redneck2
Member
So.....what do they do that transforms it from a 1 1/2” to sub 1/2” rifle?
What's the most accurate production 22 LR rifle produced today?
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ColtPythonElite
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We have heard about one that shoots well after some tinkering. The question is do all or at least the majority do as well?
ColtPythonElite
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Maybe the OP will buy him one and a bicycle innertube and report back.
Rev. 8/18/2001
Before bedding, I recommend that the barrel be epoxied to the receiver to eliminate accuracy robbing movement. To do that, remove the barrel from the receiver, clean all contact points with alcohol, and apply a stud-mounting air setting epoxy liquid such as Permetex stud mount, red Locktite, or bedding epoxy to the barrel extension that enters the receiver. Re-assemble, using the cap screws and dovetail block. The barrel mounting dovetail block should also be epoxied. That should eliminate movement that destroys accuracy. While you're at it, Locktite the scope mount bases and screws.
1. The barrel channel is the most important area. The first 3 to 4 inches of barrel starting just beyond the barrel attaching screwsshould be bedded under the barrel and up to about 1/8" of the top of forend. After the bedding material is set, this area should be the primary pressure point as the action screw is tightened.
2. The barrel can be free-floated the rest of the way toward the end of the forend, or (after the initial bedding job) a pad of bedding can be added within 1 1/2" of the forend tip with about 10 pounds of upward pressure on the barrel. A small wedge can be made to fit between the barrel and end of the barrel channel. Clamp the forend in a vise and using a fish Deliar scale pull upward on the barrel near the forend until the 8-10 lbs is achieved, then push the wedge in to hold it in place. Tape the wedge to the barrel so it can hold the gap at the proper amount as the bedding pad sets up. Be sure to check that the barrel is centered in the channel. If making a new stock wait until the forend pad is installed before establishing final clearance of barrel to sides of barrel channel, since the barrel will be somewhat higher in the stock as it approaches the forend tip.
3. When free-floating the barrel in the forend, be sure to keep all wood well away from the metal... 1/16" is not too much. People think that a barrel is free-floating if you can force a dollar bill between the barrel and bedding. That's not enough for two reasons: first, because barrels vibrate when fired, and second, because wood swells and warps with humidity. Poor bedding and inadequate free-floating generally results in diagonal stringing.
4. The next area to be concerned about is the action screw and barrel lug area. This area should not be tightly bedded. Just be sure to leave a small pad of wood, perhaps along the front edge of the magazine well opening to hold the action at the proper height during bedding. I like the barrel to become the centering device because it is rounded and will self-center as the action screw is tightened. Its also important that pressure be applied to the barrel to make its vibration consistent. I basically take my Dremel tool and router bit to remove about 3/32" everywhere the metal comes in close contact with the wood, but only about 1/16 at the edges of openings such as the top of the forend and around the action. Then, before bedding, I place two layers of masking tape over the barrel bottom of the barrel attaching block and matching receiver casting (sides and bottom). Then I make an "x" with a knife over the action screw hole to allow the screw to enter the receiver. When the tape is removed after bedding, it assures that the barrel receives the greatest pressure when the action screw is tightened.
5. Wood inside the receiver area of the stock is routed lightly to roughen it to better accept the bedding material. The bottom edge of the receiver should have about 3/32" of bedding, but leave a little pad of wood at the rear bottom to hold the receiver at the right height while bedding.
6. The rear of the action is a special place. The top 1/2" must not be bedded to allow the action to pivot upward when removed. A gap of about 1/16" is usually present from the factory. Just place some modeling clay or electrical duct seal prior to bedding to prevent the bedding material from squeezing upward into that area. I usually pull it out with a wire about the size of a paper clip before trying to get the action out of the stock. The bottom 1/2" or so at the rear of the receiver is routed out about 1/8" to give a solid recoil pad. Bedding the sides and rear of the receiver is different from most recommendations. (A lot of people mostly bed the barrel tightly in bedding compound, sometimes using an additional stock bolt in the forend tip, then let the receiver float free. They also use a cantilever scope mount attached to the barrel. Some also make a large bedding block that may surround the barrel and bed it into the stock as the only contact point. That supposedly works too, but I haven't done it.)
