How ocd are you?

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To the OP - When first starting out reloading it's good to have a bit of OCD. After a while you'll figure out how much OCD is enough for any given cartridge.
I'm currently loading 38sp +P. Even though I'm loading to the cannelure I measure them on occasion. My OAL tolerance is about +/_ .02. I use the Lee balance beam scale and check the loads every 10 or so. I use a Lee Classic Turret and not usually in any hurry.
 
I do not load .38 but am not very OCD with pistol loading in general. Once I have my powder measure set up to the correct charge I will fill the cases directly. I may do some random checks to make sure I am still where I want to be.

For rifle reloading I do weigh all of my charges using a digital scale.
 
For me, it depends on how I feel. My OCD kicks in when I'm starting a load work up. I weigh every powder charge and hold the charges to less than .1 variation. For my work ups I also sort brass by headstamp. I reload for my hand guns about 20-1 over my rifles so much of this is "over kill". My accuracy/consistency in reloading/load work ups is perhaps a bit tighter than most because I have all the time I need to enjoy my bench time, I am never in a hurry and I have no quota. Often I will reload when I'm bored or have plenty of handloads on hand and a bunch that need testing, and I've been known to deburr flash holes, polish brass or weigh rifle brass and a couple timed I weighed about 200 of my cast 9mm bullets.(I have about 1,000 rounds of my "Just in Case" ammo that I reload when I just want some shop/bench time and I have weighed every charge. No, 45 ACP ammo needn't be that exacting, but that's my OCD again). I'm not that exacting with all my handloads as many times I'll use mixed brass and just drop charges straight from my powder measure, and like Ole Joe, I have never measured/trimmed a hand gun case ot measure the OAL of a revolver round.
 
The biggest thing for me in handgun loading is the charge. Pretty easy to go to far. So while were talking about charge weight and on the subject of scales, and this can been debated all day long, and has been! I guess an accurate scale would be great. In my monetary reach I like the word repeatable. If my scale is off by by a few .000 I don't much care.
What I do care about is if I measure and read 3.5 gns of XX powder, I want my scale to read exactly that if I weigh it 4-5 times. I have 2 less expensive digital also that didn't do that at least until they warmed up then it's still questionable. So I've gone back to a beam. It is Repeatable. I have one that was "Tuned by Scott Parker and a newer RCBS that it my go to for now. So that's where I'm OCD.
 
Honestly if I'm a .01+ or - I'm ok with that. I tend to be pretty close to the middle of min and Max recommended powder range on everything I load for. When I do my workups a tend to load 10 rounds of each powder weight in +.01 increments and I have generally not noticed anything until I have moved up to .02 or .03 from the first 10 rounds fired.

My goal is to be able to reload accurate and consistently. I was just curious what experienced reloaders call acceptable.
I have a Hornady LNL auto charge in the mail I'm sure using that will probably speed things up and stop a lot of my double checking as much as I do.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
This probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway. How much attention do you pay to detail? What variance do call acceptable?
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As much as my experiment on the variable indicates is important. Go measure for yourself, then you'll know something.
 
I used to spend a lot of time on every little detail. It is part of the attraction to reloading. If it makes you happy so be it.

I am afraid anymore i just chuck a bunch of brass in the hopper and start pulling on the handle.
 
I think I might have dropped the decimal point in the wrong spot. Yeah that was a big oops on my part autocorrect probably got me. I meant .1 not .01.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
I think I might have dropped the decimal point in the wrong spot. Yeah that was a big oops on my part autocorrect probably got me. I meant .1 not .01.
Click to expand...

Happens to me all the time. If you already have a regular scale and trickler you can throw one of these together and be well inside .1 but it really is unnecessary for almost all pistol shooting and most rifle shooting. Manufacturers volume throw charges by the thousands an hour every day.

 
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YMMV, but for someone who has been loading as long as the OP has, there is absolutely nothing ~wrong~ with the stated OAL variance.

