Sierra Match King vs Tipped SMK

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D.B. Cooper

D.B. Cooper

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What are your thoughts/experiences regarding the Sierra Match King HPBT as compared to the Tipped SMK HPBT at, say, 300-600 yards? (30 caliber 168 grn 30-06 to be specific)

In the specs, I see an increase in BC from .462-.535 which results in supersonic velocity at 1k yrds, but that doesn't matter much to me. Is there any increase in shot group size or performance in general? They're only about 4¢ per round more so that's irrelevant.

Edit: My apologies. I should have added more information. My purpose here is NRA/CMP Service Rifle Competition, specifically, the 600 yard slow prone stage. Loading for an M1 Garand. Because i was interested in the difference in the tipped vs on tipped projectile, I didn't think this additional information was all that relevant whenI made my initial post.
 
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I don’t know if its relevant for you, but I load my 223 right at the max length that will fit in my magazines. I haven’t seen any advantage to the plastic tip, so I don’t bother with it. The proof is on the target.

If you can load them with the same relative length in your gun, why wouldn’t you want to try them out?
 
I would agree with Allen one 1
Order up a 500 box and have a look see.
Additionally speaking Sierras aren’t the greatest Bullets available , IME lot to lot they vary quite a bit dimensionally leading to inconsistent performance.
I quit using them in favor of Berger or Lapua Scenars.
J
 
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The wind is where that bc matters. If you dont deal with wind during competition shooting there may be no added value.
 
South Prairie Jim said:
I would agree with Allen one 1
Order up a 500 box and have a look see.
Additionally speaking Sierras aren’t the greatest Bullets available , IME lot to lot they vary quite a bit dimensionally leading to inconsistent performance.
I quit using them in favor of Berger or Lapua Scenars.
J
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Really!? That's very enlightening. The last time I loaded 168 grn SMKs (admittedly, that's 25 yrs ago), they were considered king of the hill. Is your experience with the Match Kings specifically, or something else from their line? I had pretty good results with the SMK, but I'm essentially starting from zero again.
 
AJC1 said:
He may not shoot completion. I dont know him.
Click to expand...

So that's on me. I went back and added additional information to my OP. My apologies.

But yeah, this is for Service Rifle competition. Although, I hunt in wide open tundra, and wind is a constant companion. I think the only shooters who don't have wind are the 10 meter indoor air rifle crowd. (I guess maybe if you're shooting White Tails at 50 yrds in brush, wind would be a non issue as well.)
 
I only shoot a Garand at 600 yds. in one match per year. My bullet of choice at 600 is the 168 AMax which flys well for me and I typically finish near the top of the pack in that phase of the match. Sorry that I don't provide a more significant sample size, but like others have said give them a try. I don't think that you'll do worse with a tipped bullet.

I've not bought any Sierra's for many years. I think that you pay about a dime per bullet for the name. Hornady's seem to do fine by me.

I don't trust tipped bullets for big game hunting. Luddite? Probably.
 
@D.B. Cooper
I’ve used 168 gr SMK in my 308 for 600 yard Benchrest

I’ve used 107 gr SMK in my 6 BR for 600
Moved on from both for lack of consistency on paper as well as while loading. Sometimes I felt like they were being shoveled off the floor it got that bad.
To be perfectly honest the smallest group I ever shot was with the 107 smk then I ran out of that box and never found that magic again.
Bergers are much better IMO
 
Well. That was a let down. I loaded up 50 rounds of 30-06 with the tipped 168s. My limited reloading experience with rifles has shown that I always do better with loads that are at or near maximum powder charges, so rather than starting at minimum and working all the way up, I started at 45 grains (4895) and went up, 0.2 grains at a time, to 47 grains. What I got ranged from meh all the way down to "what the crap." Best showing was 46.0, but even that was about a 2 MOA group. I don't know how much of that is bullet, the barrel (1956 S.A.) or the shooter. Not sure whether I should take that 46 grn charge and start increasing the OAL, change to 4064, or walk away.
 
My only experience with them was for a .223/5.56. Hated them compared to the conventional SMK's... the length of the plastic tip ate up too much room, and I couldn't get to "the good part" of the Varget load that I like under the non-tipped ones.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
change to 4064
Click to expand...

If I was shooting 168's for any sort of accuracy in a Garand, I would probably start with IMR4064. There is a caveat, however... and maybe Slamfire knows more about this... is incorporating an adjustable gas plug for the slower powder.

Comparing sorta apples to apples... with 168grn BTHP's in my .308 24" Savage bolt gun... IMR4064 outperforms IMR4895 every time. That's sort of a 'YMMV' issue with each gun, but I think it's pretty solid.
 
ATLDave said:
My only experience with them was for a .223/5.56. Hated them compared to the conventional SMK's... the length of the plastic tip ate up too much room, and I couldn't get to "the good part" of the Varget load that I like under the non-tipped ones.
Click to expand...

I had the same issue. Ended up going with a 5" drop tube to get the powder in. They do decrease drop and drift some.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
What I got ranged from meh all the way down to "what the crap." Best showing was 46.0, but even that was about a 2 MOA group. I don't know how much of that is bullet, the barrel (1956 S.A.) or the shooter. N
Click to expand...

Like I said in one of your other threads, a Garand is a Garand. I'd take the 2 MOA, and count your blessings if its from an as-issued rifle. There are not many that will do better than that. I spent a fair amount of money to build a National Match clone, and it gets 1.5 MOA on a good day.

