Loads for Service Rifle M1 Garand

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D.B. Cooper

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Just starting to get back into Service Rifle with my M1, so here goes:

1.) Powder: 4895 vs 4064. I'd like to stick with one powder for logistics and storage, and my preference is for 4895 because it's so good in my 243. However, I used to shoot a probably too heavy load of 53 grns of 4064 under a Sierra MK 168 grn HPBT, and it was pretty accurate (and probably hard on the op-rod). Ultimately, safety and long service life of the op-rod are my priority here; I don't consider the op-rod consumable as some others might.

2.) Projectiles and loads for XTC (across the course). I know a lot of guys with the ARs (and, years ago, the M1/M1A) are loading range-specific cartridges for 200, 300, and 600 yards. It would seem simpler, to me at least, to load for 600 yards and shoot that at all ranges. What are the benefits of range-specific ammo? This is connected to question 1, above, as it seems the common consensus on this is to use the 4064 + 168grn HPBT combo as the 600 yrd cartridge and then some version of a 150-ish grn HPBT (or even just a FMJ) projectile over 4895 for the 200 and 300 yard stages.

2B.) On the topic of range-specific ammo, there are only about 6 matches per year up here, four of which are on 100 yrd reduced ranges. Do I even need to work up a 600 yrd load?

3.) Neck size or full-length size. I can't remember which I did 20 yrs ago. This is the only gun this ammo will be fired in, but it's an autoloader. How necessary is full length resizing?

4.) Seat to SAAMI length or seat to just off the lands? This is connected to question 3, above. It seems to me that, for the slow fire stages (200 and 600 yards), where cartridges are loaded one at a time, I could use a bullet comparator to figure out the optimum for accuracy length and disregard functioning in the clip, especially if I were loading range-specific ammo. I would probably leave these cases fire formed to the chambers and neck size only.

What are your thoughts or experiences on these topics?
 
I like IMR4895 for my M1 Garand loads... but I'm not shooting matches, either. I would probably give both IMR4895 and 4064 a spin to see which works better for your rifle, particularly with the 168grn bullet. I would probably look into an adjustable gas plug, too, particularly with IMR4064.

I don't know how sensitive to OAL a Garand is, but if memory serves, it's pretty tight in there. I'm a big full-length sizer for anything autoloading, you can certainly minimize the case working by adjusting your die to size and just bump the shoulder.
 
I like IMR4895 for my M1 Garand loads... but I'm not shooting matches, either. I would probably give both IMR4895 and 4064 a spin to see which works better for your rifle, particularly with the 168grn bullet.

I've had good results with 4064 + 168 grn projectiles; I'm just hoping to standardize on one powder.

I would probably look into an adjustable gas plug, too, particularly with IMR4064.

That would disqualify the gun for competition. (Although, I do have a plug from ammogarand, but it's just a standard plug with a cavity inside it that allows a slight delay in the build-up of gas pressure, giving time for the op-rod to start its rearward travel. I think the Schuster plug, which is truly adjustable, is the better plug, but all of this is pretty much irrelevant to this topic.
 
At the moment, I'm loading 168's with Varget for 200 and 300, which is probably closer to 4064 than 4895. But I have used IMR 4895 in the past and its a good powder too. I've laid in a nice supply of 150/155 Match projectiles and plan on giving them a try when my supply of 168's dries up. I'll probably go back to 4895 when I do that.

I only shoot 1 600 yd. match per year, and splurge for Hornady Garand ammo for the 600 yd. stage. I still have 2 or 3 boxes left, when they are gone I'm going to move to Creedmoor 167 Match ammo. Both are better than anything that I can load for that distance.

I bought some HXP M2 ball when it was cheap, and currently use it for 100 yd. Matches. I think that it is totally acceptable at 200 yds. too and have shot some good scores with it. Sometimes the Indian has as much to do with shooting a Garand accurately as the arrow.