When I first started, (not too long ago) my OCD of 'thousandths' was strong.
Today, when it comes to chamber-on-case-mouth cartridges like 9 and 45ACP, I can truthfully say that I cannot 'shoot the difference' using my own reloads with that same amount of variance.

I didn't want to plunk-test my pistol reloads when I first started either. Thought it would be more time consuming, grungy, and perhaps less precise than simply looking up a number in a book or online. I've since learned that every gun can be / is different, and that I wanted a more user-controlled way of defining my desired OAL.

I've had my Ruger PC9 for a little over a year now. I use it when I work on 9mm loads and the takedown feature makes plunking easy/quick/clean. I choose my own setback/OAL for each type of bullet I use in the carbine and use that same OAL in all my 9's.
(Works fine for my needs. YMMV)

OP: Don't fret a few thousandths variance in OAL this early in your reloading adventure. You'll pull your hair out for trying to obtain perfection by number.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
I have a Hornady LNL auto charge in the mail I'm sure using that will probably speed things up and stop a lot of my double checking as much as I do.
Click to expand...

When I bought my Hornady ProJector... the predecessor to the LNL... it came with a volumetric powder drop. It took me about 5 years to actually trust it... but in reality, it took me 5 years (in a time when I was not handloading a lot...) to get it seasoned properly so flake powders like Unique wouldn't throw all over the place. There are several hints on how to season up a powder drop and get rid of the static, ensuring consistent throws... I would advise you to spend some time playing with your new drop, getting used to it... and getting it seasoned.... before throwing charges for real.

As far as your OP, variances are only as acceptable as you allow them to be. For example, I don't even measure the length of straight-walled pistol brass, but... depending on which cartridge, and which rifle they are going in... I get a little more choosey about OAL case length in rifle cartridges, for example. Most of my pistol handloads are not near max, so some amount of deviation in charge weight is OK with me, but I measure charges of W296/H110, for example, because they are near, or at, maximum.

There are oodles of places in handloading that variances can show up... if you tried to eliminate all of them you would a) never get anything done but case prep, etc, and 2) go insane trying to control and quantify every little aspect of the process. Pick your battles...
 
Charlie98 said:
When I bought my Hornady ProJector... the predecessor to the LNL... it came with a volumetric powder drop. It took me about 5 years to actually trust it... but in reality, it took me 5 years (in a time when I was not handloading a lot...) to get it seasoned properly so flake powders like Unique wouldn't throw all over the place. There are several hints on how to season up a powder drop and get rid of the static, ensuring consistent throws... I would advise you to spend some time playing with your new drop, getting used to it... and getting it seasoned.... before throwing charges for real.

As far as your OP, variances are only as acceptable as you allow them to be. For example, I don't even measure the length of straight-walled pistol brass, but... depending on which cartridge, and which rifle they are going in... I get a little more choosey about OAL case length in rifle cartridges, for example. Most of my pistol handloads are not near max, so some amount of deviation in charge weight is OK with me, but I measure charges of W296/H110, for example, because they are near, or at, maximum.

There are oodles of places in handloading that variances can show up... if you tried to eliminate all of them you would a) never get anything done but case prep, etc, and 2) go insane trying to control and quantify every little aspect of the process. Pick your battles...
Click to expand...


+1^^^^^^
I use the same powder throw along with my own home made baffles and match pistol/rifle bushings. I've used that powder throw for decades with excellent results. But then again it comes down to the powders I using. Powders like wst, 2400 or clays are very consistent and are typically spot on. Powders like bullseye, ww231 or power pistol are +/- .1gr. And powders like unique, 700x or trail boss are +/- .2gr.

Sounds like the op needs to invest in a chronograph. When it comes to reloads for a pistol/revolver. Things like inconsistent brass/bullet seating depths/position sensitive powders have more affect on accuracy then +/- .1gr of powder.
 
