BSA1
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Does Virginia require AR's to be registered?
Building a display (non-gun) AR-15
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badkarmamib
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Statewide, no. Some locations have prohibitions against carrying loaded with more than 20 rounds, but that is it, AFAIK.
AlexanderA
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No, but Virginia has a weird law (passed after the Kansi shooting at the CIA) that requires citizenship (or permanent residence) for the purchase of an "assault weapon." But an "assault weapon," for this purpose, is defined as a gun equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine capable of holding more than 20 rounds, equipped with a folding stock, or "designed to accommodate a silencer." Dealers got around this, in questionable cases, simply by selling the gun without a magazine. It's never been clarified whether merely having a threaded barrel makes a gun "designed to accommodate a silencer." Nor whether a telescoping stock is a "folding stock." This whole thing is more or less a dead letter. At one time, I had to show my passport to buy a stripped lower receiver (because of a misinterpretation by certain dealers, and an abundance of caution on their part), but no longer. The law is still on the books.
Actual machine guns have to be registered with the State Police. (Virginia has one of the highest rates of per capita machine gun ownership in the country.)
AlexanderA
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That's what the official guidance from the ATF says, and what the "80%" industry is going by. However, it seems to me that drilling just the transverse hole for the selector would be fine, since the top of the lower receiver would remain solid, and the hammer/trigger could not be installed. The ATF has a long history of making pronouncements, and then backing away from them. For example, a full-auto bolt carrier used to be a no-no, but then Colt pulled some strings and now full-auto bolt carriers are more or less standard on new guns. I seriously doubt that the ATF would make an issue of this for an individual.
Interesting concept. It might be hard to weld a steel trigger to a normal aluminum trigger guard. Maybe silver solder would work.
Varminterror
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Of note:Tactical Machining sells “80%” lowers with the FCG inlet partially cut. They mill the rear takedown pin boss mortise into the lower. If removing any metal from the FCG inlet constitutes manufacturing of a firearm, they could not sell these as non-firearm blanks.
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Varminterror
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Please provide this direct citation, with copy of their determination.
I made no claims; just gave a word of caution and my understanding (stated as such)
Which is why I specified welding the trigger to a STEEL trigger guard. I know milspec is aluminum but steel can be found or made.
. Once again I made no claims beyond my own understanding and don’t like feeling bullied to do someone else’s homework for them... but since I seem to be trapped:
Five minutes on google found this.
For ATF ruling 2010-10 (edit: gave wrong ref. Correct doc is atf ruling 2015-1
For example, in an AR-type weapon, “machining or other manufacturing process” would include any activity that creates a fire- control-cavity as designed. Although such an article may be classified as a “receiver” when it is indexed, machining or other manufacturing process takes place to create a receiver when material is actually removed from the cavity so that the fire-control-components may actually be installed. “”
Drilling a selector hole would definitely remove material from the FC cavity as well as being an installed component of the FCG. Indexed is elsewhere defined as spotting the pin holes... remember a while back some companies were trying to spot the trigger/hammer/selector holes with just a dimple so that they could be drilled without a jig? The atf shut that down declaring that the pins are part of the FCG and the cavity extends out to the end of the pins’ location thus pre spotting/ dumpling the holes constituted material removed from the FCG cavity and thus beyond 80% and a firearm even with no milling of the pocket.
Drilling a complete selector hole is far beyond dimpling.
You brought up tactical machining ( and for that matter many others) now cutting out the rear takedown lug pocket... that is because no part of the FCG resides there and it has a distinct purpose though it is contiguous with the FCG pocket it is not in fact part of it. Manufacturers have been pushing the ATF to the limits for years on anything they can get away with (good for them ) and if there was one single cut more they could take to get an edge on their competitors they would.
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Varminterror
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Manufacturers have had the ability to skip the machining step and still sell product... don’t confuse that with any stipulation the ATF has put upon them.
AlexanderA
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AlexanderA
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Not only that, but they cut the hole for the selector detent & spring, which is more difficult than drilling the hole for the selector itself.
I think we're getting away from the fact that, once the receiver is in the hands of the end user, he can (in most states) do anything to it up to and including making it into a fully functional gun. Where he chooses to stop is purely up to him. Drilling the selector hole won't get him into trouble, although it might get the seller into trouble if the seller does it.
Varminterror
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Their photos are theirs, and the “solid” indications they make are not included in the ATF FAQ section. The rest of their “article” is nothing more than a copy paste job from the FAQ page.
Varminterror
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@bluejeans - here’s ATF Rul. 2010-10,
Nowhere within this document does it mention AR-15’s, nor machining limitations for fire control group inlets.
You’re grasping to defend an unsupported claim, or trying to deceive. Not sure which.
ATF Ruling 2010-10
Nowhere within this document does it mention AR-15’s, nor machining limitations for fire control group inlets.
You’re grasping to defend an unsupported claim, or trying to deceive. Not sure which.
ATF Ruling 2010-10
This whole debate is beside the point as the OP clarified that he does not need to keep it a non firearm... he is free to leave his firearm in whatever inoperable condition he chooses.
It’s not about the complexity of the cut it’s a matter of whether it has been deemed part of the FCG... rear takedown lug and selector detent are not... the 3 holes in the side and the pocket in the middle are.
Varminterror
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As it is, this was my statement in the second response to this thread.
The whole thing has been much ado about nothing.
I apologize for giving the wrong number... 2012-10 was referenced near what I was reading and I assumed it was the number... the true doc is atf 2015-1. https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download You’ll see it is talking specifically about procedures to an ar15 and the portion I quoted at the bottom of page 3
Varminterror I’m not sure why you’re being so antagonist about this or suggesting I have the intent to deceive.. I don’t appreciate it at all.
WestKentucky
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Trigger... your thinking about it the wrong way. If you want to leave the 80% fully intact then all you have to do is take a piece of delrin and a trigger guard piece, fashion a faux trigger from the delrin, affix it by epoxy or whatever onto the trigger guard, and install said trigger guard. 80% remains untouched, still unquestionably a non-gun.
Doc7
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Don’t you think these hoplophobes you are referring to (non gun people who want to hold a fake gun before a real one) would just take it at face value when you tell them “this isn’t a function rifle” when you hand them a rifle that has no Bolt in it? Then they can still manipulate the trigger, selector, and the charging handle. Just remove bolt from BCG. A person truly as afraid of guns as your referring to would be just as likely to be comfortable with this object you hand them as they would be with a realistic looking dummy made from real AR parts.
Varminterror
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Been biting my tongue on this one, trying to play nice...
It’d be easier to lie to them and tell them a fully functioning rifle isn’t functional.
I’ve been a firearms instructor for 20yrs, and plainly - if a person is of the caliber of mind such holding a “neutered” non-firearm which is otherwise identical to a functional forearm would mark a significant change in comfort and tolerance, they likely should not be holding any firearm. Not everyone SHOULD handle firearms.
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