Optimum Bullet Weight, 357 Self Defense

Defensive performance standards are not based on bullet weight alone. You'll want to consider the design and performance of the bullet as a whole. The most widely accepted performance standard is the 4-layer denim and calibrated gelatin block test, but this test doesn't have a unanimous consensus. Still, one would only deviate from it for some kind of rationale.

Based on this test, you can achieve good performance with 125, 135, 140, and 158 grain bullets, and possibly others. The 125 grain bullets often require more velocity to achieve sufficient penetration. That velocity is easily obtained from the .357 cartridge and a 4" barrel, but beware that high velocity with some bullet designs results in low penetration. The bullet construction has to have sufficient integrity not to blow apart at high velocity. On the other hand, heavier bullets of 158 grains generally tend to penetrate very well even at lower velocities but may fail to expand. If expansion is also desired, then it's a matter of balancing velocity, weight, expansion, and recoil.

If you want some specific suggestions: Barnes 125 grain XPB aka TAC-XP is good if you drive it to 1300fps or more. Remington 125 gr. Golden Sabers at 1100fps. Speer 125 and 135 grain Gold Dot work well at 1400 fps. Barnes 140 gr. XPB is good from 1200fps and up. Hornady FTX is good at 1300 fps or more. Hornady 158 gr. XTP at 1300 fps. Remington 158 gr. Semi-jacketed hollowpoints are good at 1200fps and up.

You'll notice that some bullets take more weight and velocity to work well, some just take more velocity or more weight, while others can do a good job with less weight and less velocity.

It will depend on what want to defend against. For two legged threats the 125gr JHP has a good reputation at handgun velocities, for four legged threats a 158-180gr would be a better choice IMO.

The 125 grain Federal factory load was the "Gold Standard" for most of the years LE carried revolvers.

I'm not sure there is an optimum bullet weight, I like a 158gr bullet in the .357 Magnum, especially in a Carbine. They also work well in a 4" revolver. Most commercial loads are just fine but right now I'm using 158gr Speer GDHP ammo if I buy ammo.

If you want a good comparison of .38/.357 loads for self defense, go to luckygunner.com. Click on labs I think it is and find the tests run on many of the popular .38/.357 loads available. Even if you reload your own, it will give a lot of insight on what different bullets will do and what velocities you need to achieve this. After studying the results of the test, I ran some not so scientific test of my own and I've chosen Remington Golden Saber +P 38 Special for my self defense round. You can also buy these as components and load your own. Remington actually makes 2 versions of the Golden Saber, one for .38 and one for .357 and There is a Difference! But whatever you choose, I think you will find the data in their test very informative.

Frag hollow point.

IMO, the absolute best "dual purpose" .357 Magnum factory ammo is, unfortunately, no longer produced. The old Remington 180gr SJHP (scallop jacket) delivers 1200 fps from a 4" revolver and 1550 fps from a 16" carbine. Penetration from both in gel/denim media is 18". Expansion in the revolver is .560"; the carbine bumps it up to .600".
Of the currently available factory ammo, I'd look at the Barnes 140gr VOR-TX. It delivers similar performance.

DWFan said:

IMO, the absolute best "dual purpose" .357 Magnum factory ammo is, unfortunately, no longer produced. The old Remington 180gr SJHP (scallop jacket) delivers 1200 fps from a 4" revolver and 1550 fps from a 16" carbine. Penetration from both in gel/denim media is 18". Expansion in the revolver is .560"; the carbine bumps it up to .600".
Of the currently available factory ammo, I'd look at the Barnes 140gr VOR-TX. It delivers similar performance.

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Think I would rather have penetration of 6 inches with frag to protect other people and property.

If this is for inside the house, you should also consider muzzle flash and blast. I have 357 golden sabers loaded due to their performance and the fact that they are on the mild side for 357. However, I wonder if I should be dropping the load to 38+p. Rather not be dead and blind after the first shot.

To me, if I need a bullet that's heavier than 158 gr, I really prefer to shoot a bigger caliber bullet in a more powerful cartridge. Just my personal preference.

So I tend to shoot 158 gr.

460Shooter said:

To me, if I need a bullet that's heavier than 158 gr, I really prefer to shoot a bigger caliber bullet in a more powerful cartridge. Just my personal preference.

So I tend to shoot 158 gr.

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Good points. I would go a bit farther and say that if I feel the need for more than 125 grains, I go to a larger caliber.