My advice is to always be safe !!
USE Caution when weighing powder and remember you are creating a mini bomb that will be going off near your face.
read the warning labels on products and powders, read the MSDS on products, follow instructions and be safe.

J
 
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The Devil is in the details.

But there are hundreds of "details". I believe the key is to know which "details" can kill you. So I don't always get crazy about case length, but by golly I do get obsessive about powder measurement. After studying multiple situations where reloads hurt people, I realized that "double loads" with 'fast' powders was a recurring issue. Therefore I'm extremely careful about...
• Staying away from extremely fast pistol powders
• Inspecting and maintaining my powder measures
• Taking my time and using multiple samples when adjusting a powder measure
• Providing plenty of light to see into each case
• Actually looking inside each case
.
 
I can't remember if I have ever checked the OAL on revolver ammo. Each bullet should be crimped into the supplied crimp groove because that is the correct spot for that bullet.

Of course ammo for a semi-auto is a totally different discussion.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
How ocd are you? What variance do [you] call acceptable?

I load 9mm and .45 acp as well I wasn't being specific about .38 special
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Scales checked to 0.1 gr accuracy and at powder charge ranges used with check weights. Calipers checked to .001" accuracy with pin gages for calibers loaded.

For cheapest general purpose range blasting/training loads that just has to function the pistol, not necessarily for accuracy:
  • Cheapest bullets - Currently using RMR pulled plated bullets. Don't care about bullet diameter variance/out-of-round or bullet-to-bullet weight variance
  • Cheapest powder - Currently Promo using powder charge that will just reliably cycle the slide. Don't care about drop-to-drop powder charge variance (Averaging 0.1 to 0.2 gr variance)
  • Prefer finished OAL variance to be less than .005"
  • Whatever OAL that will reliably cycle the slide
  • Mixed range brass OK
  • Press primed without inspecting primer pockets
  • Any brand primer seated to flush or below flush
  • Bullet setback of several thousandths OK

For more accurate range practice/training loads:
  • Plated/coated bullets OK - Bullet-to-bullet weight variance less than a few grains, prefer around 1.0 gr. Same bullet diameter.
  • More accurate powder that meters better - Prefer 0.1 gr variance
  • Prefer finished OAL variance to be less than .003"
  • "Average" OAL for bullet weight (Example for 9mm 115 gr FMJ/RN, 1.130" and 124 gr FMJ/RN, 1.135")
  • Mixed range brass OK
  • Press primed brass without inspecting primer pocket
  • Any brand primer seated to flush or below flush
  • Bullet setback prefer to be less than several thousandths

For match grade accuracy loads:
  • Most accurate range tested bullets (Currently, RMR jacketed bullets). Same bullet diameter. Larger sizing used if greater accuracy produced.
  • Bullet-to-bullet weight variance less than 1.0 gr
  • Most accurate powder that meters at/less than 0.1 gr variance
  • Prefer finished OAL variance to be closer to .001"
  • Shortest OAL that reduces group size (Example for 9mm 115 gr FMJ/RN, 1.110")
  • Same headstamp brass pre-resized (Sorted by resized case length for greater consistency)
  • Hand primed brass inspecting primer pockets
  • Specific primer brand seated below flush (Target .004" below flush)
  • Prefer no bullet setback (Different headstamp brass checked for bullet setback amount)
  • Every finished round chamber checked
 
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dranrab said:
Make sure your OCDness drives you to visually inspect all charges prior to the bullet seating stage.
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Thats a really good response and one I highly recommend. I keep a small Harbor Freight freebee flashlight on my bench and look into each and every case before seating a bullet.

For handguns I use a RCBS Little Dandy powder dumper and have around 8 rotors. They will get me close enough to the desired charge in the manual. I have even been known to double dip when I needed a bigger charge than I had a rotor on hand for. Like needing a 9gr charge of powder and not having that rotor but a smaller rotor will drop a 4.5gr charge. So I drop two charges in each case.