I load all of my stuff to mag length. I'd be interested to hear if loading off of the lands makes any difference or not. I kind of doubt that it will, but you never know.
 
I can't help you with accuracy results because I primarily shoot steel during multigun matches, but 168 Nosler CC over 44.6 H4895 was good. I also did a bunch at 46.4 H4895 that might be closer to an "old-school" match load.

You might also want to look at 110 grain sierras for 100 and 200 yard lines. I believe several NRA matches have been won the past couple of years by guys shooting 110s. I just barely tried it and 49 grains of H4895 seems to be generally recognized as the sweet spot. I tried it and it runs fine and recoil is very low. Lots of guys like this for the rapid fire strings.

Just something to think about.

Also full length sizing is very necessary in Garands. IMO.

Also I liked this video about neck sizing. Not really applicable to garands (which you should full length size anyway and bump the shoulder back 3 thousandths) but pretty convincing to me.

 
I've had good results with 4064 + 168 grn projectiles; I'm just hoping to standardize on one powder.

That would disqualify the gun for competition. (Although, I do have a plug from ammogarand, but it's just a standard plug with a cavity inside it that allows a slight delay in the build-up of gas pressure, giving time for the op-rod to start its rearward travel. I think the Schuster plug, which is truly adjustable, is the better plug, but all of this is pretty much irrelevant to this topic.

For that matter, you might try IMR4064 in your .243... you never know. As I said, you will just have to try it to see what your rifle likes. There is no doubt IMR4895 will work, however.

I don't know anything about competition shooting... I didn't know that about the adjustable plug. I have heard about the lighter bullets (~150's) being used on the short course with success, I've not heard about 110's, though. Interesting. I run Hornady 110grn TAP in my M1a and they are like shooting a 5.56mm...
 
For that matter, you might try IMR4064 in your .243... you never know. As I said, you will just have to try it to see what your rifle likes. There is no doubt IMR4895 will work, however.

I don't know anything about competition shooting... I didn't know that about the adjustable plug. I have heard about the lighter bullets (~150's) being used on the short course with success, I've not heard about 110's, though. Interesting. I run Hornady 110grn TAP in my M1a and they are like shooting a 5.56mm...

I've tried 110 grn projectiles (flat base) with 4064 in that gun before. The goal was to get the recoil down. I must have loaded them too light, because I remember getting a lot of short stroking.
 
I like H4895 and 150 grain bullets for my Garands. IMR4895 is an alternative if I cannot get H4895.

I've used some Varget in the Garands and would use it again if necessary.

I like having options and alternate loads developed for many of my firearms.

I've never tried 4064 so I cannot comment.
 
And that's another discussion I've been meaning to have here: what is the difference between H4895 and IMR 4895, especially now that Hodgdon owns IMR.

To get the same velocity, my loads are different between H4895 and IMR4895. But it has been 15 years or so since I used any IMR4895 in my Garand ammunition.

The Hodgdon Reloading data web site still shows a difference in charge weights between the two powders to get approximately the same velocity in 30-06.
 
Also full length sizing is very necessary in Garands. IMO.
I've read that, and I've read advice from some very experience High Power shooters, and I settled on setting shoulders back ~0.004" from fired for my Garands. This isn't much different than the HXP I have, and it seems to work.

Setting shoulders to cam-over in my .30-06 FL die would be ~0.012", and a great recipe for head separations. Saying "full length" as a substitute for actually measuring shoulder position is likely to lead to trouble.
 
And that's another discussion I've been meaning to have here: what is the difference between H4895 and IMR 4895, especially now that Hodgdon owns IMR.

I had an older can of H4895 I bought for some reason... I wanted to get rid of it so I just loaded up some generic loads for the Garand. My standard load is 47grn IMR4895 behind any 150grn FMJ, so I loaded 46grn H4895... I got higher velocity with the H version. Unlike some of the powder matching Hodgdon has done (H110/W296, for example) the H and IMRs are definitely 2 different powders.
 