Buy a box of the Creedmoor 30-06 167 gr. and try that if you question your handloads.
 
Charlie98 said:
If I was shooting 168's for any sort of accuracy in a Garand, I would probably start with IMR4064. There is a caveat, however... and maybe Slamfire knows more about this... is incorporating an adjustable gas plug for the slower powder.

Comparing sorta apples to apples... with 168grn BTHP's in my .308 24" Savage bolt gun... IMR4064 outperforms IMR4895 every time. That's sort of a 'YMMV' issue with each gun, but I think it's pretty solid.
Click to expand...

IMR 4064 has a Garand appropriate burn rate, so an adjustable gas plug is not necessary. Plus, it is not legal for CMP matches, in which I believe the OP participates in.

Don't expect bolt gun performance from a Garand. Even "sorta apples to apples" is a stretch. Proof can be found in the match results for the CMP Vintage Sniper team match. Garands and the ancient bolt rifles compete in different classes, and the bolt guns win every time by an average 15-25 points in a 400 point match.
 
I do not have any experience with the Tipped SMK, but many shooters in my local high power competitions tried them when they first came out (5.56). They all abandoned the experiment and went back to Bergers, conventional SMKs or Nosler BTHP. I have tried the Hornady ELD-M and stuck with it for 600 (also 5.56). This is a little different animal though, as I'm shooting a 75 grain bullet rather than 80 and the BC/Velocity differential makes a difference in the wind for me with this load. I still shoot Hornady 168BTHP to 600 in my Garand and find them more than sufficient. I would not gain much with the 168 ELD-M, but if I were shooting long line a lot with a Garand I would certainly give it a try. I'm running mine over 46gr 4064. This powder is in the Goldilocks zone for M1 Garands, so no adjustable gas plug needed. Agree with another poster above, you're paying a dime a bullet for the green box. Hornady and Nosler produce a product of equal quality, Lapua and Berger produce better. Hornady in particular has come a long ways in the last 5 years with their match bullets. They are no longer the Rodney Dangerfield of the high power firing line.
 
Laphroaig said:
IMR 4064 has a Garand appropriate burn rate, so an adjustable gas plug is not necessary. Plus, it is not legal for CMP matches, in which I believe the OP participates in.

Don't expect bolt gun performance from a Garand. Even "sorta apples to apples" is a stretch. Proof can be found in the match results for the CMP Vintage Sniper team match. Garands and the ancient bolt rifles compete in different classes, and the bolt guns win every time by an average 15-25 points in a 400 point match.
Click to expand...
The OP is planning to shoot the M1 as a Service rifle in NRA and maybe CMP-EIC, both of which may use an M1 Garand with some accuracy modifications and any ammunition. "As issued" M1 Garand with issue M2 Ball ammunition or approved substitute issued for match are specific to the CMP JCGarand match fired at 200 yards and use of the M1 in a vintage or aggregate match.

Agree with everything else. In Vintage rifle competitions at 200 which pits the as-issued M1 against Springfield, M1917, and foreign military bolt actions with ammunition unlimited, the M1 cannot run with the others given a top shooter running the trigger. An NRA match modified M1 for service rifle with good handloads however, is a little different animal. Haven't seen many fired head to head with the old bolt guns, but I've seen them put up scores at 600 comparable to modern AR based National match rifles with good shooters behind both guns, so I'm guessing they could run with the boltguns.

Edit, misread Laphroags post about eligibility of the rifle to be questioning the powder, not the adj. gas plug. Apologies.
 
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Laphroaig said:
IMR 4064 has a Garand appropriate burn rate, so an adjustable gas plug is not necessary. Plus, it is not legal for CMP matches, in which I believe the OP participates in.
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I wondered about the legality of the adjustable plug for some matches... it depends on what he is shooting. I know IMR4064 is in the envelope, but the OP mentioned he usually found his best accuracy at the top of the load data... I just don't want to see him pretzel an oprod.
 
I'm shooting Service Rifle XTC (Across the course, 200, 300, and 600 yrds), and we have one EIC leg match per year up here. (There aren't many people doing Service and High Power Rifle up here, but I've read that these particular disciplines are declining in popularity nationwide.

I could accurize the gun some and still be legal. I would likely see some benefit in that. I would like to keep it JCG (John Cantius Garand Match) legal, which means "as issued: no modifications becuase I would like, one day, to do the JCG match at Camp Perry. (I'm not competitive enough to shoot the national matches-I waited too long in life for that.) Additionally, we have a couple of vintage rifle matches at the club level here that are basically "as issued" rules.
 
Charlie98 said:
If I was shooting 168's for any sort of accuracy in a Garand, I would probably start with IMR4064.
Click to expand...

I've run it in the past with some success. I was trying to standardize on one powder; that may not be feasible.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
I've run it in the past with some success. I was trying to standardize on one powder; that may not be feasible.
Click to expand...

Truthfully, I tried that for a while. I bought 32# of IMR4895 as my go-to for .30-06, .308, 7.62mm, and some lever-action cartridges. It worked, but it was not optimal, and in the firearms that I was actually trying to reach an accuracy goal, it didn't work at all. So, now I have 4 powders where I had 1; I'm still dealing with it... counseling helps, and soon I'll be off my medication for good.
 
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