DWFan said:

IMO, the absolute best "dual purpose" .357 Magnum factory ammo is, unfortunately, no longer produced. The old Remington 180gr SJHP (scallop jacket) delivers 1200 fps from a 4" revolver and 1550 fps from a 16" carbine. Penetration from both in gel/denim media is 18". Expansion in the revolver is .560"; the carbine bumps it up to .600".
Of the currently available factory ammo, I'd look at the Barnes 140gr VOR-TX. It delivers similar performance.

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https://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-180-gr-sjhp-remington-htp-50-rounds

The "best" ammo to have is the ammo you happen to have in the gun at the exact moment you need it. Variables depend on what size the BG is, what clothing he is wearing, where you hit him. how far away he is, the temperature the humidity and untold other variables.

A 124/125 gr bullet at 1300ish fps has been the go-to combo for 9mm and 357 mag for a long time. But the revolver is no longer a serious contender in the LE market and the trend in LE is to move to a 147 gr 9mm bullet at about 1000 fps. Early 147 gr bullets often failed to expand at those speeds, but that issue has been corrected. This combo is proving to give better penetration and good expansion with today's bullets.

If I were interested in an all around 357 mag load I'd be looking at some of the better 140-158 gr bullets.

jmr40 said:

If I were interested in an all around 357 mag load I'd be looking at some of the better 140-158 gr bullets.

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I have carried Barnes solid copper 140 gr offering. It has a good track record from my research with small game hunting. It may not expand as much as desired, and it may penetrate a bit deeper than needed, but in a rural setting it'd make a dandy SD bullet against anything black bear sized and smaller.

Rule3 said:

https://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-180-gr-sjhp-remington-htp-50-rounds

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Look closely. That is not the older scalloped-jacket bullet but the newer semi-jacket bullet Remington replaced it with.

brewer12345 said:

If this is for inside the house, you should also consider muzzle flash and blast. I have 357 golden sabers loaded due to their performance and the fact that they are on the mild side for 357. However, I wonder if I should be dropping the load to 38+p. Rather not be dead and blind after the first shot.

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After reading the lucky gunner test, I decided that the Golden Saber might just be the ticket. I also noticed that in the 38+p firing out of a 2" barrel gave much better performance than firing out of a 4" barrel at around 100fps increase and in .357 the results were almost the same out of a 2" and 4". It was a little confusing, so I decided to call Remington Technical. I got a great guy on the phone who first explained that there are actually 2 different 125gr Golden Saber Bullets. One used for .38 and the other for .357. The bullet used in the 38+P is designed for short barrel shooting at around 850-900fps and above 900fps, it will expand too quickly and not give desired penetration. I also found out that Remington also offered the Golden Saber as Components for Reloading. This was information right up my alley. I love to experiment with new handgun loads and every time I get a Revolver that I intend to keep, I play around until I'm satisfied I have the most accurate load for that gun. (I do tend to take some of my experimenting too far at times). I ordered 500 each of the .38 and .357 GS Bullets. I started my testing using factory .38+P ammo (which by the way is the cheapest sd ammo I've found at around $18-19 per box of 50). I only used 2", 2.5" and 3" Revolvers. Check the velocity in each. Wasn't worried too much about accuracy as almost any gun/ammo combo is accurate enough at 10 yards. Once I sort of got a baseline which was real close to the velocities that lucky gunner was getting, I started trying different powders and both types of bullets in my very unscientific penetration/expansion testing. I used wet newspaper, sand and gallon water jugs. Gel is too expensive for my budget. I mainly used Universal for both .38 and the .357 since it would easily produce the same velocities as the factory loads. One thing I did discover is even in the .357 offering, the GS Factory is not loaded hot. It is a lot slower than most 357mag loads of the same bullet weight than most companies produce and that is by design according to the technical guy at Remington. After all of that rambling the Bottom Line is The Golden Saber is as good and in most cases a better Self Defense bullet in .38+p than it is in .357 Mag. Less Flash, a whole lot less recoil and of course, much easier to control for follow up rounds. I even got some very great results at lower velocities than the +P. I got some good results in the 700-750 fps range, but Remington has the velocity figured out. I have the GS +P in all my carry guns whether .38 or .357. It is plenty good and being much easier to control than the .357 in a short barrel gun, I see no need to go magnum. One note, at the same time I was doing the GS Testing, I also tested the Federal HST bullet and the results were almost identical. I would say it is as good of a round as the GS. The bad point of the HST is being a flat style bullet it is much harder to use with a speed loader.

DWFan said:

Look closely. That is not the older scalloped-jacket bullet but the newer semi-jacket bullet Remington replaced it with.

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Darn, I guess it will be totally ineffective.