7. The rear of the trigger guard should also be bedded to stabilize the trigger assembly in the receiver as the pins get loose from assembly/disassembly over time. Rout out about 1/8" just behind the trigger assembly and around the radius of the metal. Keeping the assembly in perfect alignment with the receiver is said to promote consistent firing pin strikes.
8. The action screw area is important. The ideal method is to install an aluminum pillar from the brass escutcheon just short of the receiver. Another way is to drill out the hole to allow about 3/32" of bedding material around, but not touching the screw! The screw needs to have a heavy coat of release compound, and sometimes I place a soda straw around it to keep bedding material out of the threads, etc. This screw is smaller just below the threads to allow it to remain in the stock when unscrewed from the receiver. That poses a problem when bedding because bedding can get into the area and keep the screw from backing out of the metal. The straw works pretty well and if left a little long will crush as the screw is tightened. After removing the action from the stock, drill out the area around the screw hole to eliminate any contact between the screw and stock except at the escutcheon. Screw contact with the stock hole is a destroyer of accuracy, especially in hard-recoiling guns.
9. The next thing to consider is use of modeling clay or duct seal. It should be placed in every notch or hole in the receiver that would allow bedding to lock the action to the stock. Areas around the barrel lug, barrel cap screw ends, etc. Also, use masking tape or clay to seal openings where the bedding material can find its way into working parts of the trigger, etc. The area where the front of the magazine well fits against its opening is important to place the clay, because that is a critical pivot area that must not receive bedding or the action cant pivot upward to be removed. Also, you can place a dam of clay in the barrel channel to keep the bedding material from running toward the muzzle.
10. Bedding material choice has some importance. Some people swear by Devcon. I like Brownells Acraglas, but add some flock that I cut up (into 1/4" squares about 1/8" thick) with scissors from fiberglass batt insulation. Brownells also has good release agent. Apply two coats to all metal parts that could come in contact with the bedding material, including the exposed areas above the stock. Place masking tape over the stock adjacent to the openings. After adding a small amount of dye to color the bedding, and adding in the glass flock from the kit, I add some of my flock to thicken the mixture a little to keep it from running out of the action area. Its still a little runny, though, to allow good absorption into the wood. That strengthens the bond and toughens the wood. Follow Brownells instructions very carefully. Uncured Acraglas can be removed from the outside stock and metal surfaces with white vinegar on a cloth.
11. Place the bedding material into the stock recesses to allow for some squeeze-out, but don't worry if there are a few air holes. Unless they are under the barrel or behind the receiver, they probably wont matter in a light-recoiling gun.
12. After allowing the bedding to set up so its not tacky to the touch, say about 4 hours, I loosen the action screw to make sure I can remove it and check to see if the bedding material is hard enough to keep from deforming if the action is removed. If not, just re-tighten the screw. If it is, remove the screw and rap the bottom of the barrel near the end of the forend a few times with a rubber hammer or piece of soft pine to break the seal. Its better to remove the barreled action too soon than too late. It can get "glued in" if you wait too long.
13. After removing the action from the stock, the work is not completed. I like to finish off the material uniformly at the end of the barrel pad by routing a clean end. Next I sand the material to relieve barrel bedding contact down about 1/4" from the top of the forend. Its the bottom third of the barrel that should be cradled anyway. Any contact at the top of the barrel channel can potentially cause uneven return to battery.
14. Rout or drill out the screw hole to keep the screw from contacting the stock except at the bottom. Rout areas of contact around the very front of the receiver. Remember the barrel is the centering device in that area, and a small gap is needed between the barrel lug assembly and the stock. I really don't know if that would cause major detriment to accuracy, but feel that the rounded barrel and its strong pressure in its stock receptacle are the keys to long-term accuracy.
15. Use the router or a wood rasp to clean up non-functional bits of bedding material squeezed out near the receiver recess, etc.
16. After cleaning up the metal parts, removing clay, masking tape, and cleaning off release compound (Hoppes #9 works good for removing release compound), re-assemble the rifle and tighten the action screw fairly tight but dont crunch it because the bedding is still a little soft. Dont shoot the rifle for another 24 hours. Take the action out of the stockbefore going to the range and check everything one more time, be sure there are no small chips or anything that will keep the action and barrel from mating perfectly with the stock. It doesn't hurt to apply a little car wax to the barrel bedding at this point and reassemble, tightening the action screw fairly tight.
