After spending time with a single stage, I made the right choice with my Dillon

Type12- I reload 9mm, 39 special and 223. Going to 45 APC after Christmas.

If I am loading low volumes of bottleneck rifle cartridges with a two die set then the progressive doesn't do much for me. After sizing I have all that off press case prep to take care of. I am going to use my Chargemaster Lite to drop the powder charge, again I would be running that progressive with one die in it. For that privilege I would have to spend $50 on a cartridge conversion kit. That is not worth it to me!

alfsauve said:

The difference between Dillion's Tool Head and Hornady's Lock 'n Load is with Hornady you insert each die separately. So you can effectively make the Hornady a single stage, single operation. Or a dual operation. Or any combination. Each die has its own twist and lock bushing so once adjusted you just do a twist-lock to put in or take out the die. While I think Dillion's are great I prefer the flexibility of the Hornady.

An example. When loading new 9mm brass, I put all dies in the press and load away. But when I'm reloading used brass, I put only the resizing die in, resize all the brass then perform a chamber check. Then put the other dies in and do the rest of loading. It is the experimenter's flexibility that the Hornady system has.

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I do believe that’s what those little slotted or Allen head screws on lock rings are all about. Set the die lock the ring remove and replace as needed. Those larger RCBS knurled rings won’t fit the die spacing
On the Dillon tool head. Standard ones will like the Lyman’s will.

Typetwelve said:

The 650 and 1050 are amazing machines...but I just don't shoot enough to justify them. I wish I had the time and money to shoot that many thousands of rounds/yr...but I just don't. Even reloading,plowing through 5000 rounds of even 9mm is dumb expensive.

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5000 primers = $155
Powder for 5K rounds = $50
5000 cast bullets = $100

Total = $305 or $0.061 a round.

FWIW, I've loaded some fairy accurate rifle ammo on my 550b.( 270, 300WM, 243win, and a friends 30-06) and still do. (hunting) Everything is well under 1". Bought it because I was new and wanted to be careful. It's a good press and don't let anyone think you've wasted your money. Before this I had , and still do, a RCBS partner. That's pretty basic. It simply pulls rifle rounds for me now. Enjoy your press.

All machines mentioned in this thread are great machines and have a place IMHO. Though the original post mentioned match ammo. I still do all my blasting ammo on a progressive press.

Using the same dies redding competition in 224Valk, 223Rem on RCBS Rock Chucker, RCBS Summit Single Stage and Hornady LnL AP, and Dillon 650, the RCBS Summit Single stage showed less runout by FAR over the progressive presses. Though it only edged the RCBS rock Chucker out by a small margin. I think it is worth noting that the RCBS Rock Chucker also beat both of the progressives. So I continue to use single stage for so called match ammo and progressive for blasting ammo. I just try to stay ahead of the need for match ammo meaning loading 100 or 200 at a time and not waiting until the last minute. Caveat -- though runout was smaller with single stage presses I never went on to the second part of the test in seeing if it really made that much of a difference on target at the range.

I load on a Forster CoAx a Redding Big Boss and Dillon 550B and a Dillon 650. All have there uses. I like to use single stage for precision rifle and progressive for handgun and smaller rifle like 22 centerfire rounds works great for those. I think right setup progressive would work great on any round. Like mentioned Tubbs uses 550 and John Whidden uses a 650. It can be done. My setup for rifle on Forster it is slide die in slide it out 2 seconds change dies. I have compared runout on it to others it is better for sure. But all presses have there uses. Glad Dillon works for you definitely great equipment love mine

I have a 'Chucker and an LNL AP. Both are using the Hornady die bushing system.
Where to start,,,
Like most folks, I have 2 hands,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.
When each one has one task and both tasks take close to the same amount of time, my efficiency and consistency while reloading is at it's best.
Once you put a case ejector on a single stage it's 'one less thing' for lefty.
I have the Inline Fab case ejector on my 'Chucker. Left hand may have 1 or 2 tasks now. Right has one.
With the LNL, My left usually has no more than 1 task. Same as right.

Also appreciating the flexibility of the AP. As many or as few processes as you like, one pull,,,,
W/pistol found that if I size/decap/prime in one pass and then come back a 2nd time performing these 5 processes (charge/lockout die/bullet drop/seat/crimp) the overall process is less strenuous on both me and the press.

