncontrollable are controlled vs what you could accomplish with a bump stock,