I also used a Little Dandy rotor I drilled out and threaded and use a set screw ground down thin and have an adjustable powder thrower. I do use a scale to set it. But as for weighing powder charges I almost never do that for handgun rounds except for max 44 mag loads I can't use the Dandy for. I am more concerned that the case length is close so that the crimps are all the same.

Nearly all rifle loads are weighed on the scale. When I first started I was too poor to afford a scale so I used a set of Lee dippers for rifle loads. And you know what? I loaded some really accurate loads with those dippers. When I got a scale and weighed charges they were no more accurate than the dipper method. But that one gun I had was a custom built gun and shot every thing accurately.

I did load several boxes of 243 loads this year and used the dippers. The gun shot just over an inch with those loads. Good enough for the kind of deer I kill.
 
For loading plinking ammo I'm (now) not particularly OCD. I was at first (a little). But as someone said in previous response, over time you acquire an understanding of what you do need to obsess over and what you don't.

Now I tend to obsess on a few things that are centered on the process....and less so the ammo: Have I written down correctly on the little piece of paper I post by the bench the load I want to load? Have I cross-checked it between my loading log and a published loading manual? Do I have the right powder on the bench? Do I have the right bullet on the bench? Have I set my scale correctly? (This is a big one for me - as I had a scare on this front a few years ago.) Is the lock ring on my Uniflow powder measure tight? (I read a story from someone who didn't have this locked down. As they loaded the charge got larger and larger. So cases charged at the beginning of the loading session had less powder than cases charged at the end of the loading session. o_O)

For precision rifle rounds we're talkin' a whole 'nother kettle of fish. If I'm one kernel over in the pan I'll re-do the charge. If the bullet ends up being seated even .001" too deep I'll give the round a light tap in the kinetic pullet to pull the bullet out a little - and re-seat it.
 
With respect to powder charge in particular, your attention to detail is most practically applied to a method that will allow a sufficient quantity of cartridges to be loaded. You can scrutinize each charge mass on a digital scale, but it becomes impractical if you want to load hundreds or thousands of cartridges. Even if you automate such scrutiny with a "Chargemaster" type device, it's too slow. It might work out if you had a bank of 10 Chargemasters. What most people find far more practical is to meter the powder by volume with a drum or disc type powder measure. If and only if the device is adjusted properly to throw charges consistently without snagging or dragging, then the consistency is usually quite good indeed. It does depend on the powder granule size and shape. My Lee Auto Drum powder measure, which functions with the same parts as Lee's manual drum powder measures, is consistent to within +/-0.06 grains with ball powders. This is substantially more consistency than is meaningful with handgun ammunition. It is even quite satisfactory for loading rifle cartridges for a fairly high level of precision. A Chargemaster must be better for benchrest rifle shooting, but I wouldn't know. I have attained a 5-shot standard deviation of velocity as low as 9 fps with .357 Magnum using my Lee Auto Drum. This is a result I've repeated also. In any such case, I was using Barnes monolithic copper bullets that are probably more consistent than the cheap plated bullets I shoot most. With those, I'm content with an SD of twenty-something, but I can make single-ragged holes at 40 yards (off a rest) with still much less consistency than that. Handgun ammunition can vary in velocity quite a bit indeed before there is any meaningful effect at the most common handgun ranges under 25 yards. You can use a ballistic calculator and predict the difference in trajectory for different velocities and see that at 15 yards even a wide variation in velocity is only going to result in a tiny variation in elevation of the point of impact. Crafting handgun ammunition to greater consistency is more a point of pride in workmanship than it is any practical requirement. It also serves as good evidence that there is not something wrong that we're neglecting. For example, if our powder charges are inconsistent, we may need to check the measure for damage or maladjustment. If our charges are consistent but the velocity is not, we may need to check the gun for potential problems or evaluate our other components like bullet, or the compatibility of the primer and powder.
 
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