YMMV

I don't think I would still be reloading if I started on a single stage instead of my 550. Honestly not sure. As much as I like to shoot, I don't think I would be able to keep up. The 550 allows me to make decent quantity batches in short time.

On the other hand, I did buy a used RCBS JR at a gun show for stuff I can't do on my progressive. Took me 2 years, but I now believe that everyone should have a single stage press. I don't say everyone should start on a single, but eventually you'll probably need one.

Texas10mm said:

5000 primers = $155
Powder for 5K rounds = $50
5000 cast bullets = $100

Total = $305 or $0.061 a round.

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Where do you find 9mm cast bullets for $20 a thousand shipped?

Yep, I too am a fellow that started reloading on a progressive then bought slower machines. It’s nice to press a button and come back after folding the laundry to have 100 bullets sitting in the bin and the machine waiting for me to top it back off with components.

That said there still is stuff I have, that i load so few of, it doesn’t make any sense to setup a progressive for them.

Where do you find 9mm cast bullets for $20 a thousand shipped?

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The ones I cast are the only ones I can get that cheap these days.

buck460XVR said:

Where do you find 9mm cast bullets for $20 a thousand shipped?

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Under my bench. I cast my own.

Texas10mm said:

Under my bench. I cast my own.

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I kinda figured that, kinda why I asked.

I see these kinds of statements all the time. How cheap one can reload. Folks unfamiliar to reloading see these costs and think they too can realize such a great savings. What they don't realize is that odds are, they will not get lead for free like some folks. They also don't comprehend the start up cost of casting or the amount of time it takes, along with having somewhere decent to do it. So many times, as in your post, there is no mention of brass cost....or shipping/hazmat costs, sales taxes, etc. While it's easy to say our brass didn't cost us anything, unless someone delivered free brass to our residence, it was not free. It did cost us something. While it's cost is less everytime we reload it, there is a initial investment. Then there is the time it takes to cast and reload. Like Typetwelve and many others out there, start-up costs and time spent to produce relatively few rounds of ammo makes casting and reloading for anything other than fun, cost and time prohibitive.

Seems folks like to brag not only about how inexpensively they can produce their own ammo, but also about how fast. JohnnyG claims he can produce 9000 rounds of .45ACP on his BillyBob 4040 in just two hours. Maybe he can, just like you can produce 9mm ammo for $.06 a round. but folks need to realize it is not the norm. Far from it. While I love to reload my own ammo and get custom made ammo for a fraction of factory, the overall cost is not just measured in the cheapest prices for components I can find on the internet. For many, even at $.06 a round, 5000 rounds is more than they can afford in a year. For some, with work, family and other obligations, not only do they not have the time to cast 5000 bullets, they wouldn't have the time to shoot them.

I find myself lucky. I have the resources to shoot and reload as much as I want. If and when I shoot cast bullets, I buy them, as I would rather spend the time it takes, doing something else. In the time it would take me to process and cast 5000 bullets, I could work a small side job and come away with enough cash to not only buy those 5000 bullets, but the powder, primers and new brass as well. I certainly ain't chastising you Texas10mm. I applaud you for having the time and expertise to be able to cast your own and justifying it. $.06 a round is certainly something to be proud of. But not everyone is in the same boat or position. Just like not everyone needs a progressive, a single stage or both. We only need what we can afford and desire, what time and monies dictate and what works for us. The OP feels he has made a great choice with his Dillon, as it should be. Others here have claimed differently. Doesn't charge the fact the OP is happy. Same goes for folks who don't reload at all.

buck460XVR said:

If and when I shoot cast bullets, I buy them, as I would rather spend the time it takes, doing something else. In the time it would take me to process and cast 5000 bullets, I could work a small side job and come away with enough cash to not only buy those 5000 bullets, but the powder, primers and new brass as well.

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Casting is a labor of love.
I consider myself fortunate that I enjoy loading and casting. In the cold months, when deer season is over, I spend a lot of time in the garage casting and preping bullets. It's time that I wouldn't be doing much anyway, and it beats sitting on the couch watching TV.

But I understand that it is a lot of work and some folks would rather not do it.

As previously stated I too have a single stage, turret press and two different progressives. I haven't used the single stage JR3 much but now that I am casting I have it set aside with Lee Bullet Lube/Size dies in it and it works very well. I then have an old Lee 3 hole turret press that can do anything pistol caliber that I ask it to. For just about all of my pistol rounds I use just a standard set of Carbide 3 die sets and it works great. Three hole turret/3 dies. I use this setup to work up new loads or to run small batches like 380 or 38Spl that I don't shoot a lot of. Then once I have a load developed I set up the progressive and go to town usually loading 300-500 at a time.