Yeah they are, and most people say IMR is a little hotter. Side by side the IMR has a little bit of a green/gray tint while H is black. Nearly everyone says you can use almost the same load data with either, but best to drop charges a bit when swapping and work back up.
 
Depending on HOW old, the H4895 may have still been surplus from when they used to sell it in cardboard canisters scooped out of big drums. Mine probably is. 20 lb round cardboard container. I would expect that it would differ somewhat from new stuff as they used to (and still do) load ammo based on velocity with certain batches of powder, and some was hotter than others.
 
Depending on HOW old, the H4895 may have still been surplus from when they used to sell it in cardboard canisters scooped out of big drums. Mine probably is. 20 lb round cardboard container. I would expect that it would differ somewhat from new stuff as they used to (and still do) load ammo based on velocity with certain batches of powder, and some was hotter than others.

I still have the container it came in, I don't really know how to cypher the Hodgdon lot code. I would guess I bought it in the late '90's, I had my Garand by then and would have worked through a pound or two of powder. I can only guess I bought the H4895 because they didn't have IMR4895 on the shelf.

Interesting thing about H4895, Hodgdon provides downloaded data for it in reduced loads, and it supposed to be more temperature stable than IMR4895 (as I understand it.) I could see that... I don't consider IMR4895 to be temperature insensitive based on my chrono readings.
 
As to load data for the M1 Garand here is a page you may find useful. My best results have come from AA 2495 and like most I also like H 4895 and IMR 4895. When shooting 150 grain I like the Sierra 150 grain FMJ stuff and for serious ammunition I like the Sierra 150 and 168 grain HPBT bullets but also the Speer Gold Medal 168 grain HPBT stuff. I also noticed what shoots great in one rifle may be not so great in another. So really it comes down to working up a load for a specific rifle.

I saw mention of Master Po well MASTER PO'S M1 loads (Courtesy of the NRA) is alive and well and every time I visit that website it takes forever and then some for the page to load. I have no idea why but it is apparently running on a slower than slow server. Eventually it does load.

The oldest powder IMR 4895 and some IMR 4064 I have used recently was about 25 years old and with proper storage it has worked just fine along with old CCI primers.

Ron
 
My advice for reloading for Garands/M1a's is to


1.Full length resize in a small base die
2.Trim cases
3.Clean primer pockets, ream to depth
4.Prime all cases by hand, verify that all primers are below the case head, and use the least sensitive primers you can find.
5. Use IMR4895/AA2495/H4895 powders.
6. Seat the bullets to magazine depth, no longer than 3.3” inches for the 30-06, no longer than 2.8 for the 308, shorter is fine.


There are important safety considerations that need to be known when reloading for Garands, M1as, and M1 Carbines. All of these rifles are functionally similar in that they all have a free floating firing pin. The risk in all mechanisms with free floating firing pins is that incidental contact between the firing pin and primer can cause cartridge ignition, or a “slamfire”. You can search the web and every mechanism with a free floating firing pin has a posted slamfire incident. This includes AK47s, SKSs, French rifles, etc, etc, etc. The worst case slamfire is a slamfire that occurs out of battery, this will result in a catastrophic failure of the mechanism. The Garand mechanism has the most out of battery slamfires of any rifle on the market, some of this is due to the number of Garands in civilian hands, but it is also due to the lack of a positive mechanical firing pin lock or blocking device. All of the Garand based mechanisms share a firing pin retraction cam, this cam pulls the firing pin back during extraction. It also has limited utility as a safety device, because it blocks to a limited extent the firing pin going forward, but that only happens in the last 0.007” of movement. Long or tight rounds totally defeat the firing pin retraction’s cam ability to hold back the firing before cam down. Neck sized rounds are positively dangerous in this mechanism. Given an overly sensitive primer, one that will go off when struck by a rebounding firing pin, if you sized your round smaller than the chamber the odds would will be in your favor to have an in battery slamfire.

