Progressive Loading 223 for AR

Do your case prep, then assemble them on the progressive.
I found that after the first trimming on 223, trimming is minimal.

FHBrumb said:

Am I gonna trim every time?

Click to expand...

No. But you should check a few every time just to be sure they are not getting long. Trim them to length and they will be good for awhile.

FHBrumb said:

Are you folks just leaving the lube?

Click to expand...

Yup. I use Hornady OneShot and leave it on. If you use a lanolin spray it should be removed with Woolite. Other stuff can be wiped or tumbled off.

FHBrumb said:

Almost all cases I have collected have various dings and dents.

Click to expand...

They will be fine. The sizer will fix the necks and any dents will be ironed out with 55,000psi at firing. Then the case will be shucked quite forcefully and receive brand new dents on the way out...

FHBrumb said:

Am I really saving time with a progressive, considering trimming, drying, whatever?

Click to expand...

Yes. It will just take some practice first. Trimming will have to be done regardless of the press. Wet tumbling is not necessary, so drying isn’t either.(Even though we all know wet stainless tumbling is best!)
Four or five operations per stroke will at least save your shoulder some. I do a thousand 45 Auto in a batch, that’s five thousand lever pulls to your one thousand and five.

RCBS X-Die. Trim once, then never trim again. That thing was money well spent.

I do all case prep prior to loading on the progressive. This includes:
Decap with hand deprimer
Cleaning in a tumbler
Lube with pad or Imperial
Resizing on a single stage press
Paper clip type check for case separation issues
Check trim length, trim as needed
Clean primer pockets, chamfer and deburr
Optionally prime the cases.
On the Dillon I prime, charge, seat bullets and crimp. Usually I prime pistol cases on the press and rifle off press. That is just a preference.

As others have said, do the prep work first, then load those cases on the progressive. It may not seem like it, but it is much faster that way. And spray lube is great.

If you have to trim a bunch of .223 I really like the Worlds Finest Trimmer. (WFT). Money well spent IMO.
I don't even bother to measure cases to see if they need to be trimmed.
Faster just to run them all thru, if they need to be trimmed they get trimmed, if not they don't.

I like Dillon/Frankford spry lube (lanolin and alcohol)

I use a Hornady Cam Lock trimmer with an RCBS three way cutting head. But I'm about to upgrade to an electric trimmer for bulk production.

I load 204 Ruger on a progressive to supply my long barrel AR-15 rifle for my prairie dog addiction.

Like others have said, I do the case prep ahead of time--re-sizing, cleaning, measuring, trimming if necessary, and priming. I then do the charging and seating of the bullets on the progressive.

For 204 Ruger, I've discovered the RCBS Gold Medal seater die. It has a window in the side of the die for setting the bullet before seating.

Am I really saving time with a progressive, considering trimming, drying, whatever???

Click to expand...

I use a single stage press for everything. I'm new to reloading and I decided to start simple as to be able to over see every part of every step and not have anything run away from me. If you load like I do I pull the handle 5 times per each single round and measure every single powder drop. It takes a considerable amount of time to load 50 rounds and usually by the time I'm done with 50+ rounds my shoulder and back hurts. I'm at the point of looking into a progressive press now just to save my time and shoulders.

Waterboy3313 said:

I use a single stage press for everything. I'm new to reloading and I decided to start simple as to be able to over see every part of every step and not have anything run away from me. If you load like I do I pull the handle 5 times per each single round and measure every single powder drop. It takes a considerable amount of time to load 50 rounds and usually by the time I'm done with 50+ rounds my shoulder and back hurts. I'm at the point of looking into a progressive press now just to save my time and shoulders.

Click to expand...

Yep, this is why you should. Take your time and learn the machine. Spend the money. Buy once, cry once. You'll be better in the long run.

Yep, this is why you should. Take your time and learn the machine. Spend the money. Buy once, cry once. You'll be better in the long run.

Click to expand...

Honestly it takes forever to load anything but I'm glad I started the way I did because I understand what happens during each step of the process. I'm not just yanking the handle hoping the finished product works. I think I'm ready to step up to a progressive press now but I suggest learning with basic equipment as your safety as well as the safety of others is at risk if you screw up.

cfullgraf said:

I load 204 Ruger on a progressive to supply my long barrel AR-15 rifle for my prairie dog addiction.

Like others have said, I do the case prep ahead of time--re-sizing, cleaning, measuring, trimming if necessary, and priming. I then do the charging and seating of the bullets on the progressive.

For 204 Ruger, I've discovered the RCBS Gold Medal seater die. It has a window in the side of the die for setting the bullet before seating.

Click to expand...

Ditto on the case prep first. I use the Gold Medal Seaters too....the ease of dropping a bullet in the window is the best kept secret of progressive rifle loading I think, for those who don't buy a rifle bullet collator/feeder, but I couldn't resist trying RCBS's new $125.00 tube rifle bullet feeders, and like them so much that I don't use that window much anymore. Once you start getting lazy........

