Mid size .380 pistols...

whm1974 said:

Now most .380 handguns aviable in the US are small frame, short barrel pistols that have more painful recoil and higher muzzle flip due to the lighter weight. Why are Mid size .380s hard to find in the US?

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Equating size with recoil is not always correct for .380. A large, heavy blowback .380 -- such as SIG P232 -- can have a stouter recoil than a smaller, lighter locked breech .380. -- such as Glock 42.

The 380EZ combines the locked breech operation with an ergonomic size, specifically in order to reduce the felt recoil.

whm1974 said:

Still looks full size in the picture. ~5" barrel?

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The Browning is quite deceptive in pictures! If you look at the majority of "1911-style" .380 pistols, they only resemble the 1911 vaguely. Their proportions differ, most do not have grip safeties, their grip angle is wrong. You can right away tell that they are not 1911s. But the Browning 1911-380 is different: it literally is a scaled-down 1911.

Here's a picture for you. At first I look at it, and see a 1911 and a Glock. And then... I see an UpLula right there. It looks HUGE. Only then it becomes obvious that this is a toy 1911 and the Glock is actually a Glock 42, a tiny little thing!

Locked-breech 380s are a real pleasure to shoot. Since recoil is not controlled solely through springs, recoil springs can be light and slides are very easy to rack.

Mid-sized 380s, particularly locked-breech designs, are often touted as guns for the aged or infirm, but I can put rounds accurately on target 30%-40% faster with my Sig P250 in 380 than the same gun in 9mm.

SRSTAdam21

A buddy of mine had a SIG P230 SL and after I checked it out, the first thing through my mind was this gun is like the Rolex of mid-size .380s. Metal to metal fit and finish were superb and it was without a doubt an extremely well constructed pistol.

AK103K said:

NIce 232.

Our local shop has a nice used one and Ive been trying real hard not to go buy it. Just because.

Ive owned two 230's, and only paid right around $250 for each. They have gone up a bit, and they're asking $600 for this one. A bit salty, but doesnt seem to be to much out line from the looks of it.

"You dont need it, you dont need it, you dont need it".......Im screwed!

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Yes, prices CERTAINLY have gone up on these guns. I got this 232 for a great price compared to what I have seen others pay recently, but still more than 10-12 years ago. And of course you don't need it....it needs YOU!

The Makarov length is -- 6.36"--. A huge number of their commercial versions in .380 or 9x18 Mak. are available here (mags are 100% interchangeable, except in the rare, double-stack Maks).
Mine has been a Tank. Approx. 1,000 rds were used, and with zero issues. The True Makarovs were produced Only in Russia, E. Germany, Bulgaria and in the P.R. of China.

* Note that some other guns are also chambered in the same 9x18 rd....but those are Not 'Makarov' handguns. Many ads are deceptive or mistaken.

That M&P .380 is longer, --6.7"-- in length.

My Sig 232 is also an extremely well-designed gun.

whm1974 said:

I did think about getting the Makarov or similar pistol chambered in 9x18 Mak due to the much lower cost of the ammo compared with .380 prices a long while back.

Has 9x18 Makarov gotten harder and more expensive to find?

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Not bad at all. 500 rounds for $104.99 where I buy my ammo.

whm1974 said:

$.21 cents a round??? Hardly inexpensive...

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What are you paying for 9mm? I don't think that is out of line at all for a round that isn't nearly as popular.

Ignition Override

My brother has an East German Makarov and I was impressed with it's overall fit and finish, comparable to currently made S&Ws and Colts.

whm1974 said:

surfing the Web for prices of .380 ACP pistols I run across this S&W .380 mid size handgun that is a single action auto with a proper frame mounted manual safety.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/105737/s&w+m&p380+shld+ez+kit+380acp+sfty
Review Here:
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/7/23/review-smith-wesson-mp380-shield-ez/

Now most .380 handguns aviable in the US are small frame, short barrel pistols that have more painful recoil and higher muzzle flip due to the lighter weight. Why are Mid size .380s hard to find in the US?

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They aren't.......Glock 42..

.