17. Try shooting with the barrel free-floating, but if it doesn't shoot the way you like, try the forend tip pressure point discussed previously.
John Picher
Before bedding, I recommend that the barrel be epoxied to the receiver to eliminate accuracy robbing movement. To do that, remove the barrel from the receiver, clean all contact points with alcohol, and apply a stud-mounting air setting epoxy liquid such as Permetex stud mount, red Locktite, or bedding epoxy to the barrel extension that enters the receiver. Re-assemble, using the cap screws and dovetail block. The barrel mounting dovetail block should also be epoxied. That should eliminate movement that destroys accuracy. While you're at it, Locktite the scope mount bases and screws.
1. The barrel channel is the most important area. The first 3 to 4 inches of barrel starting just beyond the barrel attaching screwsshould be bedded under the barrel and up to about 1/8" of the top of forend. After the bedding material is set, this area should be the primary pressure point as the action screw is tightened.
2. The barrel can be free-floated the rest of the way toward the end of the forend, or (after the initial bedding job) a pad of bedding can be added within 1 1/2" of the forend tip with about 10 pounds of upward pressure on the barrel. A small wedge can be made to fit between the barrel and end of the barrel channel. Clamp the forend in a vise and using a fish Deliar scale pull upward on the barrel near the forend until the 8-10 lbs is achieved, then push the wedge in to hold it in place. Tape the wedge to the barrel so it can hold the gap at the proper amount as the bedding pad sets up. Be sure to check that the barrel is centered in the channel. If making a new stock wait until the forend pad is installed before establishing final clearance of barrel to sides of barrel channel, since the barrel will be somewhat higher in the stock as it approaches the forend tip.
3. When free-floating the barrel in the forend, be sure to keep all wood well away from the metal... 1/16" is not too much. People think that a barrel is free-floating if you can force a dollar bill between the barrel and bedding. That's not enough for two reasons: first, because barrels vibrate when fired, and second, because wood swells and warps with humidity. Poor bedding and inadequate free-floating generally results in diagonal stringing.
4. The next area to be concerned about is the action screw and barrel lug area. This area should not be tightly bedded. Just be sure to leave a small pad of wood, perhaps along the front edge of the magazine well opening to hold the action at the proper height during bedding. I like the barrel to become the centering device because it is rounded and will self-center as the action screw is tightened. Its also important that pressure be applied to the barrel to make its vibration consistent. I basically take my Dremel tool and router bit to remove about 3/32" everywhere the metal comes in close contact with the wood, but only about 1/16 at the edges of openings such as the top of the forend and around the action. Then, before bedding, I place two layers of masking tape over the barrel bottom of the barrel attaching block and matching receiver casting (sides and bottom). Then I make an "x" with a knife over the action screw hole to allow the screw to enter the receiver. When the tape is removed after bedding, it assures that the barrel receives the greatest pressure when the action screw is tightened.
5. Wood inside the receiver area of the stock is routed lightly to roughen it to better accept the bedding material. The bottom edge of the receiver should have about 3/32" of bedding, but leave a little pad of wood at the rear bottom to hold the receiver at the right height while bedding.
6. The rear of the action is a special place. The top 1/2" must not be bedded to allow the action to pivot upward when removed. A gap of about 1/16" is usually present from the factory. Just place some modeling clay or electrical duct seal prior to bedding to prevent the bedding material from squeezing upward into that area. I usually pull it out with a wire about the size of a paper clip before trying to get the action out of the stock. The bottom 1/2" or so at the rear of the receiver is routed out about 1/8" to give a solid recoil pad. Bedding the sides and rear of the receiver is different from most recommendations. (A lot of people mostly bed the barrel tightly in bedding compound, sometimes using an additional stock bolt in the forend tip, then let the receiver float free. They also use a cantilever scope mount attached to the barrel. Some also make a large bedding block that may surround the barrel and bed it into the stock as the only contact point. That supposedly works too, but I haven't done it.)