Again one of the progressives I use is the Lowly/Despised Lee Pro1000, again 3 hole turret loaded with 3 Carbide dies. Use it with the case feeder/collator and it cranks out 500 9mm or 45acp pretty quickly and admit I must be doing something wrong because I don't experience any difficulties priming on this press with either of the Large or Small Primers.

I guess I just hope everyone is enjoying themselves as much as I am!!!!

buck460XVR said:

The OP feels he has made a great choice with his Dillon, as it should be. Others here have claimed differently. Doesn't charge the fact the OP is happy

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Exactly. As long as what you bought fulfills your specific needs and you're happy with it, then it is the best hardware in the world, regardless of branding.

I'm one of those guys that started casting bullets with my Dad back in the '70's, then just did it occasionally until about four years ago when my son and I both started shooting huge quantities of 9mm. When I looked at the cost of adding additional casting hardware to get my production capabilities up to where it met our ammo "needs," I was very much surprised to find that the additional expense was pretty minimal. A Lee 20 lb bottom pour pot was cheap, as was a six cavity Lee mold, and a Lee push through bullet sizer. I built my own PID to control the pot temp, and bought a second hand Black & Decker toaster oven for 10 bucks when I switched over from tumble lubing.

It only took a few months to "make back" the money spent on casting hardware vs buying our projectiles. We also discovered that we really enjoy it as a hobby. On days when we'd like to go shooting but the weather has other ideas, we spend the day casting, sizing, and reloading.

buck460XVR said:

I kinda figured that, kinda why I asked.

I see these kinds of statements all the time. How cheap one can reload. Folks unfamiliar to reloading see these costs and think they too can realize such a great savings. What they don't realize is that odds are, they will not get lead for free like some folks. They also don't comprehend the start up cost of casting or the amount of time it takes, along with having somewhere decent to do it. So many times, as in your post, there is no mention of brass cost....or shipping/hazmat costs, sales taxes, etc. While it's easy to say our brass didn't cost us anything, unless someone delivered free brass to our residence, it was not free. It did cost us something. While it's cost is less everytime we reload it, there is a initial investment. Then there is the time it takes to cast and reload. Like Typetwelve and many others out there, start-up costs and time spent to produce relatively few rounds of ammo makes casting and reloading for anything other than fun, cost and time prohibitive.

Seems folks like to brag not only about how inexpensively they can produce their own ammo, but also about how fast. JohnnyG claims he can produce 9000 rounds of .45ACP on his BillyBob 4040 in just two hours. Maybe he can, just like you can produce 9mm ammo for $.06 a round. but folks need to realize it is not the norm. Far from it. While I love to reload my own ammo and get custom made ammo for a fraction of factory, the overall cost is not just measured in the cheapest prices for components I can find on the internet. For many, even at $.06 a round, 5000 rounds is more than they can afford in a year. For some, with work, family and other obligations, not only do they not have the time to cast 5000 bullets, they wouldn't have the time to shoot them.

I find myself lucky. I have the resources to shoot and reload as much as I want. If and when I shoot cast bullets, I buy them, as I would rather spend the time it takes, doing something else. In the time it would take me to process and cast 5000 bullets, I could work a small side job and come away with enough cash to not only buy those 5000 bullets, but the powder, primers and new brass as well. I certainly ain't chastising you Texas10mm. I applaud you for having the time and expertise to be able to cast your own and justifying it. $.06 a round is certainly something to be proud of. But not everyone is in the same boat or position. Just like not everyone needs a progressive, a single stage or both. We only need what we can afford and desire, what time and monies dictate and what works for us. The OP feels he has made a great choice with his Dillon, as it should be. Others here have claimed differently. Doesn't charge the fact the OP is happy. Same goes for folks who don't reload at all.

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1. 9mm brass is basically free. I can go to my club pistol ranges and easily pickup a minimum of 500 pieces of 9mm brass any day of the week. Even if one was to start with new Starline brass $136/1000 the brass cost per round would be less than a penny over time. You can get processed once fired 9mm brass for around $0.02 each, again, over time that's nothing for brass costs. Or if you were smart you were saving brass all along.