Only at final cam down is the firing pin retracted. Up to then the firing pin is totally free floating and tapping the heck out of the primer.

To show this in pictures, this is a M1 Carbine firing pin retraction cam.


DSCN1383FiringPinEngagingbridge.jpg


A M1 Garand firing pin retraction cam is functionally identical, just the carbine is easier to understand in pictures.


fjquWeS.jpg


Firing pins in this mechanism are free floating and the mechanism does not have a positive mechanical interlock to prevent incidental contact between the free floating firing pin and the primer. As can be seen here, that bolt has around three inches of travel before the firing pin tang touches the retraction cam.

mNJCiLD.jpg


And the important point is:

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Even when everything is perfect, the firing pin will rebound off the primer of a chambered round, just chamber a round and eject it without firing. See if your primer looks like this:

Xm8eqkK.jpg

It turns out that cam down is the point at which out of battery slamfires occur. It does make sense that it is because here the bolt has its highest forward velocity and yet, it has to de accelerate to go into battery. The firing pin , of course, has the same velocity of the bolt, but on cam down, being free floating, it continues to move forward and it will rebound off the primer. If the bolt has to stop to crunch fit a long or a fat case that firing pin is rebounding off the back of the primer at its highest velocity and the lugs are not engaged.

That is why it is best practice to small base size cases used in these rifles and to set up the dies with a case gage and size to gage minimum. (Assuming you don’t know the headspace of your chamber, if you do, always be 0.002 to 0.003” less) You want the bolt to close without resistance. This will reduce the risk of an out of battery slamfire assuming an overly sensitive primer. You can still have an inbattery slamfire given an overly sensitive primer, also an undesirable event, but an inbattery slamfire is less likely to blow off the back of your receiver, blow the bolt face off, rip off the elevation knob, and split the stock in two

XOHUEzE.jpg

FN 49's have a reputation for slamfires with commercial primers, this is a great picture of a FN49 after an out of battery:

Nt6l9ro.jpg


If you attempt to small base size with a spray on lube you will stick the case in the die. I recommend RCBS water soluble or Imperial Sizing wax. These are excellent lubes.


For these rifles it is good practice to ensure ream primer pockets to depth, seat the primers by hand, and verify that all of the primers are below the primer pocket. There is a chance that a cocked primer, with the anvil firmly seated on something, could ignite when hit by the bolt fact. Clean those pockets! While high primers are one of the most common cause of misfires because the primer won't fire unless the anvil is seated and is pushed up into the primer cake. http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/ given a shallow pocket, given debris in the pocket, it is possible that high a primer could be ignited by the bolt face. One reloader removed the military crimp on his brass and his crimp removal process created a brass ring of waste material. Which he left in the bottom of the pocket. After seating primers, he had a firmly supported primer anvil and a high primer. His rounds slamfired in battery, so he was very lucky it was not worse.

After seating primers examine the back of the case and see if there are high or cocked primers.

It is also safety critical to use the least sensitive primer around because these rifles will slamfire in battery or worse, out of battery, given a sensitive enough primer.

Federal primers are the most sensitive primer on the market and the most "slamfiring" primer in Garands. I have lots of web accounts of slamfires with Federal primers. Don’t use them. I recommend CCI #34s and Tula7.62 primers as they considered "Mil Spec" primers. Which means they are less sensitive than commercial primers, federal are the most sensitive commercial primer on the market

Slamfires are a low probability event, but they do happen. The DTIC document :

Comparison Test of Rifles 7.62 mm, M14, Manufactured by Springfield Armory and Harrington and Richardson Arms Company, July 1963 has the only credible data that can be used in estimating out of battery slamfire probabilities. In this test six new M14’s were undergoing various interchangeability tests. Each was to be fired 6000 rounds for an endurance test. One Springfield Arsenal M14 slamfired out of battery at round 5271. Based on this, I estimate that the probability of a slamfire with military spec primers is 1:35,000 per round fired. The slamfire risk with more sensitive commercial primers would be higher.