7. The rear of the trigger guard should also be bedded to stabilize the trigger assembly in the receiver as the pins get loose from assembly/disassembly over time. Rout out about 1/8" just behind the trigger assembly and around the radius of the metal. Keeping the assembly in perfect alignment with the receiver is said to promote consistent firing pin strikes.
8. The action screw area is important. The ideal method is to install an aluminum pillar from the brass escutcheon just short of the receiver. Another way is to drill out the hole to allow about 3/32" of bedding material around, but not touching the screw! The screw needs to have a heavy coat of release compound, and sometimes I place a soda straw around it to keep bedding material out of the threads, etc. This screw is smaller just below the threads to allow it to remain in the stock when unscrewed from the receiver. That poses a problem when bedding because bedding can get into the area and keep the screw from backing out of the metal. The straw works pretty well and if left a little long will crush as the screw is tightened. After removing the action from the stock, drill out the area around the screw hole to eliminate any contact between the screw and stock except at the escutcheon. Screw contact with the stock hole is a destroyer of accuracy, especially in hard-recoiling guns.
9. The next thing to consider is use of modeling clay or duct seal. It should be placed in every notch or hole in the receiver that would allow bedding to lock the action to the stock. Areas around the barrel lug, barrel cap screw ends, etc. Also, use masking tape or clay to seal openings where the bedding material can find its way into working parts of the trigger, etc. The area where the front of the magazine well fits against its opening is important to place the clay, because that is a critical pivot area that must not receive bedding or the action cant pivot upward to be removed. Also, you can place a dam of clay in the barrel channel to keep the bedding material from running toward the muzzle.
10. Bedding material choice has some importance. Some people swear by Devcon. I like Brownells Acraglas, but add some flock that I cut up (into 1/4" squares about 1/8" thick) with scissors from fiberglass batt insulation. Brownells also has good release agent. Apply two coats to all metal parts that could come in contact with the bedding material, including the exposed areas above the stock. Place masking tape over the stock adjacent to the openings. After adding a small amount of dye to color the bedding, and adding in the glass flock from the kit, I add some of my flock to thicken the mixture a little to keep it from running out of the action area. Its still a little runny, though, to allow good absorption into the wood. That strengthens the bond and toughens the wood. Follow Brownells instructions very carefully. Uncured Acraglas can be removed from the outside stock and metal surfaces with white vinegar on a cloth.
11. Place the bedding material into the stock recesses to allow for some squeeze-out, but don't worry if there are a few air holes. Unless they are under the barrel or behind the receiver, they probably wont matter in a light-recoiling gun.
12. After allowing the bedding to set up so its not tacky to the touch, say about 4 hours, I loosen the action screw to make sure I can remove it and check to see if the bedding material is hard enough to keep from deforming if the action is removed. If not, just re-tighten the screw. If it is, remove the screw and rap the bottom of the barrel near the end of the forend a few times with a rubber hammer or piece of soft pine to break the seal. Its better to remove the barreled action too soon than too late. It can get "glued in" if you wait too long.
13. After removing the action from the stock, the work is not completed. I like to finish off the material uniformly at the end of the barrel pad by routing a clean end. Next I sand the material to relieve barrel bedding contact down about 1/4" from the top of the forend. Its the bottom third of the barrel that should be cradled anyway. Any contact at the top of the barrel channel can potentially cause uneven return to battery.
14. Rout or drill out the screw hole to keep the screw from contacting the stock except at the bottom. Rout areas of contact around the very front of the receiver. Remember the barrel is the centering device in that area, and a small gap is needed between the barrel lug assembly and the stock. I really don't know if that would cause major detriment to accuracy, but feel that the rounded barrel and its strong pressure in its stock receptacle are the keys to long-term accuracy.
15. Use the router or a wood rasp to clean up non-functional bits of bedding material squeezed out near the receiver recess, etc.
16. After cleaning up the metal parts, removing clay, masking tape, and cleaning off release compound (Hoppes #9 works good for removing release compound), re-assemble the rifle and tighten the action screw fairly tight but dont crunch it because the bedding is still a little soft. Dont shoot the rifle for another 24 hours. Take the action out of the stockbefore going to the range and check everything one more time, be sure there are no small chips or anything that will keep the action and barrel from mating perfectly with the stock. It doesn't hurt to apply a little car wax to the barrel bedding at this point and reassemble, tightening the action screw fairly tight.