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019640929

The video short below using a Rock Chucker was a test to see how well the "M" expander worked to allow the feeder to drop a single tiny 55 grain bullet (without a weighted stack behind it, even) and hold the .223 bullet firm and straight on the trip around the merry-go-round rotating to the seating station:


cfullgraf: I use my 7 station press for rifle, but since the brass is deprimed, cleaned, & sized off press I could use my pro 2000 5 station if I wanted as follows: Since the case is sized, I can use the "M" style neck expander that comes with the RCBS rifle tube feeder first in station 1, prime on the down-stroke/charge on the up-stroke on 2, then, using the tube feeder, feed the bullet on 3, seat on 4, and crimp the "M" expanded neck on 5....what's not to like.........and if you're really lazy (and feeling rich) buy a Dillon Rifle Collator to feed the tube.

I ended up buying both the .22 and the .30 caliber ones.....the feeder dies use ball bearings similar but different to the Mr. Bullet Feeder dies.....but just as reliable. Spoiled now....except that I still can't shoot or reload....recuperation is so stinking boring....

I would get a dillon trim die and the rt1200 or 1500. That way you don't need to worry about measuring brass or handling thousands of pieces into a pencil sharpener, the press does it all.

Station 1 is size die set up for about 75% sizing, station 3 is trim die and final sizing station 5 is neck mandrel die.

On a separate tool head you have power drop and seater die.

I loaded my first 50 rounds on a cheap Lee press, said screw this and got a dillon 650, haven't looked back.

Don’t have too much to add from what everyone else has aside from my own experience as a newer reloader.

I started reloading my 9mm and 223 on a RCBS Rockchucker single stage. Done about 1k 9mm and only 25 rounds of 223. But I do all my brass is batches/stages. Using 9mm for example I’ll sort by headstamp, deprime, tumble, then resize, tumble lube off, then prime using hand primer, flare all the case mouths. First couple charges of the session I’ll check each charge on a digital scale and confirm on a beam scale and seat the bullets. Then go to Checking every 10th charge and loaded round of OAL. After I’m done I’ll go back and use the taper die to take the bell outta the case mouth.

223 brass prep is similar, sort by head stamp, deprime, tumble, resize, tumble lube off, check case length, and use case gauge, set trim die (using a Lee trimmer on the press) then prime. Weight each charge and seat the bullet. Add crimp if desired. Will be looking at going to a turret or progressive at some point for bulk ammo.

by doing it in batches I feel it helps keep consistency for the rounds loaded during that session. Especially on a single Stage with having to change dies. But it’s better to get the basics then make a mistake. Then again I do it to enjoy it not looking at the time is money aspect.

I’ll no longer be using Hornady One Shot as case lube for rifle brass. Had two back to back stuck cases with it. Will only use it for pistol brass to make resizing a little smoother. YMMV though.

I still have much to learn but it’s a start!

I bulk process my brass in stages until i get to final assembly on the progressive. The way I accumulated reloading tools over the years this process makes sense to me.

I start with tumbled range brass, lay some out on a towel and use a lanolin / alcohol mix for lube prior to sizing on a single stage press. Using a single stage press for sizing eliminates what I feel would be inconsistent shoulder bump due to shellplate flex.

After tumbling comes another quick run in the tumbler to get rid of the sizing lube. Then the brass is all run through the trimming and rebutting process if it is once fired brass. It is during this process I really inspect the brass for indicators that would make me send pieces to the scrap bucket, or separated out for primer pocket swaging.
If i have processed this batch before then after sizing i will length check the brass with calipers, any brass over max length gets trimmed.

With the tedious work completed now I can move on to assembling the components on the progressive press, in this case a hornady lnl AP. I prime, charge, seat, and crimp on the press.

The time savings will not be in the up front tasks unless you are willing and able to invest in some pricy tools for the task at hand. The real time saver is in the assembling of the components once you have the dies and powder measure set up the way you want. From there its a matter of keeping the primers, powder, and components on hand to feed the machine.

What is “lots”?

Are you going to get back 100% of your brass fired from the same rifle with 0% fired from anything else?

Most of my brass comes from either police practice (100% once fired) or 3 gun (majority once fired). I could pick mine out but that takes a lot longer than just processing everything the same.

I size/deprime and trim with a 650.



If a case needs to be trimmed after sizing, it is. If it doesn’t, it’s not. Not a lot of magic just 1000+ cases an hour ready to load.

From there I put the cases into a 1050 where they are swaged as part of the loading process.



If it’s all your stuff and “lots” is a few hundred at a time, that’s a tad overkill though.