When firing single shot, use a SLED. Do not put a round in the chamber and drop the bolt. Lots of inbattery slamfires, and a few out of battery, have happened because of this. You want to slow the bolt down. When rounds feed from the clip the friction between cartridges slows the bolt a bit. You want to use a SLED as that slows the bolt a bit.

If loading a Garand without a SLED, lower the bolt about 1” over the follower and let go. Always get your hand out of the way so that if the mechanism slamfires the operating rod does not cut through the palm of your hand.


0jnY96i.jpg



Get your hand out of the way. I recently talked to a shooter who was firing a military M14 with LC ammunition. He shooting standing SF in NRA competition. He had pressed a round in the magazine and tripped the bolt, but the round jammed on top of the follower and the bolt was frozen in place. He then hit the operating rod, and he is of the opinion the round went out of battery, but was is not an opinion is that the operating rod sliced his palm and created a cut that required 34 stitches. One of these day’s I will post pictures of his hand. It has been close to 40 years since his accident, and you can still see a scar.


Anyway, I wanted to put a safety first section, a discussion of the peculiarities of the Garand design, before delving into other information. This is not discussed in any detail in the in-print press. I absolutely believe this is because it would tend to scare potential owners from Garands and M1a's, and thus reduce sales. In fact, there has been over a half century of mis information and misdirection on this topic. Deniers are very vocal and persistent.

M1 firing pin bridge question.

Use powders that are close to IMR 4895 in burning rate or just use IMR 4895. This mechanism will be over accelerated if gas port pressures are too high. This will happen with powders that are too slow, such as IMR 4350, or loads that are too high pressure. This round pre dates WW2 and was not a magnum round and the commercial round is loaded to pressures higher than the service round. Reference b. recommends choosing powders that have burning rates between IMR3031 and IMR4320. This includes powders such as IMR 4064, and Winchester 748. Accurate Arms stated that AA2520, AA2495 and 2700 are their best powders for the M1 Garands. AA2700 appears to be a slow burning powder, listed as even slower than IMR 4350, but Accurate Arms told me, that because it is a ball powder, the pressure curve has dropped enough that port pressures are not excessive for a Garand. The first lots of AA2700 that Accurate Arms sold were actually surplus WC852 and that powder was used in 30-06 ball ammunition and tested in Garands. I believe the first choice of powders are IMR 4985, H4895, AA2495. In the 30-06. I have used a load of 168 grain Sierra Match, 47.0 grains IMR4895, LC cases, and CCI #34 primers OAL 3.300” for years. I am a consistent winner at club matches with this load. This is a great target load, should be considered a maximum load, does not hurt a thing to cut it a grain or two. The maximum bullet weight to use in these mechanisms would be a 175 grain, I don’t recommend any heavier. National Match ammunition was loaded at 2640 fps with a nominal bullet weight of 173 grains.

T9zmw56.jpg

In the 308 Garand/M1a the staple was a 168 grain 41.5 grains IMR 4895, LC cases, CCI #34, OAL LT 2.800

If you can’t find CCI #34 or Tula7.62 primers then you have to use primers of commercial sensitivity and the risk of a slamfire increases. I do not recommend Federals in this mechanism, I don’t recommend the new brass colored WLR, CCI 200 seems to have a harder cup than other commercial primers, but what do I know? When I talked to CCI about this, I was informed that their commercial primers meet the less sensitive requirements of commercial primers. I have never tried Remington primers, no opinion. I have conducted my own primer tests to see what happened over the chronograph, personally I am a fan of the Russian primers, they shoot very well.

Notice that ball ammunition is not that hot, and neither is Lake City National Match.