17. Try shooting with the barrel free-floating, but if it doesn't shoot the way you like, try the forend tip pressure point discussed previously.
John Picher
Reloadron
Contributing Member
John. thank you for sharing an extremely good write up as to bedding technique. Well written and easy to follow.
Thanks
Ron
Thanks
Ron
The above article didn't discuss the trigger/action work, but that's another article and I'll look for the information, but it involves firing pin work, bolt face milling, trigger improvements, cocking piece improvement to eliminate first-shot flyers, and extractor tuning.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
John, your post #83 as to bedding techniques or how to really covers well beyond 22 rimfires as likely would trigger work and bolt lapping. Maybe we could get Walkalong or another friendly moderator to move a copy to somewhere under the sticky notes.
Ron
Ron
Charlie Martinez
Member
My old Mossberg 46M(b) is an incredible machine. Great adjustable trigger & capable of putting a lot of shots into a small space at 100 yards.
I want a semi auto but I doubt I'll find anything that will outshoot my Mossberg
I want a semi auto but I doubt I'll find anything that will outshoot my Mossberg
It turns out that I had a thread in Gunsmithing that had been made a "Sticky", so I added a link there.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/a-collection-of-excellent-threads.783269/
.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Thanks Walkalong I just saw it as Good Stuff. 
Ron
Ron
Mowgli Terry
Member
I didn't keep count but CZ 452 and CZ455, mainly the former, kept showing up here. On another forum a pilgrim stated that his German made big ticket sporter would shoot circles around a CZ. I asked myself how big were those circles? It's possible to by four or five CZ's for the price of the German gun.
Also SV CCI also came up frequently. It's hard to beat for the money. Having had tried several brands continue to return to the CCI.
I'm taking my BSEV Savage Mark II out to shoot some thumb tacks at 50 yards. From all reports these Mark II rifles give good accuracy. The BSEV is near to top end of the money in our discussion. This rifle will shoot along with but not beat the other rifle in use here. That rifle and older CZ 452 "Trainer." That CZ is a wonderment. The Savage was second hand and a bargain. This Savage rifle does not warm the heart of conservatives with the Buck Rodgers stock but it shoots good. Can the most accurate be named. Don't think so without some hard core testing.
Addendum: Are we talking about store bought rifles or DIY projects. :>)
Also SV CCI also came up frequently. It's hard to beat for the money. Having had tried several brands continue to return to the CCI.
I'm taking my BSEV Savage Mark II out to shoot some thumb tacks at 50 yards. From all reports these Mark II rifles give good accuracy. The BSEV is near to top end of the money in our discussion. This rifle will shoot along with but not beat the other rifle in use here. That rifle and older CZ 452 "Trainer." That CZ is a wonderment. The Savage was second hand and a bargain. This Savage rifle does not warm the heart of conservatives with the Buck Rodgers stock but it shoots good. Can the most accurate be named. Don't think so without some hard core testing.
Addendum: Are we talking about store bought rifles or DIY projects. :>)
Last edited:
d2wing
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,415
I believe we were talking about of the shelf mass production rifles. But learning about accurizing one you own is always a good thing. While I endorse CZ rifles as a proven commodity I have read that Tikka T1 rifles are more accurate by owners but That doesn't meet my standard of proven in competition. If I were to buy a ,22 rifle today I would give a real hard look at the Tikka.
Mustangowner
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2019
- Messages
- 26
I don't have experience with CZ rimfires, but I don't doubt they're outstanding, the ones available around here run very close to the $500 mark though. I actually really like my Marlin XT22M, it shoots Super X and Federal FMJ into an inch at 100 yards, less if there's no wind, so I imagine a regular .22 LR could do even better shooting match ammo.
Be sure you follow PICHER's advice on the BEDDING info.
I got a beautiful custom 1903 Springfield which was a hand me down from my Dad who got it from a line
of fellow law enforcement officers who loved it's look but it wouldn't shoot a group worth a crap.
I tried it myself & same results.