It doesn't take long to realize just how quickly you can shoot up 223 and how much work is involved with each one. I know people who still do the single stage reloading of 223 and I just shake my head at the amount of time they use up doing just a 1000 rounds. And they will NOT listen to a single word I say about efficiency or anything so I quit awhile ago and say not a single word what so ever about my setup or how they could cut down on case prep.. not... a... word.

The secret is don't do anything that has you handling each individual piece of brass. Everything I do uses a motorized hopper and I just keep it full and/or pull a handle. That includes annealing, sizing, swaging.

Not sure if it hs been mentioned yet but most 223 has military crimped primer pockets and you need to remove them before priming.

Also if your not getting bullets and powder cheap enough then reloading just plinking rounds is a lot of work for very little reward.

There are "other" brands of powder that can be had as little as $13 a lb. decent powders for mass loading of plinking rounds.

I would get a free reloading cost calculator and see what your looking to save vs buying loaded rounds. You might find yourself better off buying bulk ammo. One i use is Reloading Assistant. It also has published reloading data.

I also advise crimping seperately if you crimp for a semi-auto. It is much easier in the long run because you have less mistakes.

I decap, tumble, Lube and resize, then do all case prep. I wet tumble to get the Lube off. For production plinking rounds, I will then run through my progressive press, but instead of a sizer in station 1, I have a Lee universal expander, to flare slightly for flat-base bullets. For precision rounds, I will prime, then drop powder with my Chargemaster, then just seat the bullets.

Replies in bold

FHBrumb said:

I'm not new to handloading, but new to progressive presses and loading for a semi auto. I want to load lots of 223 for an AR. I'm trying to piece together a usable process in my head. I've got a few stumbling blocks and questions.

Seems like most of the brass I have is needing a trim. How often does a 223 case typically need a trim? I'm not loading for precision, just reliable shooting. Am I gonna trim every time?
I trim every time. Unless you are willing to completely segregate your brass that you shoot. If you are willing to do that, then every other firing should be adequate for trimming as 223 doesnt grow alot with each firing. Also, investing in an electric trimmer like a Worlds Finest Trimmer (WFT) or something like that will save you alot of time if you are trying to mass produce ammunition.

With a bottleneck cartridge, it seems that case lube of some kind is a must. Mostly I do the pad, but I'm learning the spray now. I have always cleaned cases after lube and resize, priming and loading clean dry cases. With a progressive press, this seems dumb. Are you folks just leaving the lube? Talk to me about that.
The best bet is to double run your brass on the progressive. First run decapps, and sizes. Then you trim and swage/trim primer pockets if it needs it. You should tumble at this point which will remove the lube. Second pass loads, the normal seat primer, drop powder, seat bullet rotation. What spray lube are you using? For bulk loading, its pretty hard to beat lanolin/iso alcohol at a 18-1 ratio.

Almost all cases I have collected have various dings and dents. With the pressure of the 223, when should I worry?
If the case is heavily dented after a sizing pass, toss it. If you are loading plinking ammo and you have a slight ding in a case post sizing, just load it, it will be fine.

Am I really saving time with a progressive, considering trimming, drying, whatever???
With a bullet and case feeder on my LnL AP Im loading about 700 rounds per hour. When I process brass, decap and size, Im at about about 1000 per hour. The slow part for me is trimming with the WFT because I have to handle each piece of brass with my hand. I have considered buying a Dillon trimmer and doing decapp/size/trim all on press, but Im just not at that point, yet. I also have about 15000 pieces of 223 brass on hand, so I process my brass in big batches just a couple of times a year. So it goes without saying, yes, you can save time. Even if you are feeding cases and setting bullets by hand, 400 rounds an hour is attainable if the press is tuned right and you are into the swing of things.

Thanks
Frank

Click to expand...

My press setup.
Station 1 - Lyman M-die
Station 2 - powder drop
Station 3 - bullet feeder die
Station 4 - Hornady seater
Station 5 - Lee FCD

A couple of more things and shortcuts that can be taken that wont effect your final product if youre just building plinking ammo:
You can skip the chamfer/deburr step in case prep if you tumble in SSTL media, or possibly walnut post trimming. The tumbling will knock off the sharp edges.
You can also use a Lyman M-die to put just the slightest flare on the case mouth which will make loading flat based bullets a piece of cake. Use the Lee FCD with a really light crimp just to close the flare.
Using this process my rifles will shoot about 1 -1.5" 5 shot groups with mass produced rounds using mixed commercial brass and Hornady 55gr SPs or FMJBTs.

@Kaldor Exactly how I have mine setup. Set it... and forget it!!!

Demi-human said:

I use Hornady OneShot and leave it on. If you use a lanolin spray it should be removed with Woolite.

Click to expand...

This is the first time I've heard about using Woolite. Specifically, how do you use it? Soak a rag with it then wipe each piece of brass? Wet tumble a batch of brass using Woolite? Inquiring minds want to know.