I carried a Colt Government .380 stainless for a few years, I found it to be a fun pistol at the range. Locked breech, not blowback... like my brother's PPK/s, which is NOT fun at the range. For some time, I considered sending it off to C&S for better sights and a general tightening up (it IS a '80's era Colt, so it's build quality is not very good...) but the price was about what I paid for the pistol to start with.

My Kahr CW9 is only slightly larger than the Colt... and actually lighter... and chambered in 9mm, so the Colt got parked in the safe.

380 is best in "pocket" size pistol like LCP for when one can do no better, "better than nothing".
Few, (read two or three) 380 loads can consistently expand and penetrate at least 12' gel after heavy clothing.
If carrying on belt, 9mm or bigger caliber; many more 9mm loads available that meet that ^ minimum desirable requirement.

whm1974 said:

Why are Mid size .380s hard to find in the US?

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Because we have these and just figured we didn’t need to go any bigger.









I have asked Glock to give the G42 the X treatment. I’m starting to think they don’t listen to me.

[QUOTE="whm1974, post: 11488852, member: 9219"Why are Mid size .380s hard to find in the US?[/QUOTE]
Because people would rather have a mid size 9mm.

When the Israeli surplus Beretta 84’s showed up a few years ago, I had to buy one...it was a pistol I had wanted when I was young and couldn’t afford.
I didn’t intend any serious use for it. I figured I’d shoot it for a while, and eventually use it for trade bait.
However, a trip to the range changed that plan. I found the 84F I bought to be 100% reliable, and more accurate at 25yds than a 380 has a right to be.
It fits my hand like it was made for it, the pistol points like finger. Carries easily IWB.
I’m not a police officer, I’m not an operator, I’m just a guy in a relatively safe situation. I feel pretty well armed with 14rds of Underwood +P XTP in my belt. Sure, I have a G26 I usually carry, but sometimes, I just slip the Beretta on.

CDW4ME said:

380 is best in "pocket" size pistol like LCP for when one can do no better, "better than nothing".
Few, (read two or three) 380 loads can consistently expand and penetrate at least 12' gel after heavy clothing.
If carrying on belt, 9mm or bigger caliber; many more 9mm loads available that meet that ^ minimum desirable requirement.

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whm1974 said:

I doubt that the .380 is nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Shot Placement matters more then anything for self defense usage.

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I didn't intentionally try to make it sound bad; I did try to be accurate.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
20 different 380 loads tested, two of them met desired minimum performance (consistent expansion and 12'' penetration)
Shot placement is not a guarantee, better performing ammo is desirable.
Which would I prefer in hand if I had to defend myself, a 380 or a 9mm? I'd prefer a 9mm.

Do these count?

The RIA "Baby Rock" has the 1911 look, but is actually blowback, IIRC. Mine has a poor SA trigger.
View media item 2539
FEG in Hungary used to make decent copies of the Browning High Power. I still have one that I bought decades ago. I also have an aluminum-framed Walther PP copy of theirs in 32acp, and this steel PPK copy in 380acp.

whm1974 said:

What is the deal with slide mounted safeties going the wrong way to put on safe and fire?

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The idea it that instead of swiping down the thumb on the draw you would push your thumb forward through the safety. Just different manual of arms, I wouldn't call it wrong anymore than the tang safety on a Mossberg vs the cross bolt on a 870. Once I practiced with it I actually prefer the slide mount if I'm required to have a safety at all. I find it less likely to accidentally reengage the safety while shooting. This is completely user error but I just don't see me taking the time to train when I'm just going to use a gun without a safety anyways.

CDW4ME said:

Shot placement is not a guarantee, better performing ammo is desirable.

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Nothing is a guarantee, but shot placement trumps magic bullets, every time, magic bullets or not.

And I sometimes wonder how many people paid attention in class to actually know where to target and why. Its just not the same spot on a flat target either, and changes all the time as you/they move.

A big part of the problem I have with the smaller guns, of any caliber, is being able to make those precision type "placement" shots, on-demand, at most realistic distances beyond contact. Its enough of a challenge with the full sized guns.

Ain’t nuthin’ wrong with my Colt or Remington....