I dismantled it & saw that underneath all that beauty was an awful Glass Bedding job. So being somewhat
of a mischief gun fixer not a gunsmith, I gently ground out the bedding, & without having any Idea how to
fix it I just floated the barrel & after some adjustments it will shoot under 1" easily at 100 yards.
Bedding really does the job, just do it right.
I got a beautiful custom 1903 Springfield which was a hand me down from my Dad who got it from a line
of fellow law enforcement officers who loved it's look but it wouldn't shoot a group worth a crap.
I tried it myself & same results.
I dismantled it & saw that underneath all that beauty was an awful Glass Bedding job. So being somewhat
of a mischief gun fixer not a gunsmith, I gently ground out the bedding, & without having any Idea how to
fix it I just floated the barrel & after some adjustments it will shoot under 1" easily at 100 yards.
Bedding really does the job, just do it right.
If that's a group at 100 yards, it's very good. If fifty yards, it's still good!
Mustangowner
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2019
- Messages
- 26
Thank you, that is 100 yards with a 3-5mph 10-2 o'clock wind and a fixed 4x32 scope. The crosshairs are nearly as thick as the cross target at that range which probably helped me as far as aiming at the exact same spot for two magazines.
When I shot Rimfire Benchrest, I never shot my .22LR match rifles at 100 yards because we competed at 50. There are too many variables at 100 yards and I didn't want to waste my VERY expensive match ammo on folly. Our club's 100 yard range is also quite windy most of the time.
I still don't shoot my .22LR sporters at 100 very often, but have shot both my .22 WMR and .17 HMR, because I expect to use them on varmints to at least 100 yards and have shot gongs at 200 meters with the .17 HMR. Considering that the .17 HMR is not match ammo, I'm pleased that it groups 1" or a bit better at 100 yards, but it also throws a flyer out once in a while. It will kill anything I'd shoot out to about 150 yards without much vertical hold-off and that's what I like about the cartridge.
I still don't shoot my .22LR sporters at 100 very often, but have shot both my .22 WMR and .17 HMR, because I expect to use them on varmints to at least 100 yards and have shot gongs at 200 meters with the .17 HMR. Considering that the .17 HMR is not match ammo, I'm pleased that it groups 1" or a bit better at 100 yards, but it also throws a flyer out once in a while. It will kill anything I'd shoot out to about 150 yards without much vertical hold-off and that's what I like about the cartridge.
Poper
Member
I would be interested in the cocking piece improvement. I have a buddy that has the first-shot flyer issue with his Browning T-Bolt. It's driving him nuts.
I don't think the Ruger and Browning T-Bolt first-shot flyers are closely related. The Ruger is subject to having the cocking piece bind the firing pin unless it's ground or filed to allow it to move freely in its slot, because there's a groove in it that straddles the firing pin and working the bolt with it to fire the first shot has a tendency to bind the pin somewhat.
When it comes to a bolt-action, It's more likely that a fully-loaded magazine may push upward on the bolt and cause the firing pin to hit higher on the case rim, where there is greater resistance to firing pin strikes and less priming compound, resulting in somewhat poorer ignition. To test the theory, single-load the chamber without using the magazine. Then, with only a couple of rounds in the magazine, then a full magazine.
Without examining the rifle, I can't figure out what could be done to eliminate the condition.
When it comes to a bolt-action, It's more likely that a fully-loaded magazine may push upward on the bolt and cause the firing pin to hit higher on the case rim, where there is greater resistance to firing pin strikes and less priming compound, resulting in somewhat poorer ignition. To test the theory, single-load the chamber without using the magazine. Then, with only a couple of rounds in the magazine, then a full magazine.
Without examining the rifle, I can't figure out what could be done to eliminate the condition.
Regarding the first shot flyer with the T-Bolt: If the magazine first round presses upward on the bolt, it could be causing the firing pin nose to hit the bend of rims, reducing impact to the firing compound, situated a bit closer to the center of the casehead. Consider loading one fewer round in the magazine and see if it makes a difference. If it does and your buddy wants to maintain full-magazine use, think about grinding that part of the firing pin that hits the rim edge, so the remaining portion of the pin tip can do its job, hitting harder where more of the primer powder is located and where the strike is in line with the case body that provides the "anvil" for the pin strike.
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