My loads shoot well in my Garands, so I don't see any reason to use any other powder than IMR 4895/H4895/AA2495

fpJjDDC.jpg

QyDqQoP.jpg

oJDHRXW.jpg


M1 Garand BMR Receiver Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist

150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball

14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F

Ave Vel =2545

Std Dev =20
ES = 68
Low =2513
High = 2581
N=8

174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel =2592
Std Dev =28
ES =103
High =2647
Low =2544
N =10

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM CCI #34 OAL 3.30

14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F
Ave Vel =2632
Std Dev =20
ES =60
High =2671
Low =2611
N =10

174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Tula 7.62 lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel =2582
Std Dev =15
ES =49
High =2602
Low =2553
N =10
excellent group


174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895 Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM Wolf NCLR lot 18-09 OAL 3.30
14 Nov 2011 T = 74 °F

Ave Vel =2607
Std Dev =17
ES =57
High =2642
Low =2585
N =10

A source for the old NRA recommended loads, for bullet weights other than 168 or 174 can be found here. http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm I load my 150’s with 47.5 grains IMR 4895 instead of a max recommendation of 49 grains. I have chronographed and tested all my loads, a 150 SMK with 47.5 grains IMR 4895 is moving just at 2725 fps, and that is as fast as I want a 150 grain bullet to go in this mechanism, regardless of what someone else may say.


Check cartridges for case head separation. Gas guns are hard on brass: the bolt unlocks while there is still significant chamber pressure. Because of this the case gets stretched on extraction. Carefully inspect cases for stretch ring marks at five reloads. They occur about .4” of an inch ahead of the base. You can verify if the cases are internally necking by inserting a bent paperclip in the case, and feeling for an edge.

120cPyI.jpg

Shooters claim various case lives in the M1 or M1A. Some have case head separations about the fifth reload, others have taken their cases up to ten reloads. The useful lifetime of a case is determined by case head separations, case neck splitting, or primer pocket enlargement. When any one of these failure mechanisms happens to a case, it has exceeded its operational lifetime. In my experience, US military brass holds up better than commercial cases. But this is a broad generalization. You want to use heavy cases over light cases.


References:

a. The Mysterious Slam-Fire, American Rifleman, Oct 1983

b. Reloading for the M1 Rifle, American Rifleman, Mar 1986
 
A great deal has been put forward so I will only add a few little things.

I get the I have so much stupid powder, but for me part of the fun is working up the different recipes...so I have tons of different powder....it is not that expensive in the grand (get it) scheme of things....so why not. I have kinda drifted to imr but have other stuff as well.

I would just work up loads for 100 yards, that is as far as your match goes, find the recipe that works best for the holes at 100 and there you are. This is what I do, but ours are at 200.
 
I get the I have so much stupid powder, but for me part of the fun is working up the different recipes...so I have tons of different powder....it is not that expensive in the grand (get it) scheme of things....so why not. I have kinda drifted to imr but have other stuff as well.

I have tested and shot, H4895, AA2495, IMR 4895, IMR 4064, AA4064, AA2520, Varget, and I used IMR 4350 with a vented gas plug. I tried 190's with IMR 4350 with a vented gas plug and the experiment was a failure. The load shot poorly and the recoil, slamming and banging, even with a plug that just locked the action back, was much more than I wanted. In my M1a, Varget was too slow, pressures at unlock were higher than I wanted so I did not try it in the Garand. What works in the Garand works in the M1a and vice versa. Accurate Arms told me AA2520 had the same pressure curve as IMR 4895, and it shot well, but overall, considering throw weight and consistency, there was no reason to change from the 4895 series of powders.

The two most common powders used in M1a's and M1's were 4895 and IMR 4064. I preferred 4895's because I could load my ammunition on a Dillion and not have to weigh powders, plus the loads shot well. If you think you can improve on 4895, well have at it. Five shot groups are not going to prove much of anything on target, and one range session is not stressful enough to really prove all weather reliability. I have shot my Garands in competitions for decades now, in all weather, and my loads function without "funnies". That is good enough for me.
 
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