2. I don't pay hazmat. I can buy primers cheaper locally than what I can buy them online for. $31/1000 out the door for CCI or Winchester primers. I'm working on over 25K that I've picked up at garage and estate sales. Average cost is $15/1000. Powder is under $22/ lb out the door.

3. I can't tell you about your local sales tax. Maybe you live in a state with no sales tax? I think we're all smart enough to know to figure your local sales tax into the cost.

4. As long as one doesn't live in a nanny state that bans lead based wheel weights you can usually get usable lead for around $0.20-.025/lb. For 9mm bullets that means you're paying less than a penny per bullet in lead costs. Add in a fraction of a cent for Hi-Tek coating.

5. The cost to get into casting is less than $50, and you can recoup that cost in less than an afternoon. Hell, I can buy a new high end mold for $125 and pay for it in an afternoon.

6. This is the RELOADING forum. I would guess that most people in this forum are already reloading or getting ready to. Reloading equipment does cost money, however if you are doing a decent amount of shooting you can pay for the equipment in less than a year. If you're loading .45 ACP and casting your own bullets you're saving at least $0.13 a round. That's with using current replacement cost on components. A Dillon 750 only takes 10,000 rounds to pay for. I shoot right around 500 rounds per week. That's 5 months to cover the cost of a new Dillon 750.

You kind of sound like a guy I talked to last week. He claimed saving money reloading was impossible as .45 ACP bullets alone were over $0.20 each and brass was also over $0.20 each. I asked him where he came up with those prices. He told me at Cabela's, the bullets were Remington 230 gr RN and new Remington brass.

I told him that he could use the brass till he lost them or at least 30-40 times. He looked at me like I was talking in tongues. I then told him he could get bullets for around $0.15 each for plated or under a dime for cast. At that point he told me to prove it so I did. He did say that he didn't know he could use the brass more than once.

If you don't have the time or room to reload then don't be upset that I can shoot a LOT more than you can for the same money. The same goes for casting. Casting doesn't take that long. A 8 cavity MP mold will easily produce 800-1000 bullets an hour. It takes minutes to coat them. I went out this afternoon for two hours. I cast up 500 9mm bullets and 400 .45 ACP bullets. That was with four cavity molds. If I had grabbed one of my 6-8 cavity 9mm molds I would have had a lot more 9mm bullets. But I wanted hollow point bullets so I was forced to use a 4 cavity mold.

Typetwelve - I started on a Lee Breech lock & then graduated to a 550.
I have both including a 2nd 550.

Great choices, for me anyway.
So for newbies you don't NEED a $500 press to start.

But it sounds like you have a sweet setup.

Texas10mm said:

You kind of sound like a guy I talked to last week.

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No, I don't. Probably been reloading as long if not longer than you have.

Texas10mm said:

If you don't have the time or room to reload then don't be upset that I can shoot a LOT more than you can for the same money.

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Not upset at all. I shoot as much as I want the way it is. Just saying that not everybody has the same priorities when it comes to reloading, and that the majority of folks will not realize the amount of savings you are, and pointing out your cost per round is not the norm.

when i started reloading in the early 70's i started on a single stage lyman press. then in the early 80's in need more ammo fast for weekly matches. so i got my first dillon 550. then in the early 90 i got my second 550. i use the dillon's for pistol and the old lyman for rifle. i did pickup a second single stage press in the 90's to help in the rifle loading. hard to beat a 550.

Typetwelve said:

I'll admit that I was able to go into reloading with my eyes open. I crunched the numbers, my initial "investment" with all of the Dillon stuff I bought will take years to pay off.

Another great example if the "super cheap DIY" was/is assembling your own AR. Back when they were more costly than now, guys would go online and talk about how cheap building your own is...but like reloading there were plenty of gotcha's and asterisks underneath that claim.

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If it's going to take you years to pay off a Dillon you're either not shooting enough or didn't need a Dillon.

I bought a new Dillon 650 last year, with a case collator and lots of aftermarket upgrades, almost $1500 total. I paid it off in four months.

I look forward to getting a 650 with 9mm and .223 conversion heads. I've been loading on a Forster co-ax and whole exceptional for all calibers, even pistol, I yearn for volume.

You are indeed correct that 1,000 rounds of 9mm can feel like a chore when you're no longer experimenting with seating depth, crimp, bullet, powder, primer, or cases. That said I'll always workup loads on the single stage so both have a dear